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Post by King Boo on Jan 28, 2013 12:34:09 GMT -5
papashangoislate.tumblr.com/post/41704501076/papa-shango-is-late-handles-your-crappy-argumentsI think this pretty much sums it up. Punk was the longest reigning heel champion in the history of the company (though TBF he wasn't a hell through the whole reign). He had a longer run than HHH, Cena, HBK, Taker, Rock, Austin, Savage, Jericho, Angle, Lesnar, etc. He held the belt longer than anyone in 25 years. And people are STILL complaining. You know, I was thinking about this. I'm a Steelers fan. Just because they do great one season and win a Super Bowl, does that mean that I sit back and go "Well, that's it! I'm content for the rest of my life as a fan of this team"? No! I want them to win each and every game, each and every season. I'm realistic and realize this won't happen but it doesn't stop me from wanting it to, from rooting for them, because I'm a fan. This thing that because I got something great - which I did, I'm not denying that - I should just cut it out with being bummed out when it ends, or that I should stop wanting more, because then I'm such an ingrate, and someone who clearly doesn't appreciate the business side of something, is such nonsense. It's like no one's allowed to be a fan of something and have any kind of feeling towards what happens. I don't care that I knew about this ages ago. I don't care about the business end of it. I care about who I root for and what I want to happen. It's not a crime to actually root for someone and not give two shits about business or what came before it. I'm invested in now, not the past. And right now, I'm bummed because the guy I enjoyed as champ for 434 days isn't champ anymore. I'm not gonna quit watching and I'm not shaking my fist at the heavens, cursing Vince McMahon's name. I'm just bummed out as a fan.
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Post by DrizzlinShytes on Jan 28, 2013 12:39:01 GMT -5
It's fine to be bummed out as a fan (the dude writing it is a CM Punk fan). It is fine to wish he could be champ forever. (it isn't fine to be a Steelers fan, but I digress...)
However, I feel, and the link I posted goes into it, that some are not being honest. They aren't saying they are just fans and are disappointed from that admittedly irrational aspect. (fan is derivative from the word fanatic after all)
Instead people are acting as if this was bad for business. They are the protectors of business and building new stars. I think that is why the business aspects are being discussed to a large degree. Some people are attacking Rock winning as if it were actually bad for business, bad booking, etc.
If you are disappointed because your guy lost. That's fine. Everyone can get that. But often smarks have to pretend they aren't marks that just worry about the finish. They want to spin it where they are disappointed because the best business wasn't done.
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Post by King Boo on Jan 28, 2013 12:45:36 GMT -5
It's fine to be bummed out as a fan (the dude writing it is a CM Punk fan). It is fine to wish he could be champ forever. (it isn't fine to be a Steelers fan, but I digress...) However, I feel, and the link I posted goes into it, that some are not being honest. They aren't saying they are just fans and are disappointed from that admittedly irrational aspect. (fan is derivative from the word fanatic after all) Instead people are acting as if this was bad for business. They are the protectors of business and building new stars. I think that is why the business aspects are being discussed to a large degree. Some people are attacking Rock winning as if it were actually bad for business, bad booking, etc. If you are disappointed because your guy lost. That's fine. Everyone can get that. But often smarks have to pretend they aren't marks that just worry about the finish. They want to spin it where they are disappointed because the best business wasn't done. Yea I get that, but I mean, it's the same old argument. Some people are upset and say it's bad for business. Then some people who aren't upset argue why it is. It's an annoying argument every single time it comes to pass in any topic that's not established as being about such. I didn't say a single, solitary word about business. Not one. And yet the general consensus seems to be "you got a great title reign, stop being bummed." What? So now I have to be a fan as others see fit? I have to care about things when and how everyone else does? Lastly, you think it's not fine to be a Steelers fan, and I think it's not fine that you're not, but I believe this is what we call a stalemate
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 12:47:51 GMT -5
If it was just Punk vs Rock I wouldn't have really cared much about who won.
But the fact that they have this Rock/Cena thing lined up just sounds really boring. It wasn't even that good last time, so now we're going to do it again except with knowing who wins too. No fun.
