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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 14:10:10 GMT -5
So after the "good on paper, not so good on execution" finale of Season 5, we finally come ahead to the sixth season. Even though it's the end of one story arc and the beginning of another, I'm more than sure we'll still get the same ol' great monster-of-the-week stories and humor we can expect from the show. The new story arc however, we'll see on that. With a new show-runner on hand, who the hell knows what will happen. Either this is a success and the show continues, or it fails and we never talk about this season again, just like the "last" season of Scrubs.  Right now, the show is scheduled to return on Friday, September 24th in the US. That's right, for those of you in the unclear, they moved it to Fridays to be sided up with Smallville. The titles for the first five episodes have been revealed. {Spoiler}6.01: Exile on Main Street
6.02: Two and a Half Men
6.03: The Third Man
6.04: Weekend at Bobby's (to be directed by Jensen Ackles)
6.05: You Can't Handle The Truth And to tide everybody over and to wash a few tastes out of people's mouth, I present you with the 5th season's Gag Reel. Apologies for the video quality. It's a little choppy. "Confetti! It's a PARADE!!!" ;D |
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Post by MGH on Aug 16, 2010 14:12:45 GMT -5
I want to be looking forward to this, seeing as it's been my favorite show for two years now. After reading all the leaks and spoilers though, I can't. At this point they have to win me back, because apparently Sera Gamble wants to make this the new teenie girl CW drama, Supernatural Tree Hill.
Just needed one thing. One spoiler to give me something potentially awesome to cling too. Nothing. It's unreal what it sounds like the show will be this season.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 16, 2010 14:40:51 GMT -5
Just needed one thing. One spoiler to give me something potentially awesome to cling too. Nothing. It's unreal what it sounds like the show will be this season. I think there is one awesome spoiler. {Spoiler}Crowley will be back! He was awesome last season, and should be awesome this season. He's played by Mark freaking Sheppard so he's already got that going for the character.
I don't care about Cas coming back (unless human Cas returns), but Crowley coming back is awesome. |
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Post by MGH on Aug 16, 2010 15:08:40 GMT -5
Just needed one thing. One spoiler to give me something potentially awesome to cling too. Nothing. It's unreal what it sounds like the show will be this season. I think there is one awesome spoiler. {Spoiler}Crowley will be back! He was awesome last season, and should be awesome this season. He's played by Mark freaking Sheppard so he's already got that going for the character.
I don't care about Cas coming back (unless human Cas returns), but Crowley coming back is awesome. {Spoiler}Hey don't get me wrong, I like Crowley and was glad to hear that storyline with Bobby will gain resolution. But ultimately, if I have to sit here and say my biggest and best reason to watch Season 6 is Crowley, there's a problem there. |
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Post by knightrider01 on Aug 16, 2010 16:02:20 GMT -5
Um would anybody mind telling me some of the spoilers for the new season and why it may suck.
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Post by Zombie Mod on Aug 16, 2010 16:08:47 GMT -5
so its another long arsed wait for me then.
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Post by King Boo on Aug 16, 2010 19:17:43 GMT -5
Um would anybody mind telling me some of the spoilers for the new season and why it may suck. Let's see what I can remember. {Spoiler}- there's a one year time jump into the future
- Dean has been living at Lisa's with her and Ben, has retired from hunting and now has a construction job. He's been described as "domesticated" more than once, though they did also say that during this period of domesticity, he still tried to find ways to help Sam and couldn't completely shake his depression and hunting ways
- Dean also doesn't drive the impala anymore
- Sam is back from hell as Sam and does not tell Dean he is back until he is forced to by *something* wanting to get to Dean
- Because of all this, Dean will be mad at Sam for not telling him and Sam will be mad at Dean for still trying to find a way to save him.
- Sam will be more like season one Dean (romps with women, shoot first and ask q's later) and Dean will be all torn and mopey, like season one Sam
I think the time jump being that long is horrible. I don't want to watch domesticated Dean, nor do I understand why Lisa would let this incredibly wounded and psychologically messed up man just move on in to her house and be around her son. There's no real excuse for Sam not telling Dean he's back and he's okay, especially after the grief he caused Dean about telling him about Hell in season four. And frankly, the one good thing about Swan Song is that in the end, the brothers were together as a unit. I was never one of the ones that got immediately sick of them being at odds the last two or so years but once they seemed to get back to being a functioning unit, I kinda wanted them to stay that way. Also, I don't find the swapping of their characteristics to be interesting at all. I think it's lazy, uninspired and that there's a reason Dean is Dean (and thus Jensen is Dean) and Sam is Sam (and thus Jared is Sam.)
