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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Aug 16, 2011 20:50:16 GMT -5
Dude, you just named ONE wrestler when there were PLENTY who could have been champion. As for Booker T he ended up being WORLD Champ and not WWE champ. Why not give him a WWE tittle reign? Ahmed and Bobby werent the only black wrestlers they've had so why just focus on them? What about Shelton? Hell what about Truth right now?! I hate to play the race card here, but the evidence is obvious... cant argue with that. Read what I posted, I explained just about the majority of the black wrestlers in th history of the WWE, I could still gone on about D'lo if you wanted me too. Or never could get a reaction Rodney Mack but I pointed out the guys who where being built at one time a star. Shelton was never that over and never had anything else but althetic ablity. He was able to wrestle a great in ring match like countless other guys. But that ALL he could do. Fans never went Main Event nuts for the guy. He didn't have ANY mic skills. Or did anything to work the crowd over. The WWE tried to get him over. With wins over HHH and a long I-C title run. Yet he still couldn't get over that hump. R-Truth NOW could be. But he only been a heel for three months. Before that noway he could have been. Why because he was this dancing bad rapping face that nobody could take seriously. But the thing is with Punk selling out T shirts and getting big pops. Cena being the golden child. Del Rio being pushed hard since he got there. It's hard for R-Truth to beable to get the spot. Maybe they could have him win over Cena. But that was just one match. E-Truth is better off on Smackdown. Because at less after Christian feud with Orton. He be perfect to go against. Smackdown needs more challengers. They have the weak ME picture. Raw had to many hot acts.
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JoDaNa1281
Crow T. Robot
Jackie Daytona, Regular Human Bartender. #BLM
Posts: 40,485
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Aug 16, 2011 21:14:00 GMT -5
Because people like that don't win championships.
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Post by Johnny Truant on Aug 16, 2011 21:19:28 GMT -5
I actually can't think of a single black guy outside of Booker and the Rock who I would have given the title to. This, with the exception of Burke.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 16, 2011 21:22:20 GMT -5
Assuming my count is right, there have been 50 different wrestlers that have held the WHC and/or WWE belts. Two of them were black, which makes 4 percent. According to the US Census Bureau, 12.6 percent of the population in the US is black. But what percentage of PRO WRESTLERS are/were black? Comparing the general population means nothing. And even black wrestlers are statistically underrepresented as champions, all you've done is prove correlation. To be racism, you have to demonstrate that they haven't been champions specifically because they're black. Whoa whoa whoa, hold on there. Someone asked for data and I spent a few minutes finding it, nothing more. As for finding what percentage of all pro wrestlers or black, even if we restricted it to WWE since, say, the 80's, that'd probably take months to calculate and would still be highly prone to errors. And really, that wouldn't really tell the whole story either. But there's probably a lot better way of analyzing it statistically.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2011 21:24:02 GMT -5
I dont get why they didnt give JYD a run
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Post by Crusty Ruffles on Aug 16, 2011 21:43:16 GMT -5
I dont get why they didnt give JYD a run A little thing called Hulkamania got in the way of that one. If Vince McMahon can make money from it, he will do it. You could be bright orange and if you have "it" and are getting over, you'll get the strap or at least A strap. I don't see what the big deal is with people being midcarders like it's something bad. Shelton got good tag team and singles runs for the better part of a decade. Ron Simmons (once he lost the awful headgear and Black Panther nonsense) got an amazingly long run as part of the APA. I just don't see why they *have* to be world champion to be considered successful. Ahmed Johnson, D'Lo, The Godfather, Elijah Burke, Big Daddy V, The Boogeyman, even Teddy Long etc ALL got good runs. Some had titles, some didn't, and this is by no means a complete list but they all had good pushes. You can even go back to Bad News Allen getting at least a prominent midcard spot. Eh, sure, Vince f***ed him but I seriously doubt it was because he was black. Hell, he got pushed with a black power gimmick. The WWE has missed the boat with all races and both genders. It happens. If a non-white person had never even gotten a whiff of any title or a decent push, then maybe I'd agree. It's not racism. It's lack of that "It factor" you want to carry on as the face of your promotion. And, in conclusion:
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giffyjames
Bubba Ho-Tep
we'll be back!!
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Post by giffyjames on Aug 16, 2011 21:47:33 GMT -5
i HATE when someone says "ok kid, sorry but u dont have "it" " and then someone white comes along with no personality, nothing that stands out about them and the title is thrown their direction numerous times.
hell even DAVID ARQUETTE was a world champion which makes no f***ing sense
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 16, 2011 21:47:49 GMT -5
For starters there is a lot more white guys in Wrestling than black guys, so that's a reason right there. Fixed.
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giffyjames
Bubba Ho-Tep
we'll be back!!
