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Post by King Boo on Aug 2, 2011 13:57:34 GMT -5
So do I. "Let's get some new blood." *new blood* "SAVE.US/(insert veteran here)." Rock must thank his lucky stars he didn't debut in this era as Rocky Maivia. Apparently the time limit for showing everything you have before you're deemed a failure or worthless or "a clutter" is 15 seconds. Absolutely. Guys need time to find their niche. Look at Miz. The guy was terrible when he started off, but they gave him something to work with (teaming him with Morrison) and he busted his ass to get where he is. Santino crashed and burned at first, but developed when given a chance find his place. He developed into a comedy act, and eventually, got crazy over. Sheamus took a beating when he found himself in the ME. I think his current face turn may be the thing that swings his career. You cant toss a guy out there and say "Ok, be a star.....NOW!". Most of the great stars go through peaks and valleys before it's figured out what to do with them YES. OMG THANK YOU. This is why I think it's hasty to write off Alex Riley now. It's also why I think it's unfair to compare him to people who are more established than him. Of course he's not going to be up to par with a Kofi yet - he's been around a fraction of the amount of time and an even smaller fraction in terms of a storyline all his own, seeing as that literally seems to have started LAST NIGHT.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 14:00:02 GMT -5
So do I. "Let's get some new blood." *new blood* "SAVE.US/(insert veteran here)." Rock must thank his lucky stars he didn't debut in this era as Rocky Maivia. Apparently the time limit for showing everything you have before you're deemed a failure or worthless or "a clutter" is 15 seconds. Absolutely. Guys need time to find their niche. Look at Miz. The guy was terrible when he started off, but they gave him something to work with (teaming him with Morrison) and he busted his ass to get where he is. Santino crashed and burned at first, but developed when given a chance find his place. He developed into a comedy act, and eventually, got crazy over. Sheamus took a beating when he found himself in the ME. I think his current face turn may be the thing that swings his career. You cant toss a guy out there and say "Ok, be a star.....NOW!". Most of the great stars go through peaks and valleys before it's figured out what to do with them I don't think Miz is a good comparison for Riley at all. Miz was a new guy who they never gave up on. They gave him a long, steady push up to the top. It was never anything too soon. He started at the absolute bottom of the totem pole. When he feuded with Cena and other people were crying that he was getting buried and made to look like a chump, I pointed out that the fact they were letting him go the distance with Cena (kind of) was a clear sign of faith into his abilities, and that a push for him in the future would be expected. Lo and behold, Miz became WWE champion, and is the most over heel wrestler in the entire company. At the beginning, I guess you can say he kind of sucked, but he demonstrated an aptitude for annoying the fans. He was always brilliant at it. And that aspect has become a core element of his character. That's why Miz's push works out so brilliantly. They never shoved him down the audience's throats, they never really "fed" anyone to him, and they never pushed him in a way that was contrary to his strengths. Miz is an example of a wrestler whose push was not only well engineered, but has had all of the elements (and used them) to make the most of it. Riley has been absolutely nothing and is now just below the upper tier of the mid-card just by turning on Miz. That's it, really. It's too much, too soon. I agree with letting him develop, but that means not putting him in a place that's above where he should be. And being at a tier higher than guys like Kofi is way, way too much, and I don't think it's really deserved for what he brings to the table. That's the problem here.
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DavidArquette
Don Corleone
The actor formerly known as avanteproject
Posts: 1,542
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Post by DavidArquette on Aug 2, 2011 14:07:38 GMT -5
He continues to get pops because he now has the People's Elbow Five Knuckle Shuffle Boom Drop Ballin' Elbow A-Bomb! Yeah, what the f***? He did that on Superstars and I was just like It's even worse than the Worm and 5 Knuckle Shuffle.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 14:11:03 GMT -5
What's the point of having someone new, if they're not interesting? "New" doesn't just mean "We haven't seen this guy before." "New" means "This guy is bringing something new and original and fresh to the scene." Right now A-Ry is someone we really haven't seen before, but he's not not bringing anything new or original to the show. I think that's what people mean when they say they want new stars. And to say he hasn't been given the chance is kind of a cop-out. The guy has basically been associated with the World Champion for a year and fueded with him for like 2 months and he really didn't show us much How much more of a chance does he really need to showcase himself? Kofi's feud with Randy Orton - Kofi really showed what he could do, until he was squashed down - but still, he showed he could possibly hang at that level. This is his first real feud based on something all his own - not related to NXT or The Miz. That's his first chance to me - it's his first chance without everything that "brought him to the dance" so to speak. We have no idea how it will go. So far, he's getting a decent reaction. My point is we should all SEE where it goes. But people aren't allowing him that, mainly from what I see, based on the fact that it's not who they want. Everyone has this one and done attitude when it comes to giving a chance. If someone doesn't WOW and AMAZE based on your own personal criteria, that's it. They're done. They suck and they're a waste of time. IMO, that's BS. I'm not comparing him to Kofi - I like Kofi too and think he could be more than he is also. I don't see why sides have to be picked. Why can't Riley be given a chance to shine a little while Kofi is still great and we all still like him? Why is it all so RIGID? The only reason is a subjective one and that doesn't really hold water. No one's saying he shouldn't get a chance to shine. You want to know the cold hard truth. Everyone wants A-Ry to shine.We're just waiting on him. Until he does actually start to shine - he needs to get the hell out of the way of the guys that do. No one here is saying "FIRE A-RY," what people are saying is "Hey we're giving him a chance and he's not doing anything for me." If he needs to go away and come back with something better- than do it - just like the Rock did. But what he's doing now just bores me. I want him to not bore me so bad.