This is all just opinion of course and I am more than willing to admit being wrong if it all turns out to be good. so its another long arsed wait for me then. I'm curious as to what you thought of season five, since you didn't get to talk about it with us. I'm with MGH on this one. I'll keep watching because despite the wounds the fifth season ultimately wound up giving me (oh, how deep they do run) it's still my favorite show. I'm just hoping that the things I've heard that they're supposedly doing (I swear, a bunch of it is contradictory) don't completely 1) make me dislike characters I enjoy by making them NOT the characters I've known and 2) make me wish the show ended sooner. With all Sera Gamble has told us so far, I'm kind of scared, which is something I never ever was with this show before. And for the record, this is literally the first time I have EVER complained about the direction this show has taken. I even love season three, which gets totally beat up by most fans. |
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Post by MGH on Aug 16, 2010 20:30:25 GMT -5
Um would anybody mind telling me some of the spoilers for the new season and why it may suck. Let's see what I can remember. {Spoiler}- there's a one year time jump into the future
- Dean has been living at Lisa's with her and Ben, has retired from hunting and now has a construction job. He's been described as "domesticated" more than once, though they did also say that during this period of domesticity, he still tried to find ways to help Sam and couldn't completely shake his depression and hunting ways
- Dean also doesn't drive the impala anymore
- Sam is back from hell as Sam and does not tell Dean he is back until he is forced to by *something* wanting to get to Dean
- Because of all this, Dean will be mad at Sam for not telling him and Sam will be mad at Dean for still trying to find a way to save him.
- Sam will be more like season one Dean (romps with women, shoot first and ask q's later) and Dean will be all torn and mopey, like season one Sam
I think the time jump being that long is horrible. I don't want to watch domesticated Dean, nor do I understand why Lisa would let this incredibly wounded and psychologically messed up man just move on in to her house and be around her son. There's no real excuse for Sam not telling Dean he's back and he's okay, especially after the grief he caused Dean about telling him about Hell in season four. And frankly, the one good thing about Swan Song is that in the end, the brothers were together as a unit. I was never one of the ones that got immediately sick of them being at odds the last two or so years but once they seemed to get back to being a functioning unit, I kinda wanted them to stay that way. Also, I don't find the swapping of their characteristics to be interesting at all. I think it's lazy, uninspired and that there's a reason Dean is Dean (and thus Jensen is Dean) and Sam is Sam (and thus Jared is Sam.)
This is all just opinion of course and I am more than willing to admit being wrong if it all turns out to be good. {Spoiler}This is what I mean. There's so much wrong with this entire picture. I mean, I don't watch SN to see Dean Winchester picking out a box of cereal. I don't watch it to see him taking a kid that isn't his (or better not be) to school. I don't watch it for him doing tax returns. The only people I've seen who do are the two fan girls who police every message board where SN becomes a topic (except this one, thankfully). There's supposedly a scene where Dean accidentally sees the bumper or tailpipe or some part of the Impala when he goes to get something from the garage, and has some super emotional moment. STOP THAT! The Dean the show was built on came back at the end of Point of No Return, and was on full display in Hammer of the Gods. Why are we going back down this emo path again? It wasn't popular when you did it the first time.
Which leads me to something else. The f***ing ROLE REVERSAL! It's SN's favorite plot device, and it's as over done as some bad eggs. If they didn't have it to rely on, I dunno what they'd do. You hit it spot on. There's a reason both of these guys were cast to play their respective characters. Each embodies what each actor is best at. You don't take Jennifer Aniston and make her Monica on Friends after the Vegas trip. You leave well enough alone. Both guys are fleshed out enough as characters after 5 years that we know what we're getting. What we get is good! It works! Leave it alone.
They did all they could to annihilate these characters with Swan Song. But look at what they're trying to do here. Lisa looks awful here. She takes in this emotional trainwreck, and puts her son in the same household as this guy. Knowing what he does, she's willing to risk it for him. Him being a guy she's seen three times in her life and spent all of 24 hours with, if I had to estimate. I liked Lisa in Season 3. This stuff makes me haaaate her.
Not only that, but no one really buys that Lisa is the woman for him. The whole point of the "Dream A Little Dream Of Me" scene was that she was there as representation of what his ideal life would have been, were things different for him. It wasn't HER herself. She was there as a place holder, representing something bigger and more significant. It could have been screaming Cassie, the same thing would have applied.
And What about Dean? Weren't we told in "What Is And What Should Never Be" that despite what Dean would like out of life, he knows he has to be a hunter? How he was born to be what he is, because he can't live knowing he could be helping people killed by the things he hunts down. He can pretend all he wants, but we were told he would never be happy unless he's hunting. It's just who he is. It's his identity. Saving people, hunting things, the family business. It was an early motto for the show. Now? Now he's cool driving a forklift.
Oh, and I haven't forgotten about super hypocrite Sam. Sam who did everything he could, to the point of near madness, to bring Dean back from hell in Season 4. He was furious that Dean dare imply he should have left well enough alone. The same guy who would not let Dean rest until he'd spilled his guts about hell to him. Sam told Dean how torturous it was knowing where Dean was and not being able to do a thing about it. Now Sam is out of hell for a year, and thinks it's all cool to not tell Dean. It's cool to let Dean suffer the same way Sam did. Only this time it's for three times as long. He drives Dean back to near alcoholism, just because he feels he knows what's best for Dean more than Dean does.
The bottom line is Lisa was Sera Gamble's creation, and she's always been a proponent of favoring Sam, and because of it we're getting this. We're getting the drama of Dean's family life. Allegedly, the main story arc for the season will some how mirror Dean's internal struggle between family and his purpose in life.
Who actually WANTS that? I know I'm just being a ray of sunshine here. I'm not trying to bring down anyone's enthusiasm for next season, but from all the things I've read, I just personally can't be excited for this. My hope now is that they prove me wrong and make this in to something great. From the multiple leaks though, they have some heavy lifting to do to get there. |
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Post by thegreatnodnarb on Aug 16, 2010 22:28:00 GMT -5
I guess I was the only one who liked the season 5 finale. Different strokes I guess.