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Post by giffyjames on Aug 16, 2011 21:51:38 GMT -5
I dont get why they didnt give JYD a run A little thing called Hulkamania got in the way of that one. If Vince McMahon can make money from it, he will do it. You could be bright orange and if you have "it" and are getting over, you'll get the strap or at least A strap. I don't see what the big deal is with people being midcarders like it's something bad. Shelton got good tag team and singles runs for the better part of a decade. Ron Simmons (once he lost the awful headgear and Black Panther nonsense) got an amazingly long run as part of the APA. I just don't see why they *have* to be world champion to be considered successful. Ahmed Johnson, D'Lo, The Godfather, Elijah Burke, Big Daddy V, The Boogeyman, even Teddy Long etc ALL got good runs. Some had titles, some didn't, and this is by no means a complete list but they all had good pushes. You can even go back to Bad News Allen getting at least a prominent midcard spot. Eh, sure, Vince f***ed him but I seriously doubt it was because he was black. Hell, he got pushed with a black power gimmick. The WWE has missed the boat with all races and both genders. It happens. If a non-white person had never even gotten a whiff of any title or a decent push, then maybe I'd agree. It's not racism. It's lack of that "It factor" you want to carry on as the face of your promotion. And, in conclusion: boogeyman had charisma oozing out of his pores, vince dropped the ball
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Post by CMWaters on Aug 16, 2011 21:56:46 GMT -5
boogeyman had charisma oozing out of his pores, vince dropped the ball If Morrison hadn't gotten welnessed, Boogeyman would have faced Morrison for the ECW Title insted of Punk finally winning it. At least that's according to an article from a former WWE employee shortly after Money in the Bank this year.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 16, 2011 21:59:31 GMT -5
i HATE when someone says "ok kid, sorry but u dont have "it" " and then someone white comes along with no personality, nothing that stands out about them and the title is thrown their direction numerous times. hell even DAVID ARQUETTE was a world champion which makes no f***ing sense David Arquette didn't win the WWE title, so that's not relevant at all. And no, it made no sense, a lot of things WCW did at the end made no sense, David Arquette believed it made no sense. I really don't get the argument you're making here.
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giffyjames
Bubba Ho-Tep
we'll be back!!
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Post by giffyjames on Aug 16, 2011 22:04:07 GMT -5
i HATE when someone says "ok kid, sorry but u dont have "it" " and then someone white comes along with no personality, nothing that stands out about them and the title is thrown their direction numerous times. hell even DAVID ARQUETTE was a world champion which makes no f***ing sense David Arquette didn't win the WWE title, so that's not relevant at all. And no, it made no sense, a lot of things WCW did at the end made no sense, David Arquette believed it made no sense. I really don't get the argument you're making here. ok i'll say it a little better. DAVID ARQUETTE WON THE BIG GOLD. u know that title wwe is using right now? yes that one. so with that done it kinda cemented the fact pro wrestling was saying that a white actor who knows nothing of pro wrestling is better than the best black guy in pro wrestling. whoever booked it needs to be shot. im white and i was floored with that angle. made no sense.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 16, 2011 22:08:38 GMT -5
And I ask, so what? I don't understand what it has to do with the argument.
This is a thread about WWE's title history, and WWE didn't give David Arquette the belt. WCW did. They also gave Booker T the title 5 times. It made no sense for them to give Arquette the belt, everyone knew it made no sense, they wanted to promote Ready to Rumble, and it was completely stupid. But it has nothing to do with WWE except that it was another example of stupid crap WCW was doing near the end.
It doesn't say anything of importance, it doesn't say Arquette was better than Booker T, it was just another example of something stupid that WCW did.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Aug 16, 2011 22:08:50 GMT -5
I agree that Boogeyman had a ton of charisma. I would NEVER give him a world title though. He improved in the ring over time, but he was no where near good enough to be put in main events. He was perfect for a comedy character. He was a fun, entertaining version of Papa Shango.
It is correct that it was extremely stupid to put the title on David Arquette. You have Tony Schiavone and Vince Russo to thank for that one. WCW did produce two black WCW Champions for the record. I have already admitted that I think Simmons winning was a response to allegations of racism that were aimed at WCW at the time. Some people argue this also led to Booker T. winning (there was a lawsuit at the time accusing them of racism), but I think Russo and WCW felt Booker deserved it and giving him the title could help the company.
I still maintain this point: WWE once made The Rock the face of the company. They named a PPV after him and named a TV show after him. He was everywhere and on everything. He shared this spot with Austin when Austin wasn't injured, but you can also say that Austin shared it with him. There were times when the Rock was THE MAN in WWE.
