smoot
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 296
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Post by smoot on Aug 14, 2011 22:27:23 GMT -5
Ace: there was a bit in the Wrestlemania DVD where some of the guys were saying that certain venues have acoustics that muffle crowd response. Maybe this is one of those? (Edge was, particularly, saying that there was a TLC match where everyone was just killing themselves because they thought the crowd didn't care at all.)
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Aug 14, 2011 22:28:54 GMT -5
Ace: there was a bit in the Wrestlemania DVD where some of the guys were saying that certain venues have acoustics that muffle crowd response. Maybe this is one of those? (Edge was, particularly, saying that there was a TLC match where everyone was just killing themselves because they thought the crowd didn't care at all.) I've seen enough Laker games & WWE events to know 100% certain that the Staples Center doesn't muffle anything.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
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Post by Viva on Aug 14, 2011 22:29:48 GMT -5
If the venting is just stupidity, yes. It does. No one wants to hear people cry like babies. You're adults. Articulate your feelings like them. "THIS SUCKS CUZ I DONT LIKE IT WAH WAH WAH. DEL RIO IS STALE CHAMP WAHHHH." I'd call you out if you were talking about ANYTHING. Wrestling doesn't get an exemption. Me? I guess you have no idea how I responded to the end of the PPV. Not that I'm surprised... that's what happens when you lump a bunch of people into a group and yell at them collectively. You're an adult, too, Viva, and adulthood means being tolerant of other people's opinions even when they don't match up with your own. I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold the opinion, for example, that this ending was overbooked. Do you find that to be an unreasonable/childish/"stupid" position? Why? Can WWE never overbook an ending? I notice, for example, that you haven't called out the people who said that they were happy Del Rio won because they're Del Rio marks, and that the people who are unhappy are just unhappy because Punk lost. That seems every bit as banal as the complaints you're supposedly upset about. Why aren't you yelling at them? The only difference between those posters and the ones you're yelling at seems to be that they agree with what WWE did. It's a shame if you're permitted to be unsophisticated in your reactions as long as your opinion is the right one, but you're flame-worthy if your opinion happens to be negative. It's possible to like this ending, and it's possible to dislike it. I don't see that inarticulate discussion has been limited to those who disliked the ending, nor do I see a special level of intelligence and maturity amongst those who liked it. At some point, I think it's important to realize that you may hold an opinion, you may hold it strongly and think it's totally right, but that doesn't mean someone else is wrong or stupid or childish if they don't hold that same opinion. We ARE adults here. And sometimes that means you gotta live and let live. 'You', in this case, is pretty obviously a general definition of the nay-sayers in this thread. I understand that your argument is 'don't lump us all together.' but I didn't. So, we can just move on from here because it's clear you disagree, and that's fine. Because again, my problem isn't disliking the ending. It's acting like a whiner about it. 'Del Rio is a stale champion.' 'Way to f*** up what I have no clue about, WWE.' 'Once again WWE wimps out and fails to do something different.' All things that have been said in this thread by people who are wholly unqualified to make such statements. It's just random, unnecessary negativity. They don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, next Monday, or the Monday after. Do they have the right to say it? Yes. But I also have the right to call them out for being irrationally negative for really no other reason than because it didn't go their way.
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triplethreatmark
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Posts: 14,074
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Post by triplethreatmark on Aug 14, 2011 22:30:21 GMT -5
Ace: there was a bit in the Wrestlemania DVD where some of the guys were saying that certain venues have acoustics that muffle crowd response. Maybe this is one of those? (Edge was, particularly, saying that there was a TLC match where everyone was just killing themselves because they thought the crowd didn't care at all.) I've seen enough Laker games & WWE events to know 100% certain that the Staples Center doesn't muffle anything. At least we're not quiet for Kings games [/Kings homerism]
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Aug 14, 2011 22:30:41 GMT -5
Well, everyone wanted something unpredictable... $10 says no one guessed "Kevin Nash run in leads to ADR cash in" going into Summer Slam lol I'm gonna take a "lets see where this goes" approach. At the very least that means it's gonna be a crazy ass Raw I go to tomorrow. Yeah, I mean, for the time time being it's going to make me watch Raw. Interesting about it is it didn't turn Punk from his Tweener status or Cena from his face status... despite what some people here wanted.