I hope they have some stuff to spice it up somehow.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 28, 2013 12:54:33 GMT -5
papashangoislate.tumblr.com/post/41704501076/papa-shango-is-late-handles-your-crappy-argumentsI think this pretty much sums it up. Punk was the longest reigning heel champion in the history of the company (though TBF he wasn't a hell through the whole reign). He had a longer run than HHH, Cena, HBK, Taker, Rock, Austin, Savage, Jericho, Angle, Lesnar, etc. He held the belt longer than anyone in 25 years. And people are STILL complaining. You know, I was thinking about this. I'm a Steelers fan. Just because they do great one season and win a Super Bowl, does that mean that I sit back and go "Well, that's it! I'm content for the rest of my life as a fan of this team"? No! I want them to win each and every game, each and every season. I'm realistic and realize this won't happen but it doesn't stop me from wanting it to, from rooting for them, because I'm a fan. This thing that because I got something great - which I did, I'm not denying that - I should just cut it out with being bummed out when it ends, or that I should stop wanting more, because then I'm such an ingrate, and someone who clearly doesn't appreciate the business side of something, is such nonsense. It's like no one's allowed to be a fan of something and have any kind of feeling towards what happens. I don't care that I knew about this ages ago. I don't care about the business end of it. I care about who I root for and what I want to happen. It's not a crime to actually root for someone and not give two s***s about business or what came before it. I'm invested in now, not the past. And right now, I'm bummed because the guy I enjoyed as champ for 434 days isn't champ anymore. I'm not gonna quit watching and I'm not shaking my fist at the heavens, cursing Vince McMahon's name. I'm just bummed out as a fan. I think the difference is that The Steelers could win every Super Bowl since it's not a fixed sport. Wrestling is, and we knew Punks reign was going to end because it's fiction. I think actual sports and pro-wrestling need to be watched with a different mindset, but that's just me. YMMV.
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Post by DrizzlinShytes on Jan 28, 2013 12:57:12 GMT -5
It's fine to be bummed out as a fan (the dude writing it is a CM Punk fan). It is fine to wish he could be champ forever. (it isn't fine to be a Steelers fan, but I digress...) However, I feel, and the link I posted goes into it, that some are not being honest. They aren't saying they are just fans and are disappointed from that admittedly irrational aspect. (fan is derivative from the word fanatic after all) Instead people are acting as if this was bad for business. They are the protectors of business and building new stars. I think that is why the business aspects are being discussed to a large degree. Some people are attacking Rock winning as if it were actually bad for business, bad booking, etc. If you are disappointed because your guy lost. That's fine. Everyone can get that. But often smarks have to pretend they aren't marks that just worry about the finish. They want to spin it where they are disappointed because the best business wasn't done. Yea I get that, but I mean, it's the same old argument. Some people who are upset and say it's bad for business. Then some people who aren't upset argue why it is. It's an annoying argument every single time it comes to pass in any topic that's not established as being about such. I didn't say a single, solitary word about business. Not one. And yet the general consensus seems to be "you got a great title reign, stop being bummed." What? So now I have to be a fan as others see fit? I have to care about things when and how everyone else does? Lastly, you think it's not fine to be a Steelers fan, and I think it's not fine that you're not, but I believe this is what we call a stalemate I agree it sucks Punk isn't champ anymore. I remember when HBK lost to Austin at WMXIV and I was disappointed. Sure it was great for business. Yeah it was a foregone conclusion. But I still wanted HBK to be the champ. I totally get it. But to be fair, I think some fans have a different perspective. I'm not as diehard about Punk as I was for HBK so I guess I'm just happy he got as far as he did. He's come along way and some fans would rather focus on the great things he did rather than focus on him losing clean to The Rock. Neither perspective is the right one. It is just different ones. And as for the Steelers...I guess the world needs someone to cheer for them.
