Tiger Maskooo
Samurai Cop
I cant hear you over the sound of how much im tiger masking
Posts: 2,384
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Post by Tiger Maskooo on Mar 26, 2012 11:45:36 GMT -5
Then she's not pandering,shes just untalented. also vanboxmeer summed it up above me That totally looks like you're attempting to find anything to slate her about She's not the best by any means, but she certainly isn't the worst. I think with the guidance of daniel bryan she may find her potential and one day like him I could bring myself to the selfless act of appreciating her. Though,let's be honest she's only winning those matches because shes dating a winner. Bryans basically winning them for her and the moment he finds someone else who actually looks good in the dresses he buys she goes straight back to loservile. And you know what bryan will be doing?
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PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,615
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Post by PKO on Mar 26, 2012 11:47:10 GMT -5
What are people judging her wrestling on by the way? I ask because her recent matches with the Bella Twins are the first time I've seen a match of hers on one of the main shows (Smackdown) where she's spent more than a minute in the ring.
I've seen her through FCW and NXT, but FCW was the place she really got to show what she could do. If I was judging her on what I've seen on Smackdown I probably wouldn't think much of her.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Mar 26, 2012 11:50:26 GMT -5
The people who say she's pandering isn't saying she's "fake", but rather she is taking something and greatly exaggerating it specifically to get over with the audience that she's marketed towards. To me, she's clearly pandering when you see her in photos with comics or a DS or something connected to geekdom just to get the desired reaction. That's not to say that she doesn't read comics or plays DS, but she is clearly and blatantly using it to get a reaction. Isn't that pretty much the lion's share of post-Golden Era personas? Also, judging her by a match with one of the Bellas isn't exactly fair, on account of the Bellas are sub-par at their best, and sucktastic at worst. That's like introducing someone to Triple H by recommending his Royal Rumble match with Scott Steiner.
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,286
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Mar 26, 2012 11:52:10 GMT -5
She's fine... WSU good, but not elite in any sense. I could think of at least five female wrestlers that work her style better, and some of them aren't lightweight (for instance, Madison Eagles can work a similar style to AJ when wrestling bigger people/guys).
She doesn't suck, though yes, she is overrated. Leave that to Rosa.
But, she isn't given a lot of time, and the opponents she's usually up against aren't great.
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Cronant
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,556
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Post by Cronant on Mar 26, 2012 11:52:18 GMT -5
Gotta run them ropes right, right?
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Post by Savage Gambino on Mar 26, 2012 11:55:38 GMT -5
Gotta run them ropes right, right? Side note: I can honestly say I have never watched a wrestling match and said "that's some damn fine rope running". Hell, while I can name about a hundred things wrong with Kelly Kelly as a wrestler, before I came here, running the ropes was not one of them. Eh, you live and you learn.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 26, 2012 11:59:53 GMT -5
AJ's good in the ring, but she isn't good enough to make truly bad wrestlers like the Bellas look good. Which, given that she's only been wrestling for a few years, I wouldn't really expect out of her. She still needs experience and matches with WWE's decent female workers that aren't squashes, like Natalya and Beth Phoenix. Her FCW work and NXT match with Naomi are examples of what she can do when she isn't limited by bad opponents or booking.
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Post by ecabney on Mar 26, 2012 12:01:25 GMT -5
The people who say she's pandering isn't saying she's "fake", but rather she is taking something and greatly exaggerating it specifically to get over with the audience that she's marketed towards. To me, she's clearly pandering when you see her in photos with comics or a DS or something connected to geekdom just to get the desired reaction. That's not to say that she doesn't read comics or plays DS, but she is clearly and blatantly using it to get a reaction. Isn't that pretty much the lion's share of post-Golden Era personas? Also, judging her by a match with one of the Bellas isn't exactly fair, on account of the Bellas are sub-par at their best, and sucktastic at worst. That's like introducing someone to Triple H by recommending his Royal Rumble match with Scott Steiner. to be fair, Steiner USED to be a good worker prior to going overboard with the roids
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 26, 2012 12:05:40 GMT -5
Steiner was f***ing great back when.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,442
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Post by FinalGwen on Mar 26, 2012 12:47:28 GMT -5
If she is pandering, then heck, at least she's done some damn good research into her gimmick, so I'd praise her for that.
However, I think someone trying to look like a cute nerd would choose something a bit more well known and cutesy than a figure of Meryl Silverburgh to keep on her desk. I think this is more a symptom of many nerdy subcultures being seen as a 'boys own' culture. After hearing about Paul Cornell's "panel parity" ideas, I've been reading around it, and it's quite fascinating, as well as a bit worrying.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Mar 26, 2012 12:49:04 GMT -5
She's middle of the road at best. She's no where near the Beth/Kharma/Nattie level but she's far and away better than the K2/Aksana level.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2012 12:54:10 GMT -5
Is that AJ-Naomi NXT match the kind of patronizing “a two and a half star match becomes a five star classic because it involves WWE divas and their standards are so low†type of thinking or is it a genuinely great match?