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,145
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Post by Paco on Aug 14, 2011 22:30:57 GMT -5
Ace: there was a bit in the Wrestlemania DVD where some of the guys were saying that certain venues have acoustics that muffle crowd response. Maybe this is one of those? (Edge was, particularly, saying that there was a TLC match where everyone was just killing themselves because they thought the crowd didn't care at all.) That TLC was ManiaX7 which was at the Astrodome in Houston. Too much space at Dome shows (like Mania)...crowd noise doesn't reach the wrestlers in the ring...or our TV sets apparently. LA is just bad for shows. I live here...it's way too relaxed. Not a rowdy bunch.
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Post by Ace Ventura on Aug 14, 2011 22:31:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the enlightenment Smoot!
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smoot
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 296
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Post by smoot on Aug 14, 2011 22:31:41 GMT -5
I've seen enough Laker games & WWE events to know 100% certain that the Staples Center doesn't muffle anything. Okay then- backup theory: maybe the crowd just wasn't into anything besides the ME, and were more confused than moved by the ending?
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Post by The Papers on Aug 14, 2011 22:32:14 GMT -5
Where was J.R.? Cole was insufferable
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Post by flatsdomino on Aug 14, 2011 22:34:04 GMT -5
Hi 5. People are just upset because Punk isn't the champ. Give me a break, that was a brutal end of the show. Don't you think the crowd reaction to BOTH finishes said a volume? Unfortunately this place is full of people will lap up ANYTHING the WWE does and say it was great. They had a ME with two guys who got massive mixed heat which gives you infinite booking potential. They woke up a crowd that was in a coma, or a crowd that was only there to see that one match. Then you do that. It's like having Austin vs. HBK at WM14, let's say there's a MITB back then, and then Austin goes over in a fishy fashion (which he did IRL), but wait, HERE COMES SAVIO VEGA! HE'S WHALING ON AUSTIN! OH MY! AND NOW HERE COMES KEN SHAMROCK WITH THE MITB! HE'S THE NEW CHAMPION! WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED HERE? Actually, if you swap Savio Vega for, say, Randy Savage and swap Shamrock for Owen, then you actually have the finish from tonight.
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Post by Piccolo on Aug 14, 2011 22:34:25 GMT -5
Me? I guess you have no idea how I responded to the end of the PPV. Not that I'm surprised... that's what happens when you lump a bunch of people into a group and yell at them collectively. You're an adult, too, Viva, and adulthood means being tolerant of other people's opinions even when they don't match up with your own. I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold the opinion, for example, that this ending was overbooked. Do you find that to be an unreasonable/childish/"stupid" position? Why? Can WWE never overbook an ending? I notice, for example, that you haven't called out the people who said that they were happy Del Rio won because they're Del Rio marks, and that the people who are unhappy are just unhappy because Punk lost. That seems every bit as banal as the complaints you're supposedly upset about. Why aren't you yelling at them? The only difference between those posters and the ones you're yelling at seems to be that they agree with what WWE did. It's a shame if you're permitted to be unsophisticated in your reactions as long as your opinion is the right one, but you're flame-worthy if your opinion happens to be negative. It's possible to like this ending, and it's possible to dislike it. I don't see that inarticulate discussion has been limited to those who disliked the ending, nor do I see a special level of intelligence and maturity amongst those who liked it. At some point, I think it's important to realize that you may hold an opinion, you may hold it strongly and think it's totally right, but that doesn't mean someone else is wrong or stupid or childish if they don't hold that same opinion. We ARE adults here. And sometimes that means you gotta live and let live. 'You', in this case, is pretty obviously a general definition of the nay-sayers in this thread. I understand that your argument is 'don't lump us all together.' but I didn't. So, we can just move on from here because it's clear you disagree, and that's fine. Because again, my problem isn't disliking the ending. It's acting like a whiner about it. 'Del Rio is a stale champion.' 'Way to f*** up what I have no clue about, WWE.' 'Once again WWE wimps out and fails to do something different.' All things that have been said in this thread by people who are wholly unqualified to make such statements. It's just random, unnecessary negativity. They don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, next Monday, or the Monday after. Do they have the right to say it? Yes. But I also have the right to call them out for being irrationally negative for really no other reason than because it didn't go their way. Unqualified. That's an amazing word to use for entertainment discussion. What are your qualifications, if I might ask, for judging the qualifications of others to react to the ending of a wrestling match?
