Was Savage/Steamboat WWF's first good match?

[rapidfire187]

I was just reading Ask 411 Wrestling and somebody in the comments section said that Savage/Steamboat is overrated because it was WWF's first good match.

Now obviously we can't all agree on what a good match is. So in the interest of convenience, I'm going to assume he meant it was the first time WWF had featured a match that was on the same level as what was going on in the NWA. To be more specific, an action packed match featuring lots of counters and near falls and teh workratez.

So, was there anything before that match that was similar? I personally think most matches from that time period are incredibly boring and agree with what the guy said. It's a great match, but I coukd name at least 50 other singles matches that were better IMO. Granted, the wrestlers in those matches were probably inspired by Savage/Steamboat.

[HMARK Center]

I guess that guy never bothered to look up any older Hart Foundation vs. British Bulldog matches from the mid 80's.

I'm also a fan of the mid 80's Hogan vs. Orndorff matches, but obviously they're not the same thing as Steamboat/Savage.

[Big Evil]

Short Answer: No. Absolutely not. No f***ing way.

Savage/Steamboat is a great match, but FAR from the first good WWF match. Sheik/Sarge, Patterson/Sarge, Hogan/Orndorff, Dusty/Graham, Backlund/Graham, Backlund/Sheik, I could go on and on.

To be honest, the person that said that is a moron and clearly has never seen any WWF before the Hulkamania era.

[molson5]

I'm sure there were hundreds of good matches prior to that, but almost all of them happened at house shows. Mania III was the 3rd or 4th WWF PPV ever, and they didn't run big matches on TV very often. But there was some great stuff that pops up on MSG and Boston Garden TV cards, matches involving Backlund, Valentine, Snuka, Adonis, Dick Murdoch, Buddy Rose, Mil Mascaras, the Briscoes, Stan Hansen, Santana, and Steamboat and Savage in 1986 and 1987 pre-mania.

The guy in the comments section did have a point though, I do think Savage/Steamboat is probably somewhat overrated because it was a lot different that most stuff going on in the company to that point. I actually can't think of a FASTER paced WWF match prior to that one, but there's more to wrestling than fast paces, and the guys I listed above had a ton of great matches.

[SAJ Forth]

This guy seemed like he only watched after that match.

[rapidfire187]

Feb 2, 2012 0:10:31 GMT -5 SAJ Forth said:

This guy seemed like he only watched after that match.

And so did I. I didn't start watching until the early 90's and I find most WWF stuff pre-WM 3 to be unwatchable. The only WWF matches I've liked from the early 80's involved the Hart Foundation, British Bulldogs, Savage and Steamboat. I just don't like slow wrestling that relies on drama over action. Those type of matches are better when they're first seen in the proper context, not 20 years later.

[Big Evil]

Feb 2, 2012 1:12:26 GMT -5 rapidfire187 said:

Feb 2, 2012 0:10:31 GMT -5 SAJ Forth said:

This guy seemed like he only watched after that match.

And so did I. I didn't start watching until the early 90's and I find most WWF stuff pre-WM 3 to be unwatchable. The only WWF matches I've liked from the early 80's involved the Hart Foundation, British Bulldogs, Savage and Steamboat. I just don't like slow wrestling that relies on drama over action. Those type of matches are better when they're first seen in the proper context, not 20 years later.

Hmm, uh, I wouldn't say that. I mean, that's your opinion and that's fine. But don't make such a broad comment as they're only good when they were seen in the proper context. If you don't like those type of matches, that's fine and understandable. But I would take one of those matches with drama, a story and methodical wrestling over alot of this flippy bulls*** that's been popular the past ten years or so.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Nope. Some don't even consider that a good match because Savage had it planned out too much. I believe Flair criticized it for that, well, Savage anyway, I doubt he could ever dream of saying a bad word about Steamboat.

[Steveweiser]

Backlund/Patera and Patterson/Slaughter both won the Observer's Match of the Year prior to Savage/Steamboat, so no, not the WWF's first great match.

[sludgehammer]

Feb 2, 2012 2:49:24 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Nope. Some don't even consider that a good match because Savage had it planned out too much.

