Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 12:54:24 GMT -5
Last thing about Flair: he survived a damn plane crash and was told that he might have problems walking again, let alone wrestling. In 1976. He broke his back in three places and returned to wrestling. SIX MONTHS later. And he's still going. If that makes him a "wuss" I really don't know what would make someone tough. I really don't.
As for any issues of credibility, you have champions who got their belts by cashing in title shots against opponents who were laid out or had just wrestled a long, grueling match. If no one complains about how that "devalues" titles, why should someone's gender or size devalue it?
|
|
|
Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Apr 20, 2011 12:54:46 GMT -5
Take Beth Phoenix. In her first title run, she was built as a monster, and Mickie James was the underdog face who finally got the win. If you bring Beth out of the division and into the mens title races, it basically says that the Divas arent good enough and that the bets wrestler has to go elsewhere. Yeah, and? That's only a problem if all the women were pushed to the world title. Wait, what? Youve missed the point. My point is that if you take one diva and push her into the mens titles, youre discrediting everyone left in the divas, and then you have this one woman who sticks out like a sore thumb, because she has won a mens title, and now youre supposed to convince the audience that any divas can be a challenge for a former WWE/World/IC/US champion.
|
|
|
Post by The Great El' PANDA King on Apr 20, 2011 12:55:24 GMT -5
Kong would never go over as a champion. Yes, she's big, but putting her with guys would totally destroy her character. She's only like 5'8/5'9 and would look small compared to most male wrestlers in the ring. She might be wider, but they would look physically more threatening than her.
They need to keep her in the women's division where she looks like a god and is a bigger than life figure.
I also can't see a women's world champion. First off, the WWE frowns on male-on-women violence. Guys can't beat up women. Which means that whoever wins the title, will probably only beat guys in squash matches and then lose the belt in some flukey way. I also don't think the crowd would actually go for it. They've been programmed now to see the women's division as inferior and less respected than when the guy's wrestle; even if someone like Beth Phoenix beat Miz right now, I think half the crowd would cheer and the other half would be on their seats wondering what the hell happened.
Only time this could have worked was when Chyna was destroying fools, but that is long time gone.
|
|
zing
Don Corleone
Talk about him more!
Posts: 1,545
|
Post by zing on Apr 20, 2011 13:20:17 GMT -5
I loved Chyna as IC champ and I'd probably have the mark out to end all mark outs if it happened and was handled well.
Do I think it will ever happen? Nope.
|
|
|
Post by Robbymac on Apr 20, 2011 13:47:18 GMT -5
Very true. A wrestler doesn't have to be jacked up to look like a world champion, but Miz looks like a frat boy parading around with a toy belt. I could totally see a Chyna-esque female being able to beat him and make it look believeable. Someone like Cena losing to a female, not as realistic. Again, Kong is billed at 272 pounds. John Cena is billed at 240 pounds. How is it not believable for Cena to lose? Who would you take in an MMA fight? a 272 pound women recognized as the best female MMA fighter in the world, or a 240 pound man recognized as the best male MMA fighter in the world? I'd take the dude in a first round KO every single time.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Apr 20, 2011 13:50:10 GMT -5
It would kill the world title.
|
|
|
Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Apr 20, 2011 13:51:59 GMT -5
Again, Kong is billed at 272 pounds. John Cena is billed at 240 pounds. How is it not believable for Cena to lose? Who would you take in an MMA fight? a 272 pound women recognized as the best female MMA fighter in the world, or a 240 pound man recognized as the best male MMA fighter in the world? I'd take the dude in a first round KO every single time. This. And Kong isnt exactly 272 (I dont believe that number for a second, like those who claim Shawn Michaels is 220lbs) Brock Lesnar is around 280 on fight night. Now compare him to Kong.
