Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 19:47:41 GMT -5
But that's not what's happening. It's the girls who are supposed to be really good who aren't handling bumps well and tearing ACLs walking across the ring while the girls who are called fragile and clueless do plenty of things that could hurt them without getting hurt. Wrestling opened my eyes to how easily injuries can happen. Sometimes it doesn't matter how experienced you are, how good your conditioning is; injuries can happen at any time to anyone. True. My point was that it doesn't make sense to call wrestlers who could be getting hurt but aren't "fragile" while not saying anything about other wrestlers who do get hurt and have injured themselves in ways that would get the "fragile" wrestlers ripped apart by critics, like destroying your knee walking from mid-ring to the corner.
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Post by noleafclover1980 on Jul 5, 2011 19:49:47 GMT -5
The whole model thing bugs me, just because I've seen people write off the newer divas as models and do the whole "They'll never be Trish Stratus". Trish Stratus wasn't really Trish Stratus when she started. She was a model who sucked ass in the ring, but she learned. But she ALWAYS had a distinct character. Big titted slut isn't exactly a unique character either. She was eye candy for awhile.
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theryno665
Grimlock
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Post by theryno665 on Jul 5, 2011 20:14:55 GMT -5
Come on now, she's only 1/2 blonde... But I don't count Kaitlyn. She's still green but she is built and has personality. That goes a long way.
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Red Lion
Dennis Stamp
Put your mask on!
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Post by Red Lion on Jul 5, 2011 20:41:35 GMT -5
But she ALWAYS had a distinct character. Big titted slut isn't exactly a unique character either. She was eye candy for awhile. Compared to the current crop of divas her character had the complexity of a Shakespeare play.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jul 5, 2011 20:41:57 GMT -5
I say make the carpet match the curtains.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Jul 5, 2011 20:52:15 GMT -5
Come on now, she's only 1/2 blonde... But I don't count Kaitlyn. She's still green but she is built and has personality. That goes a long way. Would you like a pig if that had personality to?
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jul 5, 2011 20:58:16 GMT -5
Come on now, she's only 1/2 blonde... But I don't count Kaitlyn. She's still green but she is built and has personality. That goes a long way. Would you like a pig if that had personality to? Yes. Yes I would.
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Post by Jingus on Jul 5, 2011 21:18:10 GMT -5
But that's not what's happening. It's the girls who are supposed to be really good who aren't handling bumps well and tearing ACLs walking across the ring while the girls who are called fragile and clueless do plenty of things that could hurt them without getting hurt. You mentioned two examples of girls getting hurt. The first is Melina... who was, guess what, a bikini model before she got into wrestling. So she doesn't count as an athlete. Beth Phoenix on the other hand was indeed an athlete, a talented amateur wrestler. Yes, she did indeed tear her ACL... which is a common injury which many wrestlers have suffered, even the very best. And I don't want to accuse her of steroid abuse, but that sort of thing does tend to happen more often to roiders, and well just look at her. As for the other half of your argument, you're simply wrong. The other girls do get hurt. Let's look at the roll call: -Michelle McCool, broken sternum and knee injury. -Ashley Massaro, broken leg and hand. -Alicia Fox, shoulder injury (and she's drilled many people right in the head with her sloppy-as-hell "axe kick"). -Kelly Kelly, knee injury. -Maryse, broken nose and multiple knee injuries. -Eve Torres, sprained neck. -Layla, torn ACL and MCL. -Tiffany, broken arm. -Candice Michelle, broke the same collarbone twice. And there have also been several cases of ruptured breast implants with different women. So to claim that the eye-candy divas never get hurt is a total falsehood.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Jul 5, 2011 21:32:03 GMT -5
Big titted slut isn't exactly a unique character either. She was eye candy for awhile. Compared to the current crop of divas her rack gives her a pass.
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Post by potpie on Jul 5, 2011 21:32:14 GMT -5
But that's not what's happening. It's the girls who are supposed to be really good who aren't handling bumps well and tearing ACLs walking across the ring while the girls who are called fragile and clueless do plenty of things that could hurt them without getting hurt. Since I'm not a wrestler myself, I can only give you my guess as to why this is so. Aikido, like pro wrestling, is a partner system. I am an aikido practitioner, and as one of the more experienced in my class, I have to teach a lot- and teaching is good, because more partners= better for you. I also am the uke (the person who takes the technique, usually a fall) 90% of the time for beginners and green belts (those who have just enough knowledge to think they know enough, but they don't). Uke people must take the fall or restraint that the beginner does on you. Otherwise, they cannot learn. It makes no sense to put two beginners together because you have to learn from your partner. I imagine the same is true for wrestling, no? But, inevitably, I as a teacher will be paired up with someone who a) is a power-hungry jackass who wants to hurt me because he/she thinks it's cool, b) does NOT want to reciprocate uke-ing for me and will not take the fall (he/she will pull me down as he/she does down), or c) doesn't practice regularly or takes a butt-load of time off in between classes and still thinks he/she is can go full-speed, even though he/she is out of shape. What does this lead to? I get hurt. I have never been injured in self-defense, in a slip and fall, in getting thrown by more experienced people. NEVER. I have gotten hurt probably 5 times in 10 years, always at the hands of idiots who had no clue what they were doing, and tried a move they were clearly not ready for. THAT is why veteran wrestlers get hurt. It's an inevitability when you have to carry 99% of a match that they will get hurt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 21:50:24 GMT -5
Maryse's broken nose was a kayfabe injury. She also actually only had one knee injury that was not self-inflicted, but yes, it did force her to miss time. Kelly has never missed any time and the same goes for Eve, so whatever injures they've suffered have been minor. Alicia's supposed shoulder injury from the Kharma attack was either very minor and possibly non-existent as she was back in the ring the weekend after it happened.
