Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 18, 2011 19:55:33 GMT -5
This is not a good move. I'm all for wrestlers having insurance but let's face it, they aren't independent contractors. McMahon should be picking up the tab OR allow them to actually be independent. He's trying to have it both ways and that's bulls*** for the wrestlers. Hey, at least WWE pays their guys enough to cover insurance. And WWE picks up the tab for surgeries. When did TNA Impact Wrestling do that? I would say that only about half of the talent can easily afford insurance. I doubt that any of the FCW talents agree with your statement. The yearly spring cleaning takes place where they fire people who can afford insurance and replace them with people who will struggle to do so on top of travel expenses.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 18, 2011 20:15:56 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry, this isn't a solution.
You don't mandate that independent contractors MUST buy their own insurance.
For guys who can afford it, great, but that doesn't cover a TON of the roster.
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Post by Cyno on May 18, 2011 20:25:18 GMT -5
At first glance, this sounds like a good idea. But it's really WWE trying to look good while continuing to screw over at least half their roster with their shady definition of what, exactly, they see as "independent contractors." Which is "you're an employee of us, really, but we're calling you independent contractors in an ethically dubious (at best) way to avoid a lot of legal requirements and responsibilities."
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Post by Citizen Zero on May 18, 2011 20:26:20 GMT -5
Wait. how does this make him a scumbag? By having more than enough money to take care of the workers who bust their ass to make him rich in the first place and refusing to do so? I mean...I used to work as a freaking cashier for some small-time casino and was treated better than how Vince treats most of his workers.
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Cavs for Mavs Mafia
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Post by Cavs for Mavs Mafia on May 18, 2011 20:37:19 GMT -5
I'm assuming the corporate workers get health insurance, I don't know why Vince can't pay health insurance for the guys who are the face of the company.
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Post by Red Impact on May 18, 2011 21:12:11 GMT -5
I'm assuming the corporate workers get health insurance, I don't know why Vince can't pay health insurance for the guys who are the face of the company. Corporate workers wouldn't have premiums nearly as high as wrestlers. If I had to wager, that'd be what makes insurance hard to come by in wrestling, and why one of the divas said she was flat out refused by insurance companies. Corporate workers aren't guaranteed to injure themselves the way wrestlers are. Unless you work in a job with the same risks, you can't really compare what you get elsewhere and what you can get in wrestling.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,375
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 18, 2011 21:13:53 GMT -5
I'm assuming the corporate workers get health insurance, I don't know why Vince can't pay health insurance for the guys who are the face of the company. It is a way to save money by the WWE. They willingly pay for medical bills, but if the talent have insurance then they don't have to pay nearly as much since insurance will kick in and cover much of those bills. That is well and good, but since the company is not paying for that insurance whatsoever their boasting that they pay all related medical bills is going to ring a lot more hollow to my ears in the future. Granted, if everyone got paid like career midcarders like Matt Hardy did I would not hold it against them, but that simply is not the case and is steadily getting to be less the case over the years. Many of the larger salaries over the years is a byproduct of people's salaries during the Monday Night Wars. As veterans of those days drop off they can offer lower salaries. Baring TNA actually becoming a true competitor, they can continue to do so in the near future especially since their profits are down from their heyday.
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Post by Andrew is Good on May 18, 2011 21:31:59 GMT -5
Well, some wrestlers won't have this problem. Certainly say, Christian could go back to Ontario if he wanted.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,375
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 18, 2011 21:42:11 GMT -5
Well, some wrestlers won't have this problem. Certainly say, Christian could go back to Ontario if he wanted. Yeah, some of them really won't have a problem with these rules, but that is the point. Guys near the top of the card can easily afford this new expense. Based on what a guy like Ken Anderson was paid early in his WWE run (when he was beating former world champions on a semi-regular basis), I believe that many of the younger talents will have more problems with paying and those in development might honestly have to change their lifestyle and possibly their diets to afford it. Same for the divas, even those on the main roster.
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Post by dlg3000 on May 18, 2011 21:55:20 GMT -5
I was under the assumption that because of the risks involved, pro wrestlers would have more difficulty getting insurance. It doesn't help that they don't belong to a union like firefighters, who have an even riskier job.
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Post by chaimwitz on May 18, 2011 23:09:10 GMT -5
wrestlers need a bigger downside guarantee to offset the cost of insurance
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Post by chaimwitz on May 18, 2011 23:12:23 GMT -5
It doesn't help that they don't belong to a union like firefighters, who have an even riskier job. while it sucks they're the only major sport with no union, wrestlers and firefighters do the same job in that they both "rush into the fire" so to speak.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on May 18, 2011 23:18:36 GMT -5
If you expect to keep getting a quality product for free, this is what will happen. Just being conservative and saying insurance for pro-wrestlers would cost 1k a month with 50 active wrestlers that's 1.2 million a year. You know how hard that would be to recoup off PPV revenue alone....