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Post by joebob27 on Aug 14, 2011 22:34:30 GMT -5
I've seen enough Laker games & WWE events to know 100% certain that the Staples Center doesn't muffle anything. Okay then- backup theory: maybe the crowd just wasn't into anything besides the ME, and were more confused than moved by the ending? Crowd was extremely hot for the ME compared to their earlier standards. They did have a solid lead-in, though, instead of the usual Diva piss-break. Crowd mostly died with the finish of the 1st match and was completely dead for the finish of the 2nd "match". Bottom line, in that building, they total shit the bed at the end of the show. I guess we'll see if that carries over to elsewhere.
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Ginger Beer Man
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Post by Ginger Beer Man on Aug 14, 2011 22:34:35 GMT -5
I didn't say good or bad booking I said that why crap on it if you have no idea where it's going? If the lack of payoff bothers you then you clearly didn't watch the Attitude era. Sometimes a "failed" ending builds to a bigger payoff at the next event. I hate this whole instant reward mentality the IWC has. There is no reason to not give an angle a chance. It's the hottest thing they've done in years, you don't blow it off like that. The Cena/Punk dynamic and the crowd heat it drew was awesome. So you either continue it or you blow it off properly with a change to one of the characters. It was bad. People bitch about Dusty finishes throughout history, well this might be the first time they've ever given you TWO in what amounts to the same match. Hell, as pointed out they even warped the MITB rules again to make it even more Dusty finishier. This is an honest question: How do you go from a scenario where you have two guys that are hugely over and generate reactions, pro, con, whatever, put them into one of the more high profile feuds you've done in years, have a memorable match with a finish, book a rematch, and have it end with a foot on the rope finish, coupled with a mystery Kevin Nash attack and an MITB cashin by a guy who is in a hopeless position? It wouldn't make sense if it was Bryan, either, so it's not say prefering one over the other. The feud is over because it's impossible for it to continue. That's just silly and an awful way to end it. Punk wins the feud in an inconclusive way and goofyness ensues. Neither turns. Dude...KEEP...WATCHING. If it goes nowhere then, I will agree with you but none of us know anything about this direction. I would be just as disappointed as you if this doesn't have the legs and the impact like the initial birth of the angle gave. Seriously, nothing is dead yet.
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amaron
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I yam what I yam.
Posts: 2,212
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Post by amaron on Aug 14, 2011 22:34:36 GMT -5
Replaced by Booker at the last minute apparently. JR was doing Twitter coverage.
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Post by joebob27 on Aug 14, 2011 22:35:41 GMT -5
'You', in this case, is pretty obviously a general definition of the nay-sayers in this thread. I understand that your argument is 'don't lump us all together.' but I didn't. So, we can just move on from here because it's clear you disagree, and that's fine. Because again, my problem isn't disliking the ending. It's acting like a whiner about it. 'Del Rio is a stale champion.' 'Way to f*** up what I have no clue about, WWE.' 'Once again WWE wimps out and fails to do something different.' All things that have been said in this thread by people who are wholly unqualified to make such statements. It's just random, unnecessary negativity. They don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, next Monday, or the Monday after. Do they have the right to say it? Yes. But I also have the right to call them out for being irrationally negative for really no other reason than because it didn't go their way. Unqualified. That's an amazing word to use for entertainment discussion. What are your qualifications, if I might ask, for judging the qualifications of others to react to the ending of a wrestling match? I think he had a psychotic break in the GDT when Christian lost, too, which makes it funny, since that was a perfectly logical blow-off to a feud between a heel and a face. Face beats up heel, wins. Never seen that one before.