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Post by King Boo on Aug 2, 2011 14:12:47 GMT -5
Riley has been absolutely nothing and is now just below the upper tier of the mid-card just by turning on Miz. That's it, really. It's too much, too soon. I agree with letting him develop, but that means not putting him in a place that's above where he should be. And being at a tier higher than guys like Kofi is way, way too much, and I don't think it's really deserved for what he brings to the table. That's the problem here. I don't see him as higher than Kofi (or whomever), I don't see him as having much of anything yet outside of a chance and as such, I don't see him as being higher than he should be. I think people just need to calm down a little about what this all means. Alex Riley getting a little attention doesn't mean someone's lining up Kofi and the rest and making them face the firing squad. Seriously, this isn't anything huge - it's just a chance for someone new who may wind up being better than everyone thinks. And I still don't see why that's bad. More chances for more people is a GOOD thing. No one's saying he shouldn't get a chance to shine. You want to know the cold hard truth. Everyone wants A-Ry to shine.We're just waiting on him. Until he does actually start to shine - he needs to get the hell out of the way of the guys that do. No one here is saying "FIRE A-RY," what people are saying is "Hey we're giving him a chance and he's not doing anything for me." If he needs to go away and come back with something better- than do it - just like the Rock did. But what he's doing now just bores me. I want him to not bore me so bad. Okay if him getting a chance to feud with Dolph is too much, what do you suggest? What's an appropriate way to get him to a new level?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 14:14:43 GMT -5
This is his first real feud based on something all his own - not related to NXT or The Miz. That's his first chance to me - it's his first chance without everything that "brought him to the dance" so to speak. We have no idea how it will go. So far, he's getting a decent reaction. My point is we should all SEE where it goes. But people aren't allowing him that, mainly from what I see, based on the fact that it's not who they want. Everyone has this one and done attitude when it comes to giving a chance. If someone doesn't WOW and AMAZE based on your own personal criteria, that's it. They're done. They suck and they're a waste of time. IMO, that's BS. I'm not comparing him to Kofi - I like Kofi too and think he could be more than he is also. I don't see why sides have to be picked. Why can't Riley be given a chance to shine a little while Kofi is still great and we all still like him? Why is it all so RIGID? The only reason is a subjective one and that doesn't really hold water. No one's saying he shouldn't get a chance to shine. You want to know the cold hard truth. Everyone wants A-Ry to shine.We're just waiting on him. Until he does actually start to shine - he needs to get the hell out of the way of the guys that do. No one here is saying "FIRE A-RY," what people are saying is "Hey we're giving him a chance and he's not doing anything for me." If he needs to go away and come back with something better- than do it. But what he's doing now just bores me. I want him to not bore me so bad. Absolutely. To tie in with my post about Miz, he could easily be pushed like Miz was. Or instead of Miz being pushed like he was, imagine Miz at the start of his career immediately feuding for the US title and tangling with main eventers as soon as he started getting over? It would've been preposterous.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 14:24:40 GMT -5
Riley has been absolutely nothing and is now just below the upper tier of the mid-card just by turning on Miz. That's it, really. It's too much, too soon. I agree with letting him develop, but that means not putting him in a place that's above where he should be. And being at a tier higher than guys like Kofi is way, way too much, and I don't think it's really deserved for what he brings to the table. That's the problem here. I don't see him as higher than Kofi (or whomever), I don't see him as having much of anything yet outside of a chance and as such, I don't see him as being higher than he should be. I think people just need to calm down a little about what this all means. Alex Riley getting a little attention doesn't mean someone's lining up Kofi and the rest and making them face the firing squad. Seriously, this isn't anything huge - it's just a chance for someone new who may wind up being better than everyone thinks. And I still don't see why that's bad. More chances for more people is a GOOD thing. No one's saying he shouldn't get a chance to shine. You want to know the cold hard truth. Everyone wants A-Ry to shine.We're just waiting on him. Until he does actually start to shine - he needs to get the hell out of the way of the guys that do. No one here is saying "FIRE A-RY," what people are saying is "Hey we're giving him a chance and he's not doing anything for me." If he needs to go away and come back with something better- than do it - just like the Rock did. But what he's doing now just bores me. I want him to not bore me so bad. Okay if him getting a chance to feud with Dolph is too much, what do you suggest? What's an appropriate way to get him to a new level? The problem isn't who he's feuding with - the problem is him. He needs to develop a character or do something to actually generate interest in himself outside of the fact that he used to work for the Miz. If he had some kind of definable character that was interesting, then him feuding for a midcard title would be more palatable.