|
|
|
Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 20, 2011 13:52:07 GMT -5
Yeah, and? That's only a problem if all the women were pushed to the world title. Wait, what? Youve missed the point. My point is that if you take one diva and push her into the mens titles, youre discrediting everyone left in the divas, and then you have this one woman who sticks out like a sore thumb, because she has won a mens title, and now youre supposed to convince the audience that any divas can be a challenge for a former WWE/World/IC/US champion. Noi, I get the point. But by that logic if a guy loses the IC title and moves on to challenge for the world title, the IC then becomes meaningless. So everyone should stay in the midcard and never move up.
|
|
|
Post by dlg3000 on Apr 20, 2011 13:53:00 GMT -5
I think it is a great idea, but sadly, will it go over? There are women who are quite capable of winning any championship, as long as she is booked well. The problem is in the booking and how some fans view women's wrestling in general. I am not sure how a TNA or Shimmer fan would generally see women's wrestling, but I am sure that they would see women's wrestling in a more positive light than a WWE fan would. When was the last time TNA's Knockout matches have been referred to as a "piss break"?
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,320
|
Post by The Ichi on Apr 20, 2011 13:53:13 GMT -5
It always amazes me how I can tell who made a certain thread despite the large number of members here.
|
|
|
Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 20, 2011 13:55:27 GMT -5
Who would you take in an MMA fight? a 272 pound women recognized as the best female MMA fighter in the world, or a 240 pound man recognized as the best male MMA fighter in the world? I'd take the dude in a first round KO every single time. This. And Kong isnt exactly 272 (I dont believe that number for a second, like those who claim Shawn Michaels is 220lbs) Brock Lesnar is around 280 on fight night. Now compare him to Kong. I said she was billed at being 272. I never said she was. And the MMA analogy makes no sense. Let's put it this way. A man billed at being 272 pounds would be credible beating John Cena. So what exactly is the problem?
|
|
|
Post by lmagicdancer1 on Apr 20, 2011 14:06:12 GMT -5
As much as I would like to see it, its not the time for a woman to go after the world title. Some factors would have to change from the way they are now. There would have to be more workers in the women's division, enough so that when or if one breaks out to challenge the men, the women's roster wouldn't be weakened as a result. Also, the fans expectations of women wrestlers or divas would have to change, so that they were to challenge for a title then they wouldn't be crapped too badly by the audience.
While I don't think wwe is ready for a female challenger to a men's title, I think some of their stances should change or I think the wwe should pick one and stick to it.
If a male and a female are teaming to together in a tag match where they can only fight those who share their sex then they shouldn't be allowed to pin members of the opposit sex. (see: Vickie,laycool, and dolph)
When a threatening figure enters the ring the divas are expected to scatter. Okay, while this does make some sense, lets at least stay true to the characters, people. When the Hart Dynasty was surrounded by nexus all it took was a nudge by a referee to convince Natalya, a skilled wrestler, to abandoned her family whom she knew was about to be brutalized. They should have at least had her family members to send her away. Elizabeth, a valet not known for her wrestling skill, needed, on more than one occasion, security and referrees to convince her to leave the Macho Man during a beatdown.
When Awesome Kong, or whoever her name is going to be arrives, I hope they either avoid that situation all together or at least have her back away in a way that is true to her character.
I apologize for the long post. Rant Over.
|
|
Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
|
Post by Cronant on Apr 20, 2011 14:10:49 GMT -5
Its like when Rey won the title, he couldn't go back to feuding with Cruisers, Chavo being the exception every once in a while.
So if they did do it with a woman she'd have to basically stay with the big boys, like Rey. And I'm not sure how it would go over.
|
|
|
Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Apr 20, 2011 14:13:26 GMT -5
Wait, what? Youve missed the point. My point is that if you take one diva and push her into the mens titles, youre discrediting everyone left in the divas, and then you have this one woman who sticks out like a sore thumb, because she has won a mens title, and now youre supposed to convince the audience that any divas can be a challenge for a former WWE/World/IC/US champion. Noi, I get the point. But by that logic if a guy loses the IC title and moves on to challenge for the world title, the IC then becomes meaningless. So everyone should stay in the midcard and never move up. The IC division isnt full of 110lb bikini models.
