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Post by Red Impact on May 19, 2011 8:54:23 GMT -5
Thing is, if they put them on the company policy, it has the potential of screwing up the premiums for the entire company. 50 or so employees being added to the 580 or so employees they have now might not seem like a big deal, but they're all very-high risk employees. I'm not an actuary or anything and can't crunch any numbers, but you'd think it'd have a potentially profound impact on everyone's rates, and if that is the case it'd suck for everyone on that plan. And on the subject of independent contractors, I know we all think it's an open and shut case, but I have to think there's more to it than any of us know. The IRS isn't exactly lenient when it comes to tax fraud, and surely the WWE has been audited before (at the very least, when they went public the first time). Further, they're actually not the only company that has such requirements of their independent contractors. There are trucking companies that are even stricter than the WWE in how their drivers are treated, and they're classified as independent contractors. So either the IRS is really dropping the ball on multiple companies, or there's more to this law than any of us read on the internet. You make an excellent point, but I think you miss my point as well. I was saying that this is not a big deal if they provided a group policy for them to buy into. Yes, it would likely have an effect on the overall company policy if they used the same policy, but that does not have to be the case. Let me give you an example. My wife works for the local school corporation as a health aide. This corporation has at least three separate insurance group policies. The administration staff takes care of themselves with a very good group policy. The teachers' union takes care of their clients by having negotiated for the corporation to provide them with a very good group policy as well. The support staff, of which my wife is a member, does not get the same support. Their group policy actually sucks in a big way. I am currently uninsured because adding me or my kids to her policy would literally eat up her entire salary. She would, in essence, only be working to provide insurance for the two of us. This sucks, but it illustrates my point. The WWE could maintain their current group policy for their acknowledged employees and a separate group policy for their "independent contractors" that does not affect their other policy. As far as comparing the WWE to shipping companies, shipping companies have to actively compete with each other for truckers' services. No shipping company has the same degree of control of their industry that WWE has. WWE is damn near a monopoly. Good point, they could have a separate group policy just for wrestlers. But then you'd be running into the same problem that wrestlers that individuals would have, they're a certain loss, so the rates are going to be high. Even a group made up of wrestlers would still have extraordinarily high premiums just because the existence of the group doesn't decrease the risk to the insurance company. The only way health insurance would be affordable for most would be to put them with non-wrestlers, increasing those premiums, or still paying for all the work-related stuff out of pocket and having barebones policies that don't cover wrestling-related injuries while they're with the company. And yes, WWE is as close to a monopoly that you can have in wrestling, but that doesn't matter in the discussion of independent contractors vs employees. Of course, closest to a monopoly doesn't mean they are one. They can't hinder other companies from starting up and operating, they just happen to be the biggest dog in their particular branch of entertainment.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,352
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Post by The Ichi on May 19, 2011 14:43:15 GMT -5
I'm pretty amazed at the number of people who hate wrestlers posting in this thread. lol wut.
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Post by Henry Mark on May 19, 2011 14:51:53 GMT -5
I thought that's the way they've always done it? Not quite. Before, it was "If you want insurance, you have to buy it" now it's "If you want to be employed with us, you have to have insurance" The difference is that now WWE is forcing their employee's to buy health insurance. It's a good move on their part This is no different than what my university did a few years ago. While I was a student at Boise State University in my 3rd year, they decided that to attend, you were required medical insurance. No big deal, as typically most students under 25 are still covered by their parents insurance. Problem was, BSU also required that your insurance be equal to or great than the insurance program they were now providing. And who got to decide if it met that qualification? BSU. If you didn't like it or couldn't afford it, all you could do was go somewhere else.
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Post by turkeysandwich on May 19, 2011 15:11:17 GMT -5
As independant contractors, does WWE have to pay the employers share (7.5%, up to the first $100,000 or so in wages) of social security and medcare taxes? I had to pay the employer's half of my damn babysitter in 2010, and considering she was free to work as many domestic jobs as she pleased without my input, I don't see how she was more of an employee than the wrestlers No, the WWE does not have to pay their half of social security and medicare. Since the wrestlers are "Independent Contractors" they are considered self-employed, and will have to pay SE tax on their tax returns. As far as your babysitter, you probably should have filed a 1099 rather than a W-2, since she should not have been considered an employee. I don't think you should have paid her part of SS & Med unless you had an agreement that she was an employee.
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Post by chaimwitz on May 19, 2011 15:56:06 GMT -5
vince is in trouble if a pro wrestler union ever happens. a strike would kill his company
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on May 19, 2011 15:59:28 GMT -5
vince is in trouble if a pro wrestler union ever happens. a strike would kill his company No it wouldn't. Do you have any idea how many starving indy guys would JUMP at the chance to scab if the big boys ever had a strike?
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on May 19, 2011 16:07:20 GMT -5
Wouldn't a Union have to go for all wrestlers and their contracts, thus kinda destroying any sense of in Indy scene?
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on May 19, 2011 16:15:53 GMT -5
vince is in trouble if a pro wrestler union ever happens. a strike would kill his company No it wouldn't. Do you have any idea how many starving indy guys would JUMP at the chance to scab if the big boys ever had a strike? That depends. If the mainstays don't strike, then yeah. However, given the WWE's heavily scripted nature and the criticalness of storylines, just a few stars in major storylines in a strike could throw a major monkey wrench in WWE programming. At best, they could use the scabs as placeholders, but only for a while. This wouldn't be a teacher's strike or anything like that that would be easy to take care of. Remember the writer's strike from a few years ago? It'd be more like that; meaning it would pretty much set all of WWE programming to a standstill.