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Post by King Boo on Aug 17, 2010 11:44:49 GMT -5
{Spoiler}This is what I mean. There's so much wrong with this entire picture. I mean, I don't watch SN to see Dean Winchester picking out a box of cereal. I don't watch it to see him taking a kid that isn't his (or better not be) to school. I don't watch it for him doing tax returns. The only people I've seen who do are the two fan girls who police every message board where SN becomes a topic (except this one, thankfully). There's supposedly a scene where Dean accidentally sees the bumper or tailpipe or some part of the Impala when he goes to get something from the garage, and has some super emotional moment. STOP THAT! The Dean the show was built on came back at the end of Point of No Return, and was on full display in Hammer of the Gods. Why are we going back down this emo path again? It wasn't popular when you did it the first time.
Which leads me to something else. The f***ing ROLE REVERSAL! It's SN's favorite plot device, and it's as over done as some bad eggs. If they didn't have it to rely on, I dunno what they'd do. You hit it spot on. There's a reason both of these guys were cast to play their respective characters. Each embodies what each actor is best at. You don't take Jennifer Aniston and make her Monica on Friends after the Vegas trip. You leave well enough alone. Both guys are fleshed out enough as characters after 5 years that we know what we're getting. What we get is good! It works! Leave it alone.
They did all they could to annihilate these characters with Swan Song. But look at what they're trying to do here. Lisa looks awful here. She takes in this emotional trainwreck, and puts her son in the same household as this guy. Knowing what he does, she's willing to risk it for him. Him being a guy she's seen three times in her life and spent all of 24 hours with, if I had to estimate. I liked Lisa in Season 3. This stuff makes me haaaate her.
Not only that, but no one really buys that Lisa is the woman for him. The whole point of the "Dream A Little Dream Of Me" scene was that she was there as representation of what his ideal life would have been, were things different for him. It wasn't HER herself. She was there as a place holder, representing something bigger and more significant. It could have been screaming Cassie, the same thing would have applied.
And What about Dean? Weren't we told in "What Is And What Should Never Be" that despite what Dean would like out of life, he knows he has to be a hunter? How he was born to be what he is, because he can't live knowing he could be helping people killed by the things he hunts down. He can pretend all he wants, but we were told he would never be happy unless he's hunting. It's just who he is. It's his identity. Saving people, hunting things, the family business. It was an early motto for the show. Now? Now he's cool driving a forklift.
Oh, and I haven't forgotten about super hypocrite Sam. Sam who did everything he could, to the point of near madness, to bring Dean back from hell in Season 4. He was furious that Dean dare imply he should have left well enough alone. The same guy who would not let Dean rest until he'd spilled his guts about hell to him. Sam told Dean how torturous it was knowing where Dean was and not being able to do a thing about it. Now Sam is out of hell for a year, and thinks it's all cool to not tell Dean. It's cool to let Dean suffer the same way Sam did. Only this time it's for three times as long. He drives Dean back to near alcoholism, just because he feels he knows what's best for Dean more than Dean does.
The bottom line is Lisa was Sera Gamble's creation, and she's always been a proponent of favoring Sam, and because of it we're getting this. We're getting the drama of Dean's family life. Allegedly, the main story arc for the season will some how mirror Dean's internal struggle between family and his purpose in life.
Who actually WANTS that? I know I'm just being a ray of sunshine here. I'm not trying to bring down anyone's enthusiasm for next season, but from all the things I've read, I just personally can't be excited for this. My hope now is that they prove me wrong and make this in to something great. From the multiple leaks though, they have some heavy lifting to do to get there. {Spoiler}
We're getting the drama of Dean's family life. Allegedly, the main story arc for the season will some how mirror Dean's internal struggle between family and his purpose in life.
*shudder*
No, seriously: *shudder*
The reason why I adore the character of Dean is because while he enjoyed things like no strings attached encounters with women, a cold beer and a silly joke, he also had depth and facets that showed the character wasn't one dimensional and flat. I liked that there was more under the surface and there were people and things he truly cared about; that there were true emotions he just didn't like to show.
Season four rolled around and for the most part, we left all of the fun aspects of Dean aside and focused on the inner turmoil. And that was fine because it was necessary because he had been in hell LITERALLY and now had the weight of the world on his shoulders. They kept loading it on him in season five so he got further and further from how he used to be, but I understood it. Around the second half of the season, I was tired of it, but I kept understanding.
But then. Then they went and pretended that on some level, he was getting back to being more like himself and then they took it all right back and not only made him all emo all over again, they amped it up. Season six appears to be no different.
This drives me crazy because the key is BALANCE. Sam was never really lighthearted the way Dean was, so normal for him is like, 90% angst, 10% humor. But Dean was very much so an even split and it hasn't been that way in ages. To turn around and essentially tell me that Dean is going to be the one with 90% angst and 10% humor just kills me. |
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 17, 2010 12:47:22 GMT -5
{Spoiler}This is what I mean. There's so much wrong with this entire picture. I mean, I don't watch SN to see Dean Winchester picking out a box of cereal. I don't watch it to see him taking a kid that isn't his (or better not be) to school. I don't watch it for him doing tax returns. The only people I've seen who do are the two fan girls who police every message board where SN becomes a topic (except this one, thankfully). There's supposedly a scene where Dean accidentally sees the bumper or tailpipe or some part of the Impala when he goes to get something from the garage, and has some super emotional moment. STOP THAT! The Dean the show was built on came back at the end of Point of No Return, and was on full display in Hammer of the Gods. Why are we going back down this emo path again? It wasn't popular when you did it the first time.