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Post by King Boo on Jan 28, 2013 12:59:25 GMT -5
You know, I was thinking about this. I'm a Steelers fan. Just because they do great one season and win a Super Bowl, does that mean that I sit back and go "Well, that's it! I'm content for the rest of my life as a fan of this team"? No! I want them to win each and every game, each and every season. I'm realistic and realize this won't happen but it doesn't stop me from wanting it to, from rooting for them, because I'm a fan. This thing that because I got something great - which I did, I'm not denying that - I should just cut it out with being bummed out when it ends, or that I should stop wanting more, because then I'm such an ingrate, and someone who clearly doesn't appreciate the business side of something, is such nonsense. It's like no one's allowed to be a fan of something and have any kind of feeling towards what happens. I don't care that I knew about this ages ago. I don't care about the business end of it. I care about who I root for and what I want to happen. It's not a crime to actually root for someone and not give two s***s about business or what came before it. I'm invested in now, not the past. And right now, I'm bummed because the guy I enjoyed as champ for 434 days isn't champ anymore. I'm not gonna quit watching and I'm not shaking my fist at the heavens, cursing Vince McMahon's name. I'm just bummed out as a fan. I think the difference is that The Steelers could win every Super Bowl since it's not a fixed sport. Wrestling is, and we knew Punks reign was going to end because it's fiction. I think actual sports and pro-wrestling need to be watched with a different mindset, but that's just me. YMMV. So, I'm not supposed to want what I want, just because it's pre-determined? What's the point in liking anyone? What's the point in even watching? We all know how it's going to end and we can't want something because hell, it's all fixed anyhow, so where is the appeal? I like watching good matches and promos as much as the next person, but what makes it really enjoyable is when I can have a horse in the race, when I can have someone to back and cheer for. Why can't I shut off that part of everything that's constantly reminding me it's all pre-determined? Why are we constantly reminding ourselves that it's not real? Maybe that's fun for some others but it's not for me. Like you said, miles may vary, but those varying miles are exactly why everyone needs to stop telling everyone how to feel and what to like/dislike all the time. Yea I get that, but I mean, it's the same old argument. Some people who are upset and say it's bad for business. Then some people who aren't upset argue why it is. It's an annoying argument every single time it comes to pass in any topic that's not established as being about such. I didn't say a single, solitary word about business. Not one. And yet the general consensus seems to be "you got a great title reign, stop being bummed." What? So now I have to be a fan as others see fit? I have to care about things when and how everyone else does? Lastly, you think it's not fine to be a Steelers fan, and I think it's not fine that you're not, but I believe this is what we call a stalemate I agree it sucks Punk isn't champ anymore. I remember when HBK lost to Austin at WMXIV and I was disappointed. Sure it was great for business. Yeah it was a foregone conclusion. But I still wanted HBK to be the champ. I totally get it. But to be fair, I think some fans have a different perspective. I'm not as diehard about Punk as I was for HBK so I guess I'm just happy he got as far as he did. He's come along way and some fans would rather focus on the great things he did rather than focus on him losing clean to The Rock. Neither perspective is the right one. It is just different ones. And as for the Steelers...I guess the world needs someone to cheer for them. I'm sure they do (the different perspective thing), which is why I feel going around telling everyone to get over it (not saying you specifically, just talking generally) isn't right. I never, ever tell anyone how to feel or be a fan because no one's me and I'm not them. If someone's raging? I let em rage. If someone's happy, I let em party on. If I agree, I may commiserate or celebrate. Otherwise, I personally don't care enough to waggle my finger at them, especially since I don't want one waggled at me. And you let me be a fan of my Steelers in peace!
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Jan 28, 2013 13:08:09 GMT -5
You know, I was thinking about this. I'm a Steelers fan. Just because they do great one season and win a Super Bowl, does that mean that I sit back and go "Well, that's it! I'm content for the rest of my life as a fan of this team"? No! I want them to win each and every game, each and every season. I'm realistic and realize this won't happen but it doesn't stop me from wanting it to, from rooting for them, because I'm a fan. This thing that because I got something great - which I did, I'm not denying that - I should just cut it out with being bummed out when it ends, or that I should stop wanting more, because then I'm such an ingrate, and someone who clearly doesn't appreciate the business side of something, is such nonsense. It's like no one's allowed to be a fan of something and have any kind of feeling towards what happens. I don't care that I knew about this ages ago. I don't care about the business end of it. I care about who I root for and what I want to happen. It's not a crime to actually root for someone and not give two s***s about business or what came before it. I'm invested in now, not the past. And right now, I'm bummed because the guy I enjoyed as champ for 434 days isn't champ anymore. I'm not gonna quit watching and I'm not shaking my fist at the heavens, cursing Vince McMahon's name. I'm just bummed out as a fan. I think the difference is that The Steelers could win every Super Bowl since it's not a fixed sport. Wrestling is, and we knew Punks reign was going to end because it's fiction. I think actual sports and pro-wrestling need to be watched with a different mindset, but that's just me. YMMV. Sorry but that makes no sense. Why can't we just be fans and want our guys and girls to go forever? Yeah it's unrealistic but so is watching any sport and hoping that.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 28, 2013 13:11:57 GMT -5
)It is fine to wish he could be champ forever. And I wish they'd stop jobbing out Justin Gabriel. But that's not going to happen either. And yet I have a feeling that that would be seen as more delusional and unrealistic.
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Post by DrizzlinShytes on Jan 28, 2013 13:12:26 GMT -5
I think it is totally cool to just be sad/mad that Punk lost because he's your guy. We can still be marks in the modern era. I personally think we'd all be happier as marks in kayfabe. But most of the discussion is now between those saying Punk should have won for business purposes and those that say he shouldn't have gone over for business reasons.