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Post by Michael Coello on May 19, 2011 16:37:20 GMT -5
vince is in trouble if a pro wrestler union ever happens. a strike would kill his company No it wouldn't. Do you have any idea how many starving indy guys would JUMP at the chance to scab if the big boys ever had a strike? "You want to test me, playah? Well, you're gonna go one-on-one........with Da DIXIELAND DESTROYAH, PLAYAH!" *Teddy Long shuffle*
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Post by Red Impact on May 19, 2011 17:21:54 GMT -5
Wouldn't a Union have to go for all wrestlers and their contracts, thus kinda destroying any sense of in Indy scene? You could have a company-wide one, rather than an industry wide one. Either way, though, there are major drawbacks and hurdles that'd have to be overcome.
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Post by Citizen Zero on May 19, 2011 17:25:57 GMT -5
vince is in trouble if a pro wrestler union ever happens. a strike would kill his company No it wouldn't. Do you have any idea how many starving indy guys would JUMP at the chance to scab if the big boys ever had a strike? Maybe that'd work for low or midcard guys but what if someone like say Cena or Orton are leading the strike? A Wrestlmania headlined by Matt Cross vs. Gypsy Joe'd be a disaster.
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Post by Red Impact on May 19, 2011 17:39:28 GMT -5
No it wouldn't. Do you have any idea how many starving indy guys would JUMP at the chance to scab if the big boys ever had a strike? Maybe that'd work for low or midcard guys but what if someone like say Cena or Orton are leading the strike? A Wrestlmania headlined by Matt Cross vs. Gypsy Joe'd be a disaster. You'd have to get all the main eventers. Just one of them is replaceable. Given how much some of them are company men, that'd be next to impossible.
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Post by joebob27 on May 19, 2011 17:51:32 GMT -5
The only "strike" you're ever going to see is people getting tired of it and not renewing their deals or working on their terms.
You already see that. And it hurts the product to a degree.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,375
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 19, 2011 20:07:42 GMT -5
The only "strike" you're ever going to see is people getting tired of it and not renewing their deals or working on their terms. You already see that. And it hurts the product to a degree. Yeah, Jeff Hardy turning down a big WWE contract, Charlie Haas and Carlito both trying for a long time to get out of their WWE contracts, Matt Hardy struggles to get released last year, and MVP and Kaval both asking out of their contracts despite making perfectly good money for their job all illustrate that point.
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Post by The Deadly Snake on May 19, 2011 20:45:55 GMT -5
What I would love is for this to blow up in Vince's face. He wanted the benefit of insured employees without providing the means for such to many of the employees. By requiring insurance, it might lead to talent signing up with the same agents in order to have their agent negotiate a group policy. This in turn can lead to the group organization of talent that Vince has worked diligently for decades to avoid.In other words, it might lead to some sort of super-agent group, super-management group, or a voluntary wrestler's association? That could really bite him back huge. Uh... I agree, it's possible. Do you think it will happen, though?
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Post by Red Impact on May 19, 2011 21:31:38 GMT -5
What I would love is for this to blow up in Vince's face. He wanted the benefit of insured employees without providing the means for such to many of the employees. By requiring insurance, it might lead to talent signing up with the same agents in order to have their agent negotiate a group policy. This in turn can lead to the group organization of talent that Vince has worked diligently for decades to avoid.In other words, it might lead to some sort of super-agent group, super-management group, or a voluntary wrestler's association? That could really bite him back huge. Uh... I agree, it's possible. Do you think it will happen, though? I don't think they need an agent to put a group together for an insurance company. They just need to present a group. And that could be completely independent of Vince.
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Post by Citizen Zero on May 19, 2011 21:44:04 GMT -5
Maybe that'd work for low or midcard guys but what if someone like say Cena or Orton are leading the strike? A Wrestlmania headlined by Matt Cross vs. Gypsy Joe'd be a disaster. You'd have to get all the main eventers. Just one of them is replaceable. Given how much some of them are company men, that'd be next to impossible. Even guys like Cena or 'Taker?
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Post by Red Impact on May 19, 2011 21:53:37 GMT -5
You'd have to get all the main eventers. Just one of them is replaceable. Given how much some of them are company men, that'd be next to impossible. Even guys like Cena or 'Taker? Taker's not doing anything outside his WM match anymore. Cena on his own is replaceable, it'd hurt some, but it's not hard to do even with the roster they have. Orton is still as, if not more, over than Cena right now, and you could put any number of heels against him. Assuming he doesn't leave, Rey Mysterio can also step into that slot. Cena is big, but there are others who could ME Wrestlemania. Now, if it was Triple H, then you might have something, but no one star would be able to force it.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,381
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Post by segaz on May 21, 2011 7:48:43 GMT -5
I'd hate to be a lower-card talent in WWE right now. Go from poorer to poorest, they'd literally have nothing to scrap together after a week's worth of work. Keep in mind, mid and upper card talents are gonna be okay, and still be able to save some. The lower people however... Their choice. Don't like it, leave. Somethings wrong with you.
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Post by Joe Galt on May 21, 2011 7:55:07 GMT -5
Hey, they have a right to do whatever they want, but that is just a rotten thing to do to your employees. Even Wal-Mart gives their workers insurance, and they treat their employees like garbage. I speak from 11 years of experience. Nothing more than my opinion though.
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