12 PPVs 100k average (which I'm pretty sire below) of buys.
1,200,000 / 100,000 = 12 12 / 12 = 1 WWE could just raise PPV prices 1 stinking dollar to justify the costs to pay for medical insurance. Worst case, it's 2k / month per wrestler.. and that's two bucks.
If they advertised the rate increase for that reason, I cannot imagine a single person who likes wrestling saying it's not worth it. I know I can hardly pay attention anymore after a large amount of deaths of child hood heroes...
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KLRA
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Post by KLRA on May 18, 2011 23:20:32 GMT -5
This just tastes bad in the mouth especially after the UFC ponied up and provided all 350+ workers on their payroll with insurance. If the UFC can afford to do that, why can't the WWE?
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Altabane
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Post by Altabane on May 18, 2011 23:27:05 GMT -5
One day WWE is going to push their luck with this "non-independent, independent contractors" thing too far and it's going to blow up in their faces.
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Post by joebob27 on May 18, 2011 23:31:45 GMT -5
Well, this is why the bean counter is the MVP of WWE right now. Profits will continue! They'll be working high school gyms using a projector for entrance effects, and still turn a profit. lol.
I really don't have an opinion one way or another on the scuzziness of this, because you know what you're getting into when you sign up for this. If you don't, you really weren't paying attention. And the guys who are supposedly working on the main roster with developmental deals must be really hating life now.
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Post by Red Impact on May 18, 2011 23:34:03 GMT -5
This just tastes bad in the mouth especially after the UFC ponied up and provided all 350+ workers on their payroll with insurance. If the UFC can afford to do that, why can't the WWE? UFC's fighters fight, what, 5, 6 times a year? WWE's wrestlers have hundreds of matches a year. So it's a little bit of a different animal.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,375
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 18, 2011 23:37:52 GMT -5
If you expect to keep getting a quality product for free, this is what will happen. Just being conservative and saying insurance for pro-wrestlers would cost 1k a month with 50 active wrestlers that's 1.2 million a year. You know how hard that would be to recoup off PPV revenue alone.... 12 PPVs 100k average (which I'm pretty sire below) of buys. 1,200,000 / 100,000 = 12 12 / 12 = 1 WWE could just raise PPV prices 1 stinking dollar to justify the costs to pay for medical insurance. Worst case, it's 2k / month per wrestler.. and that's two bucks. If they advertised the rate increase for that reason, I cannot imagine a single person who likes wrestling saying it's not worth it. I know I can hardly pay attention anymore after a large amount of deaths of child hood heroes... I get that. The real complaint that I have is that it is required for employment now. All of the workers need insurance, but many are not paid enough to cover it as an expense. That is my complaint. WWE is forcing insurance to cover their expenses so that they don't have to deal with TNA's issue with Daffney, which I get, but that is only fair if everyone can afford it. Listen, it sucks to not have insurance. Trust me, I know. I currently don't have any because putting me on my wife's insurance would wipe out her salary and my own job is as an adjunct faculty member at the local community college, so I don't get decent benefits until I get upgraded to at least an instructor position (I am more likely to get an assistant professor position when the time comes, but that will not be until at least next year). The point is, I can't afford it and will just have to do without it until the proper time comes. If I was forced to get insurance for some reason it would severely compromise my ability to provide for my family.
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Post by Jacob Lee on May 19, 2011 0:42:04 GMT -5
Yeah, Vince is a real jerk for forcing these guys to prepare for a life after wrestling. Let us all bash the evil Vince McMahon as he pays for any injury that takes place in the ring and pays his performers more than the majority of mixed martial artists who compete in a legit sport! Damn him for toning down the in ring product, taking away chair shots and trying to get these guys to spend their money on something that actually matters like health insurance. You know what really disgusts me about this man? The fact that he pays for any talent who's ever been on his roster to go to rehab on his dime...even if they only worked there briefly. THIS MAN IS SATAN!
THE HORROR!
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Altabane
Unicron
Burying People For Free
Posts: 3,155
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Post by Altabane on May 19, 2011 0:47:51 GMT -5
Yeah, Vince is a real jerk for forcing these guys to prepare for a life after wrestling. Let us all bash the evil Vince McMahon as he pays for any injury that takes place in the ring and pays his performers more than the majority of mixed martial artists who compete in a legit sport! Damn him for toning down the in ring product, taking away chair shots and trying to get these guys to spend their money on something that actually matters like health insurance. You know what really disgusts me about this man? The fact that he pays for any talent who's ever been on his roster to go to rehab on his dime...even if they only worked there briefly. THIS MAN IS SATAN! THE HORROR! Did you read the discussion, or did you just see the title and decide to make a "point". Some of those guys will have difficulty paying for the insurance due to their line of work and the pay they receive, seeing as many of them have to pay for their own airfare and hotels.
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