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Post by "Dashing" Dr.VonPhoenix on Aug 16, 2011 23:04:23 GMT -5
i HATE when someone says "ok kid, sorry but u dont have "it" " and then someone white comes along with no personality, nothing that stands out about them and the title is thrown their direction numerous times. Orton, right? Yeah, I know, but he's got family connections. Cena? Can't really say that. His early Dr. of Thuganomics stuff was great, IMO. The Rock was a no brainer. Booker T was a no brainer (even though that WM19 match SHOULD have been his first reign), MVP was on his way there, but got stopped. Truth has his criminal record working against him for certain international tours, Faarooq is too old now but was a great champ in WCW, IMO. Ahmed Johnson got caught up with demons, D'lo Brown had the Droz incident, Mabel... hmmm... okay, actually there's no reason he shouldn't have had at least one reign. He was a big nasty beast and this is pro wrestling. Plus, I've never seen someone else that big do an enzuguri on a regular basis. But he wasn't dashing, so apparently, f*** him. ;D Boogeyman was midcard from the start, Kama had to stop pimpin', Bad News Brown was never going to go over Hogan, but neither was anyone else at that time (including JYD). This also goes for Koko B. Ware. Virgil... well... yeah... Shelton Benjamin wasn't charismatic enough. The Human Tornado is now retired, New Jack is insane, Mark Henry just may get it actually... I wouldn't be surprised. Okay, that's a lot of people, and I'm nowhere near done, but the point is that I think luck plays a big part in who makes it to the top and whop doesn't. If I made a list of white or hispanic guys that didn't make it as far as they should have, it would be pretty long, too. The thing is, black people are a minority in pro wrestling. There just aren't as many as there are white guys and there are a TON of people of other races who have never held titles either. I'm not saying racism is never a factor, because I'm certain that a lot of the time it is, but by the numbers, it's just harder to pull main event gold out of the black pool because said pool is a bit more shallow than we might think. So basically, they're rare because it's hard to get there and there aren't that many that the company would consider serious contenders. Oh... and there's no excuse for David Arquette above ANYBODY. ANYBODY.
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Post by DSR on Aug 17, 2011 0:07:37 GMT -5
Clearly WCW should've put their World Title on Norman Smiley. I would've marked. I have nothing of value to add.
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MegaMan2001
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Post by MegaMan2001 on Aug 17, 2011 0:16:06 GMT -5
I'm gonna put this as simply as I can...
They don't draw. I'm sorry, but they don't. Despite the popularity of black people with tweens and teenagers, they just don't draw in wrestling. Just about the only argument to this is Booker T and he is arguably not even a first ballot hall of famer.
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Post by noleafclover1980 on Aug 17, 2011 0:16:44 GMT -5
David Arquette didn't win the WWE title, so that's not relevant at all. And no, it made no sense, a lot of things WCW did at the end made no sense, David Arquette believed it made no sense. I really don't get the argument you're making here. ok i'll say it a little better. DAVID ARQUETTE WON THE BIG GOLD. u know that title wwe is using right now? yes that one. so with that done it kinda cemented the fact pro wrestling was saying that a white actor who knows nothing of pro wrestling is better than the best black guy in pro wrestling. whoever booked it needs to be shot. im white and i was floored with that angle. made no sense. To say Arquette knew NOTHING of pro-wrestling is a bit unfair. He was a huge fan, and even HE told them it was a bad idea. They insisted it'd be cool, and he went along with it, donating everything WCW paid him for the appearances to charity.
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sbia
AC Slater
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Post by sbia on Aug 17, 2011 0:31:06 GMT -5
I'm gonna put this as simply as I can... They don't draw. I'm sorry, but they don't. Despite the popularity of black people with tweens and teenagers, they just don't draw in wrestling. Just about the only argument to this is Booker T and he is arguably not even a first ballot hall of famer. Bradshaw was a draw? Swagger was a draw? And where's your evidence that black guys don't "draw"?
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Aug 17, 2011 0:36:27 GMT -5
Also, it's a culture thing. Wrestling is bigger amongst white kids. Like Nascar and country music. It's stereotyping to say all great boxers are black but its not to observe that more blacks train seriously to be boxers than white guys. Go to almost any major wrestling schools page and look at those enrolled. These are places that take peoples money, so they won't turn someone away for race. Most are overly skinny or overly fat white kids, not all but a lot more than there are black kids.
Some people say rap music is racist. Sure Eminem is a huge counterpoint to the white guys can't rap argument, but did he really break any walls down? Why aren't there a plethora of white rappers now? Rappers and their producers have no problem selling out, so if someone can connect to their audience they will sign them and push their music out. The problem is you can't just make someone connect to fill a quota.
Yes they CAN sign and push anybody, but truly greats will make their way to the top no matter what.
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