Which leads me to something else. The f***ing ROLE REVERSAL! It's SN's favorite plot device, and it's as over done as some bad eggs. If they didn't have it to rely on, I dunno what they'd do. You hit it spot on. There's a reason both of these guys were cast to play their respective characters. Each embodies what each actor is best at. You don't take Jennifer Aniston and make her Monica on Friends after the Vegas trip. You leave well enough alone. Both guys are fleshed out enough as characters after 5 years that we know what we're getting. What we get is good! It works! Leave it alone.
They did all they could to annihilate these characters with Swan Song. But look at what they're trying to do here. Lisa looks awful here. She takes in this emotional trainwreck, and puts her son in the same household as this guy. Knowing what he does, she's willing to risk it for him. Him being a guy she's seen three times in her life and spent all of 24 hours with, if I had to estimate. I liked Lisa in Season 3. This stuff makes me haaaate her.
Not only that, but no one really buys that Lisa is the woman for him. The whole point of the "Dream A Little Dream Of Me" scene was that she was there as representation of what his ideal life would have been, were things different for him. It wasn't HER herself. She was there as a place holder, representing something bigger and more significant. It could have been screaming Cassie, the same thing would have applied.
And What about Dean? Weren't we told in "What Is And What Should Never Be" that despite what Dean would like out of life, he knows he has to be a hunter? How he was born to be what he is, because he can't live knowing he could be helping people killed by the things he hunts down. He can pretend all he wants, but we were told he would never be happy unless he's hunting. It's just who he is. It's his identity. Saving people, hunting things, the family business. It was an early motto for the show. Now? Now he's cool driving a forklift.
Oh, and I haven't forgotten about super hypocrite Sam. Sam who did everything he could, to the point of near madness, to bring Dean back from hell in Season 4. He was furious that Dean dare imply he should have left well enough alone. The same guy who would not let Dean rest until he'd spilled his guts about hell to him. Sam told Dean how torturous it was knowing where Dean was and not being able to do a thing about it. Now Sam is out of hell for a year, and thinks it's all cool to not tell Dean. It's cool to let Dean suffer the same way Sam did. Only this time it's for three times as long. He drives Dean back to near alcoholism, just because he feels he knows what's best for Dean more than Dean does.
The bottom line is Lisa was Sera Gamble's creation, and she's always been a proponent of favoring Sam, and because of it we're getting this. We're getting the drama of Dean's family life. Allegedly, the main story arc for the season will some how mirror Dean's internal struggle between family and his purpose in life.
Who actually WANTS that? I know I'm just being a ray of sunshine here. I'm not trying to bring down anyone's enthusiasm for next season, but from all the things I've read, I just personally can't be excited for this. My hope now is that they prove me wrong and make this in to something great. From the multiple leaks though, they have some heavy lifting to do to get there. {Spoiler}
We're getting the drama of Dean's family life. Allegedly, the main story arc for the season will some how mirror Dean's internal struggle between family and his purpose in life.
*shudder*
No, seriously: *shudder*
The reason why I adore the character of Dean is because while he enjoyed things like no strings attached encounters with women, a cold beer and a silly joke, he also had depth and facets that showed the character wasn't one dimensional and flat. I liked that there was more under the surface and there were people and things he truly cared about; that there were true emotions he just didn't like to show.
Season four rolled around and for the most part, we left all of the fun aspects of Dean aside and focused on the inner turmoil. And that was fine because it was necessary because he had been in hell LITERALLY and now had the weight of the world on his shoulders. They kept loading it on him in season five so he got further and further from how he used to be, but I understood it. Around the second half of the season, I was tired of it, but I kept understanding.
But then. Then they went and pretended that on some level, he was getting back to being more like himself and then they took it all right back and not only made him all emo all over again, they amped it up. Season six appears to be no different.
This drives me crazy because the key is BALANCE. Sam was never really lighthearted the way Dean was, so normal for him is like, 90% angst, 10% humor. But Dean was very much so an even split and it hasn't been that way in ages. To turn around and essentially tell me that Dean is going to be the one with 90% angst and 10% humor just kills me. {Spoiler}And you know what makes this reboot worse, they had the perfect setup for a great season after the season finale. That being, it was Samifer that came back. That would have made the season finale suck less. Sam and Dean f***ed up on a massive scale, and set forth the events of "The End". If you remember in the last thread, I was an advocate of that.
It would have made perfect sense. There was so much in "The End" that we didn't know, and the season finale really should have laid the ground work for it. Dean didn't have the amulet in the future, Sam said yes in Detroit, the angels weren't around, Croatoan taking years, and Dean saying "Yes" to Michael (I still say he should have said yes, and that his refusal to and Sam saying yes to Lucifer made both kind of look like douches) and Michael not being around.
