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Post by Red Impact on Mar 28, 2012 19:38:00 GMT -5
The code name idea is idiotic since it would mean that a few of them have a wife with the same name, love the same drink. It also ruins the mystique. He's not "one of the James Bonds", he James Motherf***ing Bond. Why would M use it like a personal name? George Lazenby reminisces over artifacts from the Connery movies in one scene. Timothy Dalton LEAVES M16 and is still James Bond. The flashbacks in Goldeneye take place before the Dalton movies chronologically, so if we are trying to piece them together as one continuity (which makes as much sense as putting Batman and Robin and The Dark Knight in the same continuity) that is a problem. He's described in the book as looking like this guy, Hoagy Carmichael, but with something more cold and ruthless, and a bit more dashing/handsome. Honestly aside from Roger Moore they have done a pretty good job of hitting in the ballpark in terms of character type. Craig's only downside is that he is blonde, but he has more than captured the cold intensity that none of the other Bond's quite conjured up. Casting him as a black guy would just be stupid stunt-casting. If you want to make a movie with a James Bond-esqe cool spy with a black guy, go right ahead. See, the only thing I don't get about the canon is that Casino Royale is set after the Cold War, but the movie shows Bond's first mission as a OO agent. That got to me when I was watching.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,986
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Post by chazraps on Mar 28, 2012 20:38:07 GMT -5
You're right, there IS no racial component to Spider-Man.....except Peter Parker's white. He's always been white. Since the 60's, he's been white. That's what the character IS. Putting a "black nerd" comedian in the suit is a huge deviation from that. But being white was never critical or even really mentioned as part of his character. He's no more defined by that than he is having brown hair. Exactly. How would the Spider-Man story be any different if he were black? If anything, it would further enhance the themes of the responsibility to continue to help the people who fear and hate him, as well as potentially increase the adversity the character would face.
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Post by Michael Coello on Mar 28, 2012 20:41:17 GMT -5
But being white was never critical or even really mentioned as part of his character. He's no more defined by that than he is having brown hair. Exactly. How would the Spider-Man story be any different if he were black? It would make J. Jonah Jameson racist?
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,986
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Post by chazraps on Mar 28, 2012 20:42:45 GMT -5
Exactly. How would the Spider-Man story be any different if he were black? It would make J. Jonah Jameson racist? You mean he's not?
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Post by BorneAgain on Mar 28, 2012 20:43:38 GMT -5
Exactly. How would the Spider-Man story be any different if he were black? It would make J. Jonah Jameson racist? Not necessarily. If you were to feature a white Betty Brant, white Ben Urich/Ned Leeds, black Robbie, and black Peter, and Jameson's yelling at all of them, it just shows Jameson's a dick to everybody.
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MCMGM
Vegeta
WC's Official Jeff Buckley Stalkeress.
Red Sonic My Ass
Posts: 9,184
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Post by MCMGM on Mar 28, 2012 22:03:09 GMT -5
But a black Spider-Man makes sense in regard to #1 you can't really tell who is under the suit and #2 the crux of Peter Parker's existence is that he's a nerdy outsider sudden given power but has to maintain his responsibilities in both of his lives. There's no racial component in Spider-Man lore whatsoever. I'm not too familiar with the Bond franchise, so has it been implied it's been the same guy this entire time? You're right, there IS no racial component to Spider-Man.....except Peter Parker's white. He's always been white. Since the 60's, he's been white. That's what the character IS. Putting a "black nerd" comedian in the suit is a huge deviation from that. The only difference is a few shades of color. I fail to see the big deal.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Mar 28, 2012 22:08:33 GMT -5
You're right, there IS no racial component to Spider-Man.....except Peter Parker's white. He's always been white. Since the 60's, he's been white. That's what the character IS. Putting a "black nerd" comedian in the suit is a huge deviation from that. The only difference is a few shades of color. I fail to see the big deal. Continuity, is the big deal. I could give a shit less if he was black, indian, chinese, whatever. But Peter Parker's white. Always has been. It's not a big deal to the story, but that's just what Peter Parker is, white. But, I guess progressing a comedian who's gimmick is "I'm black...AND A NERD! Isn't that hilarious?" is the bigger issue than half a century of continuity.
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Post by BorneAgain on Mar 28, 2012 22:33:53 GMT -5
But something like an adaptation's always open to certain changes, continuity included. No one's suggesting that we go back and make Parker black in every single one of his comics or anything.
Hugh Jackman's a foot taller than Wolverine's ever been portrayed in the comics, yet he did a solid job with the role. Both of the live action Alfred Pennyworths look nothing like the comic variation, but each fulfilled their role in the story. Hell, Osborn as the Green Goblin looked like a damn power ranger in the first film, and he still made it kind of work.