McCool suffered a ton of injures, but was she ever considered to be one of those "fragile" girls? She got hurt enough to deserve it, but was she looked at that way? Ashley, I'll give you. Unlike an Alicia Fox, who people keep insisting is going to hurt herself and maybe someone else any day now, Ashley actually did hurt herself and multiple times, too.
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Post by Bishblast on Jul 5, 2011 21:58:15 GMT -5
If Kaitlyn learned how to work, she could be a pretty big star. Her look is... unique, but attractive.
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Post by JACK on Jul 5, 2011 21:59:55 GMT -5
Sprained neck? lol Eve's never been injured.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 22:00:05 GMT -5
But where is this happening with these model Divas? In the examples I gave with Melina and Beth Phoenix, two of the "wrestler" girls, they tore their ACLs and were out for months while simply walking, not doing a move or taking a bump. They were 100% self-inflicted injuries.
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Post by potpie on Jul 5, 2011 22:44:52 GMT -5
But where is this happening with these model Divas? In the examples I gave with Melina and Beth Phoenix, two of the "wrestler" girls, they tore their ACLs and were out for months while simply walking, not doing a move or taking a bump. They were 100% self-inflicted injuries. ACL is NOT a "self-inflicted" injury. It's a stress-related injury. Understand this- you don't need a serious injury to be hurt. Things add up. What I was trying to argue was that models don't get hurt because they aren't put in that position to be- other people are. They also don't wrestle as much, nor do they have as long a career as guys too. I'm not sure what you are arguing other that you're offended that people go after models for being bad wrestlers.
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Post by Jingus on Jul 5, 2011 23:03:08 GMT -5
Just because someone "didn't miss any time" doesn't mean the injury didn't happen. The most serious injuries are always freak accidents, like when John Cena ripped his own chest in half on a botched hiptoss. Those are the ones that make the headlines, since they require surgery. But practically everyone works with a variety of long-term nagging little problems. Injuries are an inevitable part of wrestling. I've never known a worker who never got hurt. And many of the Diva's injuries tend to come from sheer sloppiness, botching moves in a fashion which the men never do. That's what happens when you hire models instead of athletes. The men are in pain because they're working hard and pushing themselves too much. The women are in pain because half the female roster are barely competent at protecting their opponents and themselves. Sprained neck? lol Eve's never been injured. I admit, I totally guessed on the "sprained neck". Eve has some spinal problems, but the official diagnosis never got announced publicly, so I made up a condition which seemed likely. Whatever it is, she had to seek medical help for it. Not surgical, but some kind of therapy to relieve her pain. And thank you for that summary, potpie. I've got a wee bit of wrestling experience and a lot of theoretical knowledge, but you clearly have a lot of hands-on athletic grappling experience and I appreciate you backing me up and explaining how this stuff works.
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BigWill
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Post by BigWill on Jul 5, 2011 23:10:15 GMT -5
-Alicia Fox, shoulder injury (and she's drilled many people right in the head with her sloppy-as-hell "axe kick"). I wish people would stop with this Alicia Fox dangerous axe kick thing. The woman has done the move for years and has never injured a single person with it. No need to make up lies just to prove your dislike of a superstar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 23:28:19 GMT -5
But where is this happening with these model Divas? In the examples I gave with Melina and Beth Phoenix, two of the "wrestler" girls, they tore their ACLs and were out for months while simply walking, not doing a move or taking a bump. They were 100% self-inflicted injuries. ACL is NOT a "self-inflicted" injury. It's a stress-related injury. Understand this- you don't need a serious injury to be hurt. Things add up. What I was trying to argue was that models don't get hurt because they aren't put in that position to be- other people are. They also don't wrestle as much, nor do they have as long a career as guys too. I'm not sure what you are arguing other that you're offended that people go after models for being bad wrestlers. Perhaps I should have been more clear. Their ACL injuries were not the fault of anyone else. They didn't get hurt by an opponent screwing up a spot. And yeah, I am offended if someone is called "fragile" or "dangerous in the ring" when they have little-to-no history of significant injuries or hurting opponents.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BigWill on Jul 5, 2011 23:30:27 GMT -5
Has she ever put a person in the hospital with the axe kick? Not to my knowledge, no. But I know that there sure have been plenty of girls waking up with headaches or sore necks or bruised backs or black eyes because of that move. You aren't showing me anything. It looks like a perfectly good finisher. The fact that it looks dangerous yet has never injured anyone proves that. And give me a single shread of evidence that she ever injured a diva. You make it sound like you personally know the divas, and they themselves told you that Fox hurt them. And who in the WWE hits their finisher exactly the same every time? That would be boring as hell.
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Post by FailedGimmick on Jul 5, 2011 23:49:16 GMT -5
I fail to see how someone selling the effects if another person's finisher proves the move is dangerous.
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