I'm glad Crowley will be back, and apparently be a recurring character, in particular after they killed 2 of the 3 most entertaining characters. Sorry, for me the most entertaining characters were Zachariah, The Trickster/Gabriel and Crowley. I still think Crowley as God would have been better and made a lot more sense than Chuck as God. I'm not pumped for the reboot. This season has to be better than last season, right? While last season had some good episodes, "The End", "The Real Ghostbusters", and "Changing Channels" to name a few, the payoff was terrible. I don't think even Smallville had that bad of a payoff for everything that show has done in a season, and that's saying a lot. As bad as the Clark vs Doomsday fight was, they at least did something. Hell, non powered Clark vs non powered Zod was a better payoff than what we got on Supernatural. The writers should watch last season of Chuck, to see what happens when you build to something, and deliver on it. They had built to that one thing all season, and something as simple as Chuck sliding under a jump kick was made even more awesome because of it. You were getting the payoff, they weren't going to wuss out of it and not give you what had been building. |
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Post by King Boo on Aug 17, 2010 13:14:58 GMT -5
{Spoiler}And you know what makes this reboot worse, they had the perfect setup for a great season after the season finale. That being, it was Samifer that came back. That would have made the season finale suck less. Sam and Dean f***ed up on a massive scale, and set forth the events of "The End". If you remember in the last thread, I was an advocate of that.
It would have made perfect sense. There was so much in "The End" that we didn't know, and the season finale really should have laid the ground work for it. Dean didn't have the amulet in the future, Sam said yes in Detroit, the angels weren't around, Croatoan taking years, and Dean saying "Yes" to Michael (I still say he should have said yes, and that his refusal to and Sam saying yes to Lucifer made both kind of look like douches) and Michael not being around.
I'm glad Crowley will be back, and apparently be a recurring character, in particular after they killed 2 of the 3 most entertaining characters. Sorry, for me the most entertaining characters were Zachariah, The Trickster/Gabriel and Crowley. I still think Crowley as God would have been better and made a lot more sense than Chuck as God. I'm not pumped for the reboot. This season has to be better than last season, right? While last season had some good episodes, "The End", "The Real Ghostbusters", and "Changing Channels" to name a few, the payoff was terrible. I don't think even Smallville had that bad of a payoff for everything that show has done in a season, and that's saying a lot. As bad as the Clark vs Doomsday fight was, they at least did something. Hell, non powered Clark vs non powered Zod was a better payoff than what we got on Supernatural. The writers should watch last season of Chuck, to see what happens when you build to something, and deliver on it. They had built to that one thing all season, and something as simple as Chuck sliding under a jump kick was made even more awesome because of it. You were getting the payoff, they weren't going to wuss out of it and not give you what had been building. I think it really says something that the fourth episode of the season had a more epic feel and more of the right direction than the actual finale. Before the second half of the season, I felt season five was tons better than season four. But the second half wasn't as good (though it certainly still had its high spots - My Bloody Valentine is an EXCELLENT episode) as the first and the finale rendered an entire arc pointless. I can't even look at the arc the same way because they went and blew a ton of the story to hell. Also, I'm sorry but if you can't do a story as big as the apocalypse right, then DON'T DO IT. I don't watch Smallville so I can't comment on the comparison, but from what you're saying, you sound right. You have to give us SOMETHING. Not just Samifer and Adamichael falling into a hole that didn't look nearly as cool as the hole in the wall from the beginning of the episode and the power of brotherly love. Look, I watch plenty of shows with all that schmoop in it. And while my favorite thing of the show on the whole is the relationship between Sam and Dean, the apocalypse is perhaps not the best time for that message to be conveyed in quite that manner. I mean, you could have had the same thing - the power of the brother's love and support for one another, working together to either succeed or fail as one - without it being so sappy and melodramatic. I hear apocalypse, I want ACTION. I don't watch Supernatural for all the schmoop. Never have, never will. |
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Post by MGH on Aug 17, 2010 13:26:28 GMT -5
I think it really says something that the fourth episode of the season had a more epic feel and more of the right direction than the actual finale. And it truly did, looking back. I agree with Jedi-El on this point, I thought for sure they had to be moving towards a world where The End had become a reality. The first clue being Michael falling in the Langolier hole, thus Dean not being able to finally say yes to him when it's far too late. The world from The End really did feel post-apocalyptic. The world we got from Lucifer walking free now? Not so much. It felt like the world, with him chilling in it sipping on a margarita. I was staunchly in Season 4's corner until just before Abandon All Hope, then I began to sway. I remember at least a dozen posts from me alone in the old thread talking about how the casting for the guest stars had been phenomenal and they really seemed to be building towards something. After Abandon All Hope, it never recovered. Had Swan Song not set off the nuke that wiped out two full seasons worth of work, I think we'd look back on AAH with much more disdain than we do now. Of course, it's no 99 Problems, but what really could be? Yikes. Now there are episodes that are literally unwatchable that I loved before, because the entire story was one big lie. At this point I've reverted back to Season 3 being my favorite season. If they had the budget, I think they could have made this much more visually stimulating. I didn't need a Dragon Ball Z style throw down with Lucifer and Michael, but I needed something. We'd hear stuff on the radio and see tiny TV clips of natural disasters happening all over the world, but when it came down to it you know what the most apocalyptic visual we actually got was? Chicago in the middle of a damn wind storm. THAT'S IT. Well, I guess that and the Langolier hole that roared like it was hungry. This is your apocalypse folks. I guess in hindsight I do wish Dean had said yes, and Sam and Dean both took control long enough to say goodbye and throw themselves in the hole together. World saved, show ends, happy ending in a supernatural way. I mean, better than what seems to be to come. Supernatural Tree Hill, what the CW always wanted! Or at least Sera Gamble. |
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Post by thegreatnodnarb on Aug 17, 2010 14:35:53 GMT -5
They couldn't exactly go with The End way of things because Dean already knows The Colt doesn't do crap against the devil and some other things that wouldn't exactly tie into it. Like I said, I was happy with the ending to Season 5. I wasn't rooting for the apocalypse. I was rooting for Sam and Dean to overcome the odds and stop Michael and Lucifer. They somewhat did that so I was happy. I'm not going to judge Season 6 yet since I haven't see an episode.