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Post by fizzeewater on Aug 14, 2011 22:37:15 GMT -5
In my post, I never mentioned "booking" except saying the finish was overbooked, which to me it seemed to be. But in terms of terminology that still counts as being part of the match. That was really my only problem with the match. Other than that, I enjoyed it. Honestly, who are you to decide what qualifies as 'overbooked'? That's my problem with that whole attitude. You don't book a fed. You don't know what's in store ahead. What gives you the right, or the experience even, to decide that the match was overbooked? I get that you're allowed to have your opinion, but it's like, why do you guys watch the product if all you're going to do is pick it apart? Is it fun to have a hate-hate relationship with a form of entertainment? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass in any way shape or form, but after everything that happens, we have a bevy of people that just absolutely crap on it. There's no pleasing everybody, obviously, but to hear stuff like "WOW NOW WE GET BORING STALE DEL RIO CHAMPION." Like, what? I get that you're allowed to have an opinion, but it's like why do you even post on this message board if all you're going to do is complain about the other posters. Is it fun to have a hate-hate relationship with a message board? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass in any way shape or form, but after everything that is posted, we have a guy who just absolutely craps on it.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Aug 14, 2011 22:38:21 GMT -5
'You', in this case, is pretty obviously a general definition of the nay-sayers in this thread. I understand that your argument is 'don't lump us all together.' but I didn't. So, we can just move on from here because it's clear you disagree, and that's fine. Because again, my problem isn't disliking the ending. It's acting like a whiner about it. 'Del Rio is a stale champion.' 'Way to f*** up what I have no clue about, WWE.' 'Once again WWE wimps out and fails to do something different.' All things that have been said in this thread by people who are wholly unqualified to make such statements. It's just random, unnecessary negativity. They don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, next Monday, or the Monday after. Do they have the right to say it? Yes. But I also have the right to call them out for being irrationally negative for really no other reason than because it didn't go their way. Unqualified. That's an amazing word to use for entertainment discussion. What are your qualifications, if I might ask, for judging the qualifications of others to react to the ending of a wrestling match? I never said I was qualified. I'm not the one bitching either.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Aug 14, 2011 22:39:07 GMT -5
Honestly, who are you to decide what qualifies as 'overbooked'? That's my problem with that whole attitude. You don't book a fed. You don't know what's in store ahead. What gives you the right, or the experience even, to decide that the match was overbooked? I get that you're allowed to have your opinion, but it's like, why do you guys watch the product if all you're going to do is pick it apart? Is it fun to have a hate-hate relationship with a form of entertainment? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass in any way shape or form, but after everything that happens, we have a bevy of people that just absolutely crap on it. There's no pleasing everybody, obviously, but to hear stuff like "WOW NOW WE GET BORING STALE DEL RIO CHAMPION." Like, what? I get that you're allowed to have an opinion, but it's like why do you even post on this message board if all you're going to do is complain about the other posters. Is it fun to have a hate-hate relationship with a message board? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass in any way shape or form, but after everything that is posted, we have a guy who just absolutely craps on it. Sound logic. Thank you for your contribution.
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,145
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Post by Paco on Aug 14, 2011 22:39:23 GMT -5
Give me a break, that was a brutal end of the show. Don't you think the crowd reaction to BOTH finishes said a volume? Unfortunately this place is full of people will lap up ANYTHING the WWE does and say it was great. They had a ME with two guys who got massive mixed heat which gives you infinite booking potential. They woke up a crowd that was in a coma, or a crowd that was only there to see that one match. Then you do that. It's like having Austin vs. HBK at WM14, let's say there's a MITB back then, and then Austin goes over in a fishy fashion (which he did IRL), but wait, HERE COMES SAVIO VEGA! HE'S WHALING ON AUSTIN! OH MY! AND NOW HERE COMES KEN SHAMROCK WITH THE MITB! HE'S THE NEW CHAMPION! WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED HERE? Actually, if you swap Savio Vega for, say, Randy Savage and swap Shamrock for Owen, then you actually have the finish from tonight. WAY more accurate.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Aug 14, 2011 22:40:31 GMT -5
Unqualified. That's an amazing word to use for entertainment discussion. What are your qualifications, if I might ask, for judging the qualifications of others to react to the ending of a wrestling match? I think he had a psychotic break in the GDT when Christian lost, too, which makes it funny, since that was a perfectly logical blow-off to a feud between a heel and a face. Face beats up heel, wins. Never seen that one before. A 'psychotic break?' I stated my opinion, backed it up by what happened in the ring. Not once did I call the WWE stale, did I say that Orton is going to be a stale champion, or cry about the current state of the product because a match didn't go my way. Nice try though. There's a clear distinction there. Crystal clear.
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