chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,988
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Post by chazraps on Sept 28, 2011 19:10:47 GMT -5
hat being said, Im ALWAYS reminded about the rumor (or truth, unsure) that he killed Daniel while in the hold whenever I see it no matter who does it. I -- I'm sorry? What? Never heard that, and kinda makes Cena using the move in Edmonton a lot more... uncomfortable, I guess is the word I'm looking for. Yes, it's said he smothered his son face down in a pillow while he applied the Crossface. For me, the creepiest Benoit clip post-murders is the promotional bumper for Raw that USA aired in September 2002 that had Benoit looking psychotic in an empty warehouse and saying something to the effect of "I've given my family's lives for this business" while giving a twisted smile to the camera.
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Post by DrizzlinShytes on Sept 28, 2011 19:14:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't know if the rumor is true, but I can't see a crossface without thinking of that poor kid.
And also, I never really thought the hold looked legit anyway. Just an opinion, but I never liked it as a finisher anyway.
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Post by FailedGimmick on Sept 28, 2011 19:16:49 GMT -5
Wow.
Unreal.
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El Hijo De Slapnuts
Samurai Cop
Really waiting for Minoru Suzuki to face off with a live gator.....
Posts: 2,256
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Post by El Hijo De Slapnuts on Sept 28, 2011 19:26:47 GMT -5
Call me insensitive,though I do cringe when seeing his family at ringside and whatnot,I can watch a Benoit match with no problem,I even borrowed the set from my best bud,and I liked it. Though the documentary was tarnished for me.
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r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,480
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Post by r. on Sept 28, 2011 19:36:59 GMT -5
An interesting comparison, I used a similar one explaining how the history channel isn't gorifying hitler when they do WWII shows,The same as how WWE would'nt be glorifying benoit by showing him on a dvd (Not saying he should get a 6 disc carrear highlight dvd).
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zeez
Patti Mayonnaise
Yeah. That's right.
Posts: 32,702
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Post by zeez on Sept 28, 2011 19:45:02 GMT -5
Why do people keep making threads about Benoit? It always ends up down the same road that most everyone on here doesn't want to go down.
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Post by FailedGimmick on Sept 28, 2011 19:47:41 GMT -5
He's a big part of wrestling history both in and out of WWE and for both good and bad reasons.
It has to come up eventually.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Sept 28, 2011 19:54:24 GMT -5
An interesting comparison, I used a similar one explaining how the history channel isn't gorifying hitler when they do WWII shows,The same as how WWE would'nt be glorifying benoit by showing him on a dvd (Not saying he should get a 6 disc carrear highlight dvd). I think theres a big difference though. When they show Hitler and stuff like that, he is never portrayed as a hero. I wonder how often he was showed in the immediate aftermath of WWII and such as well. The passage of time plays a lot into things. Benoit is different. Yes, he is a murderer, but the amount of respect he garnered for his wrestling achievements cannot be understated. Hitler was seen as a "bad guy" from day one virtually. The rest of the world knew of his antisemetic message and such from the moment he came on the scene in the early 30s. It wasnt a case of Hitler being a "good guy" and doing something so heinous out of nowhere. I think theres a fine line in regards to presenting Benoit. However, its a lot different than Hitler and not an apt comparison. Use this context..... The WWE has excised Benoit from almost everything in respects to an entertainment entity. He basically doesnt exist anymore. Is there harm in this? On the flipside, civilization and all of mankind would be remiss to forget Hitler because of the level of atrocities his regime committed. Theres legit harm in forgetting Hitler. I dont think theres any in forgetting Benoit, he was just a wrestler who murdered his family, a crime that sadly happens every day in some part of the world.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,988
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Post by chazraps on Sept 28, 2011 22:19:11 GMT -5
An interesting comparison, I used a similar one explaining how the history channel isn't gorifying hitler when they do WWII shows,The same as how WWE would'nt be glorifying benoit by showing him on a dvd (Not saying he should get a 6 disc carrear highlight dvd). I think theres a big difference though. When they show Hitler and stuff like that, he is never portrayed as a hero. I wonder how often he was showed in the immediate aftermath of WWII and such as well. The passage of time plays a lot into things. Benoit is different. Yes, he is a murderer, but the amount of respect he garnered for his wrestling achievements cannot be understated. Hitler was seen as a "bad guy" from day one virtually. The rest of the world knew of his antisemetic message and such from the moment he came on the scene in the early 30s. It wasnt a case of Hitler being a "good guy" and doing something so heinous out of nowhere. I think theres a fine line in regards to presenting Benoit. However, its a lot different than Hitler and not an apt comparison. Use this context..... The WWE has excised Benoit from almost everything in respects to an entertainment entity. He basically doesnt exist anymore. Is there harm in this? On the flipside, civilization and all of mankind would be remiss to forget Hitler because of the level of atrocities his regime committed. Theres legit harm in forgetting Hitler. I dont think theres any in forgetting Benoit, he was just a wrestler who murdered his family, a crime that sadly happens every day in some part of the world. It's also worth noting that the WWE markets their DVDs and programming as a family product where as the History Channel caters almost exclusively to adults. I'm sure a big part of Benoit being omitted isn't just glorifying him, but so younger viewers don't have to have the "that guy murdered his wife and son and then killed himself over the course of a weekend" conversation.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Sept 28, 2011 22:31:25 GMT -5