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Post by King Boo on Aug 17, 2010 15:42:47 GMT -5
They couldn't exactly go with The End way of things because Dean already knows The Colt doesn't do crap against the devil and some other things that wouldn't exactly tie into it. Like I said, I was happy with the ending to Season 5. I wasn't rooting for the apocalypse. I was rooting for Sam and Dean to overcome the odds and stop Michael and Lucifer. They somewhat did that so I was happy. I'm not going to judge Season 6 yet since I haven't see an episode. I can't speak for anyone but myself but I think we all mean the general feeling and idea of The End. Obviously there are things they couldn't do, like the whole angle with the colt and I don't think any of us meant they needed to follow it to the letter. But that entire episode felt epic and serious and it wasn't the finale. So naturally if episode four shows something that good, one is expecting at least something that's on an equal footing in terms of feel and levity. Swan Song, imo, didn't deliver on that in the slightest. I'm glad you enjoyed the finale. I wish I enjoyed it. I tried finding things I *did* like about it but for me, it was overwhelmingly disappointing. For the arc, for the characters and honestly, for the show. The show's track record for season finales is pretty freaking stellar, I think, and this one is for me (and the majority of others I've spoken to/read) not at all up to par for the standard the show itself set. My second favorite episode of the series is No Rest For The Wicked and a huge part of the reason is the nature of the issue. Dean was on his way to hell and there was a race with the clock to stop it from happening. It was suspenseful, it was emotional and it was brutal to watch when they ultimately failed. And this is just for one person's deal being due, not the end of the world. Swan Song tried so hard on the emotional end that it (again, imo) went horribly overboard and became overwrought with (here's that word again) schmoop. There was never ever a moment where I wasn't rooting for Sam and Dean and I don't really see how wanting to see some action from a storyline about the apocalypse indicates that. There was more action from the car crash scene in Devil's Trap than there was in the whole apocalypse storyline. A hole in the ground does not an epic battle make. I said before that I'm more than willing to admit that season six is good if it turns out that this direction is better than I feel it's going to be. But I don't think there's anything wrong with my (and anyone else) feeling as though the spoilers we know so far don't sound at all interesting or exciting. Besides, this is all we have to go on anyhow, so we might as well discuss it. |
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 19, 2010 8:34:30 GMT -5
But the second half wasn't as good (though it certainly still had its high spots - My Bloody Valentine is an EXCELLENT episode) as the first and the finale rendered an entire arc pointless. I can't even look at the arc the same way because they went and blew a ton of the story to hell. They really did piss it away in the 2nd half. They had Lucifer raise Death, and Jo and Ellen die in the final episode of the 1st half, and they follow it up with 2 stand alone episodes. There was no forward movement in the apocalypse storyline, and that's not good. They forgot all about the Antichrist in the 2nd half, Pestilence and Death were relegated to sharing an episode, they retconned the whole Dean is Michael's only vessel story, the 4 main characters looked like douches, and Sam controlled Lucifer. The last 4 are the worst. War and Famine both got 1 episode each devoted to them. Then they turn around and have the last 2 Horsemen share an episode. They could have thrown out "Swap Meat", and had each of them get an episode. Relegating Death to half an episode is even worse, because it's freaking Death. He's the last Horsemen, he's the most powerful of them all, for crying out loud he even said that he would reap God one day. And you relegate that character to half an episode. I will admit the half of the episode he was in, he owned. I loved that scene with Death and Dean, because the guy playing Death played it perfectly. Death ultimately viewed Dean as insignificant, and not a threat to him, which with what we know, pretty much everything is insignificant and not a threat to Death. All season we were told Dean was Michael's vessel, he was the one. He was the only one that could stop Lucifer. And then they turn around and say Adam can be used by Michael. That's a terrible retcon, the character that was introduced for 1 episode all of a sudden has a huge role in the mytharc, and everything we've been told, doesn't matter. They also never followed up on Dean being able to kill the Whore of Babylon. The 4 main characters all came across as douches as the season went on. It got hard to believe that these 4 characters after all they've been through, would make the decisions they did. Castiel - When Dean wants to say yes to Michael, Cas kicks his ass. When Sam wants to say yes to Lucifer, Cas backs him. What the f***? Bobby - After all the crap he gave Sam and Dean for them making deals, he makes one with Crowley. He also was on board with Sam's plan, because he saw Sam saving people. He also says he and Dean had been hard on Sam, they really weren't hard on Sam. Sam jumpstarted apocalypse and the ones that really had no problem calling Sam on it were the demon possessing Bobby and The Trickster. Sam - Constantly tells Dean that he shouldn't say yes to Michael, even when Dean is going to say yes Sam gets pissed. And then he comes up with the plan to say yes to Lucifer. So Dean can't say yes to Michael, but he can say yes to Lucifer and be able to control him? Dean - Refuses to say yes to Michael, even after seeing the future and finding out that Michael wouldn't leave him a mess. He found out Michael