I hope no one is wagging their finger at Punk fans that are just down because their guy lost. I've often thought the worst losses are the first ones after a long run of success. So Punk losing to The Rock (in some ways the complete opposite of him in every way) has to sting just like Austin beating HBK stung for me.
And we shall drop this Steelers thing...but only for now.
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Post by Triple H buried SnS on Jan 28, 2013 13:14:37 GMT -5
Wrestlemania... where rematches are our new gimmick
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Post by King Boo on Jan 28, 2013 13:15:57 GMT -5
I think it is totally cool to just be sad/mad that Punk lost because he's your guy. We can still be marks in the modern era. I personally think we'd all be happier as marks in kayfabe. But most of the discussion is now between those saying Punk should have won for business purposes and those that say he shouldn't have gone over for business reasons. I hope no one is wagging their finger at Punk fans that are just down because their guy lost. I've often thought the worst losses are the first ones after a long run of success. So Punk losing to The Rock (in some ways the complete opposite of him in every way) has to sting just like Austin beating HBK stung for me. And we shall drop this Steelers thing...but only for now. It does sting Haha. And I don't know, maybe it's me, but I just saw a bunch of general snarky comments directed at the fact that some people were bummed at the ending because how could that be, after everything? I just hate the condescension just because two people don't feel the same way. Your last statement sounds threatening and ominous. DUN DUN DUN.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Jan 28, 2013 13:16:43 GMT -5
Wrestlemania... where rematches are our new gimmick Wrestlemania felt threatened by me and got me fired!
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 28, 2013 13:17:26 GMT -5
First clip? He had it longer than anyone in the modern age of wrestling. He'd have to hold it around 600 more days to pass anyone else. That's not exactly first clip, is it? it is when it comes to proper legendary treats. punk wins that match he is made. he turned the crowd his way being a heel. brilliant performance, so first clip against a man who could have made him then yeah. unlesss you count hhh Punk was made in the feud with Cena, and you just admitted you ignored HHH in that. So no, not really first clip, and the guy still had the longest reign in 25 years.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 28, 2013 13:18:31 GMT -5
I think the difference is that The Steelers could win every Super Bowl since it's not a fixed sport. Wrestling is, and we knew Punks reign was going to end because it's fiction. I think actual sports and pro-wrestling need to be watched with a different mindset, but that's just me. YMMV. So, I'm not supposed to want what I want, just because it's pre-determined? What's the point in liking anyone? What's the point in even watching? We all know how it's going to end and we can't want something because hell, it's all fixed anyhow, so where is the appeal? I like watching good matches and promos as much as the next person, but what makes it really enjoyable is when I can have a horse in the race, when I can have someone to back and cheer for. Why can't I shut off that part of everything that's constantly reminding me it's all pre-determined? Why are we constantly reminding ourselves that it's not real? Maybe that's fun for some others but it's not for me. Like you said, miles may vary, but those varying miles are exactly why everyone needs to stop telling everyone how to feel and what to like/dislike all the time. I'm not saying you can't, but I believe there has to be an acceptance that it's a storyline driven show. Punk lost the belt to close off a chapter and move onto a new one. There are no storylines in sports, it's people competing to be the best and nothing else. I'm a Punk fan too, but I see no appeal in a guy just winning all the time with no end in sight. That's where there's a difference between sport and pro-wrestling. In wrestling, there always comes a time where someone HAS to lose to move onto something else. It's basically what they're there to do. Really though, my issue isn't with people like you, it's the "this is a terrible buisness decision" sentiment that's floating around because some people can't seperate "I want this" to "the vast majority of fans want this". I too have horses I like to back despite them going against buisness sense. And I agree with your last part 100%.