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Post by King Boo on Aug 2, 2011 16:02:13 GMT -5
I don't see him as higher than Kofi (or whomever), I don't see him as having much of anything yet outside of a chance and as such, I don't see him as being higher than he should be. I think people just need to calm down a little about what this all means. Alex Riley getting a little attention doesn't mean someone's lining up Kofi and the rest and making them face the firing squad. Seriously, this isn't anything huge - it's just a chance for someone new who may wind up being better than everyone thinks. And I still don't see why that's bad. More chances for more people is a GOOD thing. Okay if him getting a chance to feud with Dolph is too much, what do you suggest? What's an appropriate way to get him to a new level? The problem isn't who he's feuding with - the problem is him. He needs to develop a character or do something to actually generate interest in himself outside of the fact that he used to work for the Miz. If he had some kind of definable character that was interesting, then him feuding for a midcard title would be more palatable. I feel like we're going in circles here. You say he needs to develop more before he gets any kind of attention and I say he'll develop more if given a chance. Seeing as neither of us think we're wrong, let's just agree to disagree.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 16:24:49 GMT -5
The problem isn't who he's feuding with - the problem is him. He needs to develop a character or do something to actually generate interest in himself outside of the fact that he used to work for the Miz. If he had some kind of definable character that was interesting, then him feuding for a midcard title would be more palatable. I feel like we're going in circles here. You say he needs to develop more before he gets any kind of attention and I say he'll develop more if given a chance. Seeing as neither of us think we're wrong, let's just agree to disagree. I think we're both saying the same thing in a way actually, but with a different time frame: You think he should be heavily featured as he develops. I think he should be heavily featured once he develops. I think that's basically the crux of the entire arguement for both sides actually.
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Sektor
Unicron
The OTHER Big Red Machine.
Posts: 2,808
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Post by Sektor on Aug 2, 2011 16:26:36 GMT -5
Its his beady eyes. That's what your missing.
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Post by Shaun2k5 on Aug 2, 2011 16:30:21 GMT -5
There is not one single thing about Riley that says "main eventer".
Generic looks. Generic moveset. Generic mic skills.
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Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Phil Parent on Aug 2, 2011 16:45:24 GMT -5
Man, if an epic theme intro is all is needed for someone to be over, WWE should get the rights to Grand Sword or Spartan X and give it to someone. Say Bryan.
It will be so awesome than the crowd will collectively lose control of their bowel movement and rocket up to the rafters on the power of their s*** pushing them up.
Speaking of which...
Spartan X was composed by an American composer and used by a New Japan wrestler (Umanosuke Ueda) before Misawa even started wrestling.
Blew my mind.