would whoop Lucifer's ass and then leave him, and he still refuses to say yes. He even refuses to say yes after seeing Lucifer tear through a bunch of deities with absolutely no problem. And he supported the plan to control Lucifer. And lastly, Sam being able to control Lucifer was not good. They had a great setup, with Lucifer being able to control Sam, but went with Sam being more powerful. They could have followed the old saying "Pride comes before a fall.", but they didn't. And Sam had a lot of pride, which should have resulted in a fall. This is freaking Lucifer, the ruler of Hell, one of the most powerful beings in creation, and Sam can control him. Let's not forget that Sam couldn't even control Meg, and it took Bobby a lot to get control of a low level demon, even for a second. Now Sam is all of a sudden going to be powerful enough to control Lucifer, after drinking a lot of demon blood. I'll say it again, my 3 favorite characters were Crowley, The Trickster and Zachariah. I know, they were douches, but the writers never told us that they didn't have those qualities. All 3 of them were upfront with it, and we weren't supposed to fell sorry for them. Plus they were more entertaining than Sam, Dean, Bobby and Cas (humanCas was hilarious though). That's all my opinion, your opinions may differ. And it truly did, looking back. I agree with Jedi-El on this point, I thought for sure they had to be moving towards a world where The End had become a reality. Yes! After all last season of you and Roxie disagreeing with me on the Michael situation, I thought Dean should have said yes, you guys agree with me on this. They couldn't exactly go with The End way of things because Dean already knows The Colt doesn't do crap against the devil and some other things that wouldn't exactly tie into it. They couldn't go exactly with everything that happened, but really everything that happened in "The End" fits perfectly with the season and the season finale. Even Cas telling FutureDean, "I like past you.", because Castiel's last line of the season was kind of putting Dean in his place and sounded like Cas was not to happy with Dean. And don't forget what Samifer told Dean. Because Dean won't say yes to Michael or kill Sam, they will always end there. No matter what Dean does, Samifer will always win. |
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Post by King Boo on Aug 19, 2010 11:22:38 GMT -5
But the second half wasn't as good (though it certainly still had its high spots - My Bloody Valentine is an EXCELLENT episode) as the first and the finale rendered an entire arc pointless. I can't even look at the arc the same way because they went and blew a ton of the story to hell. They really did piss it away in the 2nd half. They had Lucifer raise Death, and Jo and Ellen die in the final episode of the 1st half, and they follow it up with 2 stand alone episodes. There was no forward movement in the apocalypse storyline, and that's not good. They forgot all about the Antichrist in the 2nd half, Pestilence and Death were relegated to sharing an episode, they retconned the whole Dean is Michael's only vessel story, the 4 main characters looked like douches, and Sam controlled Lucifer. The last 4 are the worst. War and Famine both got 1 episode each devoted to them. Then they turn around and have the last 2 Horsemen share an episode. They could have thrown out "Swap Meat", and had each of them get an episode. Relegating Death to half an episode is even worse, because it's freaking Death. He's the last Horsemen, he's the most powerful of them all, for crying out loud he even said that he would reap God one day. And you relegate that character to half an episode. I will admit the half of the episode he was in, he owned. I loved that scene with Death and Dean, because the guy playing Death played it perfectly. Death ultimately viewed Dean as insignificant, and not a threat to him, which with what we know, pretty much everything is insignificant and not a threat to Death. All season we were told Dean was Michael's vessel, he was the one. He was the only one that could stop Lucifer. And then they turn around and say Adam can be used by Michael. That's a terrible retcon, the character that was introduced for 1 episode all of a sudden has a huge role in the mytharc, and everything we've been told, doesn't matter. They also never followed up on Dean being able to kill the Whore of Babylon. The 4 main characters all came across as douches as the season went on. It got hard to believe that these 4 characters after all they've been through, would make the decisions they did. Castiel - When Dean wants to say yes to Michael, Cas kicks his ass. When Sam wants to say yes to Lucifer, Cas backs him. What the f***? Bobby - After all the crap he gave Sam and Dean for them making deals, he makes one with Crowley. He also was on board with Sam's plan, because he saw Sam saving people. He also says he and Dean had been hard on Sam, they really weren't hard on Sam. Sam jumpstarted apocalypse and the ones that really had no problem calling Sam on it were the demon possessing Bobby and The Trickster. Sam - Constantly tells Dean that he shouldn't say yes to Michael, even when Dean is going to say yes Sam gets pissed. And then he comes up with the plan to say yes to Lucifer. So Dean can't say yes to Michael, but he can say yes to Lucifer and be able to control him? Dean - Refuses to say yes to Michael, even after seeing the future and finding out that Michael wouldn't leave him a mess. He found out Michael would whoop Lucifer's ass and then leave him, and he still refuses to say yes. He even refuses to say yes after seeing Lucifer tear through a bunch of deities with absolutely no problem. And he supported the plan to control Lucifer. And lastly, Sam being able to control Lucifer was not good. They had a great setup, with Lucifer being able to control Sam, but went with Sam being more powerful. They could have followed