Like, I remember a ladder match with Beth Phoenix and Katie Lea that people were raving about and it honestly to me was one of the worst ladder matches I’ve ever seen just with the added novelty of it featuring divas rather than guys. Different strokes, I guess.
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vanboxmeer
ALF
Starts threads that aren't about Edge or Cena
Posts: 1,057
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Post by vanboxmeer on Mar 26, 2012 13:09:13 GMT -5
Is that AJ-Naomi NXT match the kind of patronizing “a two and a half star match becomes a five star classic because it involves WWE divas and their standards are so low†type of thinking or is it a genuinely great match? Like, I remember a ladder match with Beth Phoenix and Katie Lea that people were raving about and it honestly to me was one of the worst ladder matches I’ve ever seen just with the added novelty of it featuring divas rather than guys. Different strokes, I guess. Divas matches are looked and judged at a bell curve like for a special needs class. Yes, the match may indeed be passable and may even be decent as an actual professional wrestling match, but because it's the Divas it's looked at as a "good" match with a hidden disclaimer of "compared to the average divas match". Thus a decent match involving Divas becomes "one of the best Divas matches in the past few years".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2012 13:20:44 GMT -5
Is that AJ-Naomi NXT match the kind of patronizing “a two and a half star match becomes a five star classic because it involves WWE divas and their standards are so low†type of thinking or is it a genuinely great match? Like, I remember a ladder match with Beth Phoenix and Katie Lea that people were raving about and it honestly to me was one of the worst ladder matches I’ve ever seen just with the added novelty of it featuring divas rather than guys. Different strokes, I guess. Yes, it is absolutely patronizing. That Beth/Katie match is a fantastic example of it and so was that Lita/Victoria cage match on Raw in 2003 that would be considered one of the worst cage matches ever if it wasn't for the novelty of being a Divas cage match.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Mar 26, 2012 13:24:01 GMT -5
Why can't it simply be that 2 good wrestlers had a good match?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Mar 26, 2012 13:30:28 GMT -5
I've only seen two matches of hers. One with Naomi which was one of the best matches that year, and one with Brie Bella which was awkward and pretty much terrible. So I don't really know what to think of AJ. Was it ring rust or was Naomi carrying her completely? Didn't seem like it in their match though, so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. A mix of ring rust and the fact that the Bella Twins are awful wrestlers and can't have a good match with anyone. Some of the divas have moves they can't pull off against certain divas, that's why Kelly Kelly's matches with Beth Phoenix are so much different than the ones with the Bellas, because Beth can handle the flying moves while the Bellas can't.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2012 13:35:19 GMT -5
Why can't it simply be that 2 good wrestlers had a good match? It's because I don't just watch the Divas matches. I watch the guys wrestle, too, and in general, their matches are constantly better than the best Divas matches, let alone the average Diva match.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Mar 26, 2012 13:39:26 GMT -5
The ropes thing is valid for some wrestlers, but not AJ. Especially since AJ isn't that too, and probably could get away with doing the Rey Mysterio deal with running the ropes. AJ is going to have physical problems running the ropes due to her height and weight, but she's fine.
I decided to check out more of the matches, and Dan is completely wrong on AJ. AJ bumps really well, she sells really well. And after checking out just one match on youtube, AJ already runs the ropes better then Kelly, who Dan hates (like me). AJ is even shorter then Kelly, and runs the ropes fine. With her height, she could probably run the ropes like Rey Mysterio, but she may not have the weight to bounce off them.
Running the ropes is such a basic thing, and when someone can't do it, it looks really bad. But AJ can run the ropes. I checked out a match with Tamina, and she bumps well, she can run the ropes, she's fine. As said above, she's not like Beth or Kharma, but she was signed soon after being trained in New Jersey.
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PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,615
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Post by PKO on Mar 26, 2012 13:39:42 GMT -5
Why can't it simply be that 2 good wrestlers had a good match? That's not judgey enough. You have to pass judgement on other fans.
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Post by norsisclouds on Mar 26, 2012 13:54:40 GMT -5
I've only seen two matches of hers. One with Naomi which was one of the best matches that year, and one with Brie Bella which was awkward and pretty much terrible. So I don't really know what to think of AJ. Was it ring rust or was Naomi carrying her completely? Didn't seem like it in their match though, so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. AJ and Naomi are both good. But Naomi is incredible. She's carried many lesser talents to great matches in FCW and NXT. I'm not saying that AJ is bad, but Naomi doesn't get enough credit. I DON"T think that Naomi carried AJ--but I DO think she gets overlooked. She spent more time in FCW because she was one of the best diva wrestlers that could actually work and put on a good match, not because she needed more training.
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