I've always thought that was dumb. It doesn't matter how they got there it only matters what happened in the ring.

Ugh. Wrestling is planned anyways. So f***ing what if Savage planned everything out. Since it's ppe-determined and a goddamn show what's the f***ing difference.

[johnnyk9]

Considering Bob Backland/Bruno Sammartino/Billy Graham had all had tremendous matches prior to WM3 I'm gonna say no

[Deleted]

Obviously he never saw any of the classic Junior Heavyweight matches in the mid-80s featuring Dynamite Kid.

[beamanhogan]

WM 2 had an excellent match between The British Bulldogs and The Dream Team. Meltzer (who I am not the biggest fan of) even gave it 4 stars.

[Bo Rida]

Feb 2, 2012 4:12:21 GMT -5 sludgehammer said:

Feb 2, 2012 2:49:24 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Nope. Some don't even consider that a good match because Savage had it planned out too much.

I've always thought that was dumb. It doesn't matter how they got there it only matters what happened in the ring.

Ugh. Wrestling is planned anyways. So f***ing what if Savage planned everything out. Since it's ppe-determined and a goddamn show what's the f***ing difference.

As long as you can't tell it's planned I agree but sometimes it’s obvious and that can take you out of the moment ruining the suspension of disbelief.
I don’t think that applies to this match though but others may see it differently.

[RowdyRobbyPiper]

Feb 2, 2012 4:12:21 GMT -5 sludgehammer said:

Feb 2, 2012 2:49:24 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Nope. Some don't even consider that a good match because Savage had it planned out too much.

I've always thought that was dumb. It doesn't matter how they got there it only matters what happened in the ring.

Ugh. Wrestling is planned anyways. So f***ing what if Savage planned everything out. Since it's ppe-determined and a goddamn show what's the f***ing difference.

Exactly. George Harrison, to me is not a lesser guitarist than Eric Clapton because George never improvised his guitar solos. All that matters is if it moves you.

I loved the Savage/Steamboat WM 3 match the first time I saw it in 1987 and I still loved it the most recent time that I watched it (which was about a month ago).

[Deleted]

I wouldn't say it was the first "good match" in the '80s WWF, because aside from the others listed above, really, any of the matches that Steamboat or Savage had on their own, even with jobbers, weren't exactly stinkers.

[Squirrel Master]

Feb 1, 2012 23:40:34 GMT -5 Big Evil said:

Short Answer: No. Absolutely not. No f***ing way.

Savage/Steamboat is a great match, but FAR from the first good WWF match. Sheik/Sarge, Patterson/Sarge, Hogan/Orndorff, Dusty/Graham, Backlund/Graham, Backlund/Sheik, I could go on and on.

To be honest, the person that said that is a moron and clearly has never seen any WWF before the Hulkamania era.

I concur with the above opinions. I was there at MSG (as a very young lad with my older brother and his boys) for Bob Backlund's title win over Superstar Graham. Yes indeed, it was historic. Also, honorable mention must go to Iron Sheik's title win, that was a great match!

[HMARK Center]

It may be more a matter of Savage/Steamboat representing a different style of wrestling that didn't get a ton of exposure in the WWF beforehand, and it being heavily featured on the biggest stage possible.

But still, again, it neglects matches that were even wrestled less than a year or so beforehand, such as the Foundation/Bulldog title feuds.

[Mayonnaise]

Just thinking wildly on this while at lunch, it's not the first great match in WWE history but, it could easily be the first available to the masses. Before this how many of the previous matches were available via PPV or VHS? Most you either had to be in the arena or read about it via PWI. Even then how many of those were even available for a mass audience to see until recently?

Not saying I agree, just that I could see why someone would think that.

[Frito Pendejo]

Feb 2, 2012 4:12:21 GMT -5 sludgehammer said:

Ugh. Wrestling is planned anyways. So f***ing what if Savage planned everything out. Since it's ppe-determined and a goddamn show what's the f***ing difference.

Planning the majority of a match move-for-move isn't working a match.