Speaking for myself Peter Parker's race concerns me far less than if he's a genius nerd snarker who embodies the elements of being your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Mar 28, 2012 22:52:46 GMT -5
Also, if we're gonna be sticklers about adaptation, then you'd have to critique nearly every single version of Magneto outside of the comic books since for a German survivor of the Holcaust, he's very British in nearly recent adaptation, and was very American before that. Matter of fact, I don't think there's ever been a single Magneto adaptation with a German accent.
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Post by Lazy peon on Mar 28, 2012 22:54:04 GMT -5
Why make James Bond black? Or a woman? Or gay? Why not just... MAKE A NEW CHARACTER, IN A NEW MOVIE.
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Post by Michael Coello on Mar 28, 2012 22:56:38 GMT -5
Make him an alien from outer space.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Mar 28, 2012 22:59:27 GMT -5
Why make James Bond black? Or a woman? Or gay? Why not just... MAKE A NEW CHARACTER, IN A NEW MOVIE. This is an outstanding point. If you wanna write the "black James Bond", for want of a better term, why not just....come up with a black, James Bond like character? It's not like Bond's got the monopoly on "over the top spy stories".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 23:00:19 GMT -5
They changed Felix's race for "Casino Royale", I wonder if that bothered anyone? Obviously, he's not a main character but did purists dislike that?
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Mar 28, 2012 23:05:09 GMT -5
They changed Felix's race for "Casino Royale", I wonder if that bothered anyone? Obviously, he's not a main character but did purists dislike that? There are probably those out there that did. Recently, there's been a story about people talking about how The Hunger Games was "ruin't forever" because they cast a black actress for a character described in the book as having dark skin; the complaint being that the character wasn't explicitly said to be black, but then again, she wasn't explicitly said to be anything and it was pretty much select to interpretation.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Mar 28, 2012 23:10:24 GMT -5
You're right, there IS no racial component to Spider-Man.....except Peter Parker's white. He's always been white. Since the 60's, he's been white. That's what the character IS. Putting a "black nerd" comedian in the suit is a huge deviation from that. Obviously, you are unaware of the "Ultimate Comics" universe Spider-Man. The problem there isn't "Peter Parker is this universe is black", it's "Peter Parker has been killed and replaced by an entirely new character". Now, THAT, is something some could be rightly upset about.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,435
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Post by FinalGwen on Mar 28, 2012 23:20:32 GMT -5
I still wish Paul McGann could have been Bond at the time that Brosnan got it. Awesome actor.
And, on a related note, I don't believe the argument that James Bond is a codename to explain the appearance changes. The answer's far simpler. James Bond is a Time Lord, currently in his 7th incarnation.
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Post by Loki-A-Go-Go! on Mar 28, 2012 23:26:47 GMT -5
I still wish Paul McGann could have been Bond at the time that Brosnan got it. Awesome actor. And, on a related note, I don't believe the argument that James Bond is a codename to explain the appearance changes. The answer's far simpler. James Bond is a Time Lord, currently in his 7th incarnation. 1, Sean Connery 2. George Lazenby 3. Roger Moore 4. Timothy Dalton 5. Pierce Brosnan 6. Daniel Craig Are we counting Barry Nelson or David Niven to make it 7?
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Mar 28, 2012 23:27:38 GMT -5
They changed Felix's race for "Casino Royale", I wonder if that bothered anyone? Obviously, he's not a main character but did purists dislike that? I was more mad that he was not full Texan and less on the race. Hell, they change Felix more often then they change socks. But Feilix is supposed to be hardcore Texan... And UN Jefferson already played Feilix in 83 in the unofficial Bond movie
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 28, 2012 23:46:33 GMT -5
I remember a rumour once (and by rumour I mean "saw it in a newspaper") that Eminem was considered.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,986
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Post by chazraps on Mar 28, 2012 23:57:35 GMT -5
The only difference is a few shades of color. I fail to see the big deal. Continuity, is the big deal. I could give a s*** less if he was black, indian, chinese, whatever. But Peter Parker's white. Always has been. It's not a big deal to the story, but that's just what Peter Parker is, white. How is it a manner of continuity if it's a reboot? Peter Parker is a character of fiction with no racial implications to his origin or story. Splitting hairs about his race makes as much sense to me as being upset the Green Goblin is on his Glider instead of his rocket-broomstick the first time we see him. Should no black actors ever play Romeo? Your reasoning for getting upset about a movie where Peter Parker is black seems comparable for being upset his origin story doesn't take place in 1962. That's when he was bit by the spider, right?
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