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Post by King Boo on Jan 28, 2013 13:25:28 GMT -5
So, I'm not supposed to want what I want, just because it's pre-determined? What's the point in liking anyone? What's the point in even watching? We all know how it's going to end and we can't want something because hell, it's all fixed anyhow, so where is the appeal? I like watching good matches and promos as much as the next person, but what makes it really enjoyable is when I can have a horse in the race, when I can have someone to back and cheer for. Why can't I shut off that part of everything that's constantly reminding me it's all pre-determined? Why are we constantly reminding ourselves that it's not real? Maybe that's fun for some others but it's not for me. Like you said, miles may vary, but those varying miles are exactly why everyone needs to stop telling everyone how to feel and what to like/dislike all the time. I'm not saying you can't, but I believe there has to be an acceptance that it's a storyline driven show. Punk lost the belt to close off a chapter and move onto a new one. There are no storylines in sports, it's people competing to be the best and nothing else. I'm a Punk fan too, but I see no appeal in a guy just winning all the time with no end in sight. That's where there's a difference between sport and pro-wrestling. In wrestling, there always comes a time where someone HAS to lose to move onto something else. It's basically what they're there to do. Really though, my issue isn't with people like you, it's the "this is a terrible buisness decision" sentiment that's floating around because some people can't seperate "I want this" to "the vast majority of fans want this". I too have horses I like to back dispite them going against buisness sense. And I agree with your last part 100%. I think this may be where we're diverging or not syncing up because I totally accept it's a storyline driven show. Sometimes I get storyline "x" and I'm happy and sometimes I get storyline "y" and I'm not as happy. I don't let that set-up change how I cheer for someone, but I've also already established that I'm not really one to stop watching or throw expletives WWE's way when things don't go the way I prefer. I will, however, be like "boooo" or, as I was in this thread, "laaaaaame." I kind of try to have fun with the fact that I'm bummed out, if that makes sense. Besides, we're Jericho fans. We know what it's like when what I want doesn't match what happens
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 28, 2013 13:30:23 GMT -5
True that.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 28, 2013 13:33:47 GMT -5
I think the difference is that The Steelers could win every Super Bowl since it's not a fixed sport. Wrestling is, and we knew Punks reign was going to end because it's fiction. I think actual sports and pro-wrestling need to be watched with a different mindset, but that's just me. YMMV. Sorry but that makes no sense. Why can't we just be fans and want our guys and girls to go forever? Yeah it's unrealistic but so is watching any sport and hoping that. You know, I'm think I'm just really weird about long winning streaks. I got bored when my football (soccer) team were champs for 3 years running, so yeah. It's also why HHH is my least favourite wrestler.
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Post by Snaptastic on Jan 28, 2013 13:45:11 GMT -5
I think the difference is that The Steelers could win every Super Bowl since it's not a fixed sport. Wrestling is, and we knew Punks reign was going to end because it's fiction. I think actual sports and pro-wrestling need to be watched with a different mindset, but that's just me. YMMV. Sorry but that makes no sense. Why can't we just be fans and want our guys and girls to go forever? Yeah it's unrealistic but so is watching any sport and hoping that. Because in a fixed sport, there are inevitabilities that some things will never last forever. An NFL team could theoretically go on an infinite winning streak. A WWE wrestler never will. Punk had a longer reign than I felt was needed, and in my book he can thank Rock that it went on as long as it did. I can guarantee that had Rock never came back, Punk would have dropped the belt at NoC. Also Rock would have never been given the title if he hadn't popped two 1 million+ buys at Mania in a row. I have no problem with someone who does that for business, being given the top spot for a few months. Sure I don't care for who he's going to drop it to, but it's not like Cena wasn't going to win it ever again. Also let's not beat around the bush. This Cena/Rock match is just going to end up being the prelude to Rock/Cena III.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Jan 28, 2013 13:54:58 GMT -5
Sorry but that makes no sense. Why can't we just be fans and want our guys and girls to go forever? Yeah it's unrealistic but so is watching any sport and hoping that. Because in a fixed sport, there are inevitabilities that some things will never last forever. An NFL team could theoretically go on an infinite winning streak. A WWE wrestler never will. Punk had a longer reign than I felt was needed, and in my book he can thank Rock that it went on as long as it did. I can guarantee that had Rock never came back, Punk would have dropped the belt at NoC. Also Rock would have never been given the title if he hadn't popped two 1 million+ buys at Mania in a row. I have no problem with someone who does that for business the top spot for a few months. Sure I don't care for who he's going to drop it to, but it's not like Cena wasn't going to win it ever again. Expecting/hoping for your team to go undefeated for a long time is just about as realistic as hoping for your favorite wrestler to do it as well. Hell actually it's more realistic for a wrestler to do it since he can be booked that way. It's fandom, people wanting what they want. Let people want and like what they want, why is that so hard to except? Why can't we just be fans at some point, business be damned? Not everything we talk about and do needs to focus on what is right for business. Yes we talk about what we think would be best and I'll guarantee 99% of us know Rock defending the title is best for this year but that is not what we want and there is not a damned thing wrong with it. Yes, we talk about the business side and wanting to see them do something special, to build up new people but that doesn't mean we aren't doing that to see the guys we want get there. It's all fandom but at some point people forgot that.
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