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Post by King Boo on Aug 2, 2011 16:55:16 GMT -5
I feel like we're going in circles here. You say he needs to develop more before he gets any kind of attention and I say he'll develop more if given a chance. Seeing as neither of us think we're wrong, let's just agree to disagree. I think we're both saying the same thing in a way actually, but with a different time frame: You think he should be heavily featured as he develops. I think he should be heavily featured once he develops. I think that's basically the crux of the entire arguement for both sides actually. I don't know about heavily - just featured at all. But in comparison to people who want him just totally gone, I guess what I want/think is fair seems like a lot. I'd hope what you said is what people would want from anyone, but truth be told, it doesn't usually sound that way. Honestly, the whole thing for me is that every time there's someone new that seems to be getting any kind of a chance to elevate themselves above the level they're at, every one who's always crowing about wanting new stars are usually the first ones who swoop in and start immediately finding ways that it's not right, when the reason is usually just that it's someone who's not their preference. I don't see how that kind of approach is conducive to ever getting new stars, nor do I see how it allows some people to even form into something/one that people can get behind. It's unfeasible to think that everyone who comes up straight away is going to be this amazing star. Some people just need some time and a chance. A true chance, not something immediate. With Alex Riley, I don't really see what the big deal is. Do I think he's the greatest thing I've ever seen? No, but I don't know why he in particular is always brought up in a negative light. It's perplexing to me. Just let the guy have a chance.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Aug 2, 2011 17:02:43 GMT -5
I think a beard, more tats and bigger thighs could do wonders for him. They don't have to be bigger, just more amazing. Oh, and regarding the argument that we're not giving Riley a chance... if he's got something, people will come around to him sooner or later. I recall a large portion of this board absolutely despised Sheamus during his first title run, declaring him a talentess clod who'd been shoved into the spotlight solely because he was Triple H's workout buddy, and longing for the day he'd be dumped back down to jobbing on Superstars. Now... I'd say he's won over many of his detractors, and gets praised around here quite a bit. I'll give it a few months and see if Riley impresses me. For now, sadly, he strikes me as better than Ted Dibiase Junior but still very much another guy out of that same "bland, blank slate who's decent at everything but hasn't any standout talents" mold.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Aug 2, 2011 17:04:45 GMT -5
Generic looks, and mic skills which while decent, don't make up for his lack of in-ring ability. So while certainly not the worst guy on the roster, there are a few guys I would like to see get a push over him.
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Fauxberg
ALF
GUNNA VERSUS CRIMSON! BAH GAWD!
Posts: 1,057
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Post by Fauxberg on Aug 2, 2011 17:09:48 GMT -5
BTW, when Cody Rhodes debuted eveyone thought he was generic as hell and even called him CAWdy Rhodes. Look how that turned out.
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Post by HollywoodArmbar on Aug 2, 2011 17:17:49 GMT -5
I find Kofi Kingston quite boring so I'm happy for a guy like A-Ry to take up TV time instead. But then again I don't complain whenever Kofi is featured, because I'm a grown man and realise that things aren't catered solely to my tastes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 17:18:40 GMT -5
BTW, when Cody Rhodes debuted eveyone thought he was generic as hell and even called him CAWdy Rhodes. Look how that turned out. That's because they took a very careful path of development with Cody, and even when he debuted, Cody was never bad. Personally I just had a hard time taking him seriously because his lack of kneepads made him just look so... naked.
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Post by jadison on Aug 2, 2011 17:35:46 GMT -5
I think this is where the writers deserve some credit. The handling of the Miz/Riley break up was so well done. They built the sympathy for Riley, slowly but surely, while also giving him a lot of entertaining moments in the ring and on the mic to get the crowd invested in him. It got to the point where the audience WANTED A-Ri to kick Miz's ass, and it delivered.
Also, Riley is a really good brawler, and that's an underrated trait in the wrestling biz these days. "Brawling" sounds like it would be easy and any wrestler can do it, and that's true, but to be good at it takes a lot of energy and excitement. Riley's got fire, you can't really teach that. His charisma comes through when he's fighting.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 17:47:13 GMT -5
I think we're both saying the same thing in a way actually, but with a different time frame: You think he should be heavily featured as he develops. I think he should be heavily featured once he develops. I think that's basically the crux of the entire arguement for both sides actually. I don't know about heavily - just featured at all. But in comparison to people who want him just totally gone, I guess what I want/think is fair seems like a lot. I'd hope what you said is what people would want from anyone, but truth be told, it doesn't usually sound that way. Honestly, the whole thing for me is that every time there's someone new that seems to be getting any kind of a chance to elevate themselves above the level they're at, every one who's always crowing about wanting new stars are usually the first ones who swoop in and start immediately finding ways that it's not right, when the reason is usually just that it's someone who's not their preference. I don't see how that kind of approach is conducive to ever getting new stars, nor do I see how it allows some people to even form into something/one that people can get behind. It's unfeasible to think that everyone who comes up straight away is going to be this amazing star. Some people just need some time and a chance. A true chance, not something immediate. With Alex Riley, I don't really see what the big deal is. Do I think he's the greatest thing I've ever seen? No, but I don't know why he in particular is always brought up in a negative light. It's perplexing to me. Just let the guy have a chance. In a lot of ways I agree with you - A-Ry needs more time to show his stuff and should be given a shot, but in all fairness - if being on TV for a solid year next to guys like Miz, Cena, Rock and Austin; basically having a strong foot hold in the championship seen; and getting more time on the microphone most weeks than either of the mid-card champs isn't enough time/opportunity, it really makes me wonder what it will take. My question to you - how many more chances should people give him?
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