|
|
|
Post by lockedontarget on Apr 20, 2011 14:18:26 GMT -5
How much wrestling have you actually seen? Ric Flair fought sixty minute draws night after night with some of the biggest legends in the business. He fought in bloody, brutal, stiff matches with real old-school stretchers and came out on top often. Exactly. Flair was recognised as one of the best if not the best wrestler in the world at one point. Miz isn't. That's not the point, though. Flair was recognized as a great worker, but when you look at him he doesn't look like a tough guy at all. Some people are saying that you have to look believably tough to be a World Champ, and Flair never has. If Flair can become a believable champ through his work instead of his look, why can't a woman as well? Wrestling isn't MMA. In wrestling, a person doesn't have to be a believable shoot fighter to get over as a believable wrestler. If you take a talented woman like Beth or Kong, and slowly built her up as a tough woman who can dish it out and take it, I see no reason why she wouldn't be able to eventually win the fans over as a believable title threat. It worked for Chyna.
|
|
|
Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 20, 2011 14:27:57 GMT -5
Noi, I get the point. But by that logic if a guy loses the IC title and moves on to challenge for the world title, the IC then becomes meaningless. So everyone should stay in the midcard and never move up. The IC division isnt full of 110lb bikini models. Right, you've lost me again. What difference does that make?
|
|
|
Post by Robbymac on Apr 20, 2011 14:37:12 GMT -5
This. And Kong isnt exactly 272 (I dont believe that number for a second, like those who claim Shawn Michaels is 220lbs) Brock Lesnar is around 280 on fight night. Now compare him to Kong. I said she was billed at being 272. I never said she was. And the MMA analogy makes no sense. Let's put it this way. A man billed at being 272 pounds would be credible beating John Cena. So what exactly is the problem? Because its a physical fact of life. All things being equal a man is stronger than a woman. Are there women who can beat men? Of course. But the best woman vs. the best man is a no contest in virtually every single sport. Forget MMA. Name one sport, at any level, where the top woman can beat the top man. Who you picking? MMA Fight: Christiane Santos (#1 p4p woman) vs. Georges St. Pierre Boxing Match: Layla McCarter (#1 p4p woman) vs. Manny Pacquio Hockey Game: Team Canada Women vs. Team Canada Men Basketball Game: Seattle Storm vs. Los Angeles Lakers Here's some actual verifiable numbers. 100 meter dash Womens World Record: Florence Griffith Joyner 10.49 (1988) Mens World Record: Usain Bolt 9.58 (2009) The last time the mens record was as high as Joyner's current record (which has stood itself for 23 years) was 1921. All of these comparisons are ridiculous for a reason. Is it realistic that a women could hold her own with some men? Yes. Is it realistic that a women could hold the top championship of what is presented as a combat sport. Absolutely not.
|
|
|
Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Apr 20, 2011 14:48:52 GMT -5
The IC division isnt full of 110lb bikini models. Right, you've lost me again. What difference does that make? The bottom post explains it all. Men at the top of the game are physically superior to the women at the top of theirs.
|
|
|
Post by treysarver on Apr 20, 2011 15:09:24 GMT -5
Very true. A wrestler doesn't have to be jacked up to look like a world champion, but Miz looks like a frat boy parading around with a toy belt. I could totally see a Chyna-esque female being able to beat him and make it look believeable. Someone like Cena losing to a female, not as realistic. Again, Kong is billed at 272 pounds. John Cena is billed at 240 pounds. How is it not believable for Cena to lose? So just because a chick is extremely fat it means she can beat up a guy?
|
|
|
Post by snookimaniac on Apr 20, 2011 15:09:56 GMT -5
The bottom post explains it all. Men at the top of the game are physically superior to the women at the top of theirs. And younger men are physically superior to older ones. Yet no one seems to have a problem with Flair winning titles after he hit 40. Big men are physically superior to small men, but its ok for Eddie, Rey and Malenko to beat guys twice their size. Athletes are physically superior to non-althetes yet we have Vince McMahon, Arquette and Russo winning world titles.
|
|