I think theres a big difference though. When they show Hitler and stuff like that, he is never portrayed as a hero. I wonder how often he was showed in the immediate aftermath of WWII and such as well. The passage of time plays a lot into things. Benoit is different. Yes, he is a murderer, but the amount of respect he garnered for his wrestling achievements cannot be understated. Hitler was seen as a "bad guy" from day one virtually. The rest of the world knew of his antisemetic message and such from the moment he came on the scene in the early 30s. It wasnt a case of Hitler being a "good guy" and doing something so heinous out of nowhere. I think theres a fine line in regards to presenting Benoit. However, its a lot different than Hitler and not an apt comparison. Use this context..... The WWE has excised Benoit from almost everything in respects to an entertainment entity. He basically doesnt exist anymore. Is there harm in this? On the flipside, civilization and all of mankind would be remiss to forget Hitler because of the level of atrocities his regime committed. Theres legit harm in forgetting Hitler. I dont think theres any in forgetting Benoit, he was just a wrestler who murdered his family, a crime that sadly happens every day in some part of the world. It's also worth noting that the WWE markets their DVDs and programming as a family product where as the History Channel caters almost exclusively to adults. I'm sure a big part of Benoit being omitted isn't just glorifying him, but so younger viewers don't have to have the "that guy murdered his wife and son and then killed himself over the course of a weekend" conversation. I think the whole "PG" aspect that you're suggesting is possible, but I think that would be a lesser reasoning. I think the excision of everything Benoit is more related to the WWE trying to remove him is so they (more so than any viewer) wouldnt ever have to answer to "Why is Benoit on here" and rehash it.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Sept 28, 2011 22:33:49 GMT -5
I'm just curious as to why after a long time of inactivity, Benoit threads have been popping up like wildflowers here lately.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 28, 2011 22:36:15 GMT -5
I -- I'm sorry? What? Never heard that, and kinda makes Cena using the move in Edmonton a lot more... uncomfortable, I guess is the word I'm looking for. Yes, it's said he smothered his son face down in a pillow while he applied the Crossface. For me, the creepiest Benoit clip post-murders is the promotional bumper for Raw that USA aired in September 2002 that had Benoit looking psychotic in an empty warehouse and saying something to the effect of "I've given my family's lives for this business" while giving a twisted smile to the camera. Reminds me of when I watch the Horsemen dvd and they get to the section Benoit and Pillman and when Arn talks about why Chris fits he uses the phrase " Benoit was a monster." It's in context of the rest of what he's saying and clearly is meant a totally different way, still makes one's skin crawl.
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DIIV
ALF
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 1,017
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Post by DIIV on Sept 28, 2011 22:43:33 GMT -5
Okay?whats your point? you act like fans knew he was going to murder someone. and why would you assume he was always evil, because of one event that was resulted in steroid abuse and head trauma?
k.
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Post by molson5 on Sept 28, 2011 22:58:27 GMT -5
An interesting comparison, I used a similar one explaining how the history channel isn't gorifying hitler when they do WWII shows,The same as how WWE would'nt be glorifying benoit by showing him on a dvd (Not saying he should get a 6 disc carrear highlight dvd). In 50 years maybe. In 1950 a documentary about what a successful leader Hitler was would have been a tough sell
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Sept 28, 2011 23:16:46 GMT -5
Okay?whats your point? you act like fans knew he was going to murder someone. and why would you assume he was always evil, because of one event that was resulted in steroid abuse and head trauma? k. It doesnt matter if he was always evil or wasnt. He killed a woman and a child for NO REASON. Yes, he had problems, but you cannot lay all the reason at his problems. Many people have mental issues, but dont kill their families. For that alone, he should not be revered whatsoever for what he did in a wrestling ring, which is nothing more than entertainment.
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Krazee
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 71,547
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Post by Krazee on Sept 29, 2011 2:56:41 GMT -5
i actually havent watched a Chris Benoit match ever since the murders
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 3:04:51 GMT -5
Personally, I get why they leave off Benoit matches (though I am opposed to it), but removing commentary referencing him in the 2005 Elimination Chamber match just rendered that match unwatchable, and it's not like someone saying Benoit suplexed Jericho is going to screw up some kid's innocent mind. At least he was the second one eliminated, but that still took twenty minutes.
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Post by The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} on Sept 29, 2011 4:21:40 GMT -5
It must be like watching Naked Gun movies Acquitted.
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Post by Sparvid on Sept 29, 2011 6:24:19 GMT -5
I don't quite get the "glorifying" part. I mean, sure it would technically be possible to produce a segment today which glorified Benoit, but I don't see how including a Benoit match is automatically the same thing as glorifying him, no matter what the context is. The new Randy Orton DVD includes his debut match where he beat Hardcore Holly. So does that mean that it glorifies Holly?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 12:53:39 GMT -5
I don't have any problem watching Benoit matches peronally. I actually still have his RAW tribute show which is just so bizarre to watch nowadays
I would prefer them not leaving his matches out of certain boxsets that you just know they would be in, but I get why so it doesnt annoy me
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