the old saying "Pride comes before a fall.", but they didn't. And Sam had a lot of pride, which should have resulted in a fall. This is freaking Lucifer, the ruler of Hell, one of the most powerful beings in creation, and Sam can control him. Let's not forget that Sam couldn't even control Meg, and it took Bobby a lot to get control of a low level demon, even for a second. Now Sam is all of a sudden going to be powerful enough to control Lucifer, after drinking a lot of demon blood. I'll say it again, my 3 favorite characters were Crowley, The Trickster and Zachariah. I know, they were douches, but the writers never told us that they didn't have those qualities. All 3 of them were upfront with it, and we weren't supposed to fell sorry for them. Plus they were more entertaining than Sam, Dean, Bobby and Cas (humanCas was hilarious though). That's all my opinion, your opinions may differ. Yes! After all last season of you and Roxie disagreeing with me on the Michael situation, I thought Dean should have said yes, you guys agree with me on this. They couldn't exactly go with The End way of things because Dean already knows The Colt doesn't do crap against the devil and some other things that wouldn't exactly tie into it. They couldn't go exactly with everything that happened, but really everything that happened in "The End" fits perfectly with the season and the season finale. Even Cas telling FutureDean, "I like past you.", because Castiel's last line of the season was kind of putting Dean in his place and sounded like Cas was not to happy with Dean. And don't forget what Samifer told Dean. Because Dean won't say yes to Michael or kill Sam, they will always end there. No matter what Dean does, Samifer will always win. I agree with basically EVERYTHING you said except I maintain Dean not saying yes was the right thing. I never wavered on that (it's the only character trait they DIDN'T completely shoot to bits.) In truth, my ideal ending is the two of them together with the impala, not at odds, off to make another hunt. But I always felt that Dean succeeding or failing should happen as a human because not only is his one stubborn bastard, but because between the brothers, he's the most human, so to speak. He's the one who's supposed to be more representative of all of us and should stay that way. But everything else you said? I think is 100% right. A lot of it sounds like stuff I got irked by when it happened lol. Cas was a giant hypocrite and also? Kind of a weenie at the end. Bobby was a giant hypocrite and for someone who in the past seemed to have more of a soft spot for Dean, sure treated him like dirt so we could formulate some unneeded and, in this instance, unwarranted sympathy for Sam. Plus, he was whiny. I'm not saying being paralyzed is a cake walk (pun partially intended) but compared to what Sam and especially Dean have been through? Cut it out and stifle, Bobby. Sam. I felt Sam came a ways in being more enjoyable (for me anyways) than he had ever been in the show but him and drinking the demon blood was a major hand-wave retcon because Ruby flat out told Sam in Lucifer Rising that the demon blood was essentially a placebo and that the power to do these things was inside Sam all along. Also, Sam telling Dean what to do with his life by telling him to go to Lisa and not try to help him is not only presumptuous but is where Sam's hypocrisy comes in because Dean asked the same exact thing of him at the end of season three (in terms of not doing anything rash to try and save him. You'll note Dean never told Sam how to live outside of telling him basically to keep on fighting after Sam asked what he was going to do) and he didn't honor it at all. I can't wait for {Spoiler}Sam to get all huffy and mad at Dean for trying to find a way to help him anyway - a way that, as far as we know at this point, doesn't include hanging out with a demon and imbibing her blood. Dean - You could argue Dean was still the one most true to his character. But even then, in their attempts to make him all wounded and full of angst, they completely and totally neglected a whole side of his personality and made him a borderline unbearable emo woobie. Zach, Crowley and especially The Gabester are all awesome. I was legit upset when he died. The problem for me is that for as much as I love(d) them, they aren't/weren't the brothers. The brothers are why I watch the show and when you go tinkering around with who they are for the sake of some (unnecessarily) overly complicated and convoluted storyline, I get pissed. Only two things can make me legit pissed off at what I'm watching - making characters into people they're not and illogical storylines that have no continuity. Supernatural did both those things by the end of season five. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 12:25:02 GMT -5
Episode 6 just got a title. {Spoiler}"Live Free or Twihard" ;D |
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Post by thegreatnodnarb on Aug 23, 2010 0:05:48 GMT -5
I just finished rewatching Season 5 and it seemed a bit rushed at the end. I wish they had another episode of two. The finale was still enjoyable to me. I never really liked Adam as Michael though. Even Sam one episode said something about the angels having a plan b being weird after all that Dean is the true vessel stuff. My main problem with Season 5 would be too much emoness from Bobby and Dean. I'm looking forward to Season 6 though. Hopefully Jeffery Dean Morgan can make one appearance as John Winchester.
On another note, never watch too much Supernatural and then watch Smackdown. I had a dream that The Undertaker was Michael's vessel and Kane was Lucifer's vessel. I guess that actually makes some sense. Fun dream though.
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Post by MGH on Sept 22, 2010 18:27:01 GMT -5
Ready or not, here it comes... (Credit Roxie for sending me this)
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