The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Jul 27, 2012 21:09:02 GMT -5
For me it's not so much that I want Triple H to lose because he doesn't need the victory, it's just that I'm sick of Triple H and I'm ready for new faces. Lesnar isn't new, but he was gone for years and really wasn't there all that long the first time. The good thing about pairing Lesnar and Triple H is that a victory either way is a plausible scenario (Lesnar is in the middle of a monster push and is a special attraction, Triple H "has to go over because he's Triple H"), the problem is that you can't put either guy over without leaving a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. A lot of fans and especially kids will naturally want to see the bad guy (Lesnar) lose, but there will likely be plenty of people who want to see Lesnar beat Triple H's ass and beat it good, for a number of reasons. In that respect it's a bit of a lose-lose from a booking standpoint.
I will say this though, if Lesnar completes this run and all he does is job to WWE's golden boys it's gonna seem like it was all a vanity project for either Vince or Triple H.
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Post by The Portable Stove on Jul 27, 2012 21:14:26 GMT -5
I'm not going to turn this into a conversation about the man himself, but it reminds me of what Cornette said regarding The Undertaker and Kane's first match being built from October of 1997 to March of 1998. The idea was supposed to be that Taker doesn't want to fight Kane, so Kane was going to run roughshod over the WWF until Taker finally agreed to the match.
A few weeks in, Taker chokeslammed Kane through a table, thus forcing them to make Kane into a wrestler and do this and that to keep them from wrestling until WrestleMania.
I'm not saying it was a bad idea for Triple H to look like he's on equal footing, but you have a man who hasn't wrestled on an active basis since 2010 fighting a relatively in-shape former UFC Champion, and making him look less like a beast and more like just another man. Which of course, is going to result in Triple H winning. It makes sense, but it's going to ruin Lesnar.
Hell. Honestly, what I'd like to see IS Triple H losing, and it appearing that Lesnar's going on another rampage. And of all people they send to fight him? Sheamus. World Heavyweight Championship. That is of course if they break him out of the generic face Sheamus that he is, and turn him back into an Irish Badass that'll fight someone tougher than him just because he likes fighting, not because it's the right thing to do.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Jul 27, 2012 21:16:45 GMT -5
I like that idea. That could really help make Sheamus if he beat Lesnar after Triple H was unable to do so. That would require both Lesnar AND Sheamus being booked stronger than Triple H though, do you think his ego could take it?
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 27, 2012 21:32:12 GMT -5
the problem with Lesnar being totally dominant and Hunter being scared of him is that Hunter didn't have to ask for a match and Lesnar doesn't particularly want one. So if Hunter doesn't think he has a chance the match shouldn't happen at all. And as for Lesnar going on a rampage, we're in the era where we acknowledge people can be fired.
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Post by KRUGkiller on Jul 27, 2012 21:40:05 GMT -5
if triple h wins we will never hear the end of it from iwc
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jul 27, 2012 22:03:48 GMT -5
if triple h wins we will never hear the end of it from iwc And rightfully so. It's terrible booking and business at this juncture (unless it's Brock's last match).
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Jul 27, 2012 23:17:51 GMT -5
if triple h wins we will never hear the end of it from iwc And rightfully so. It's terrible booking and business at this juncture (unless it's Brock's last match). How do we know it will be bad business exactly? The way I see it is Triple H is a fan favorite, beating Brock will please fans, next time Brock shows up the fans wil pay money again to see him lose again. rinse, wash, repeat.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2012 23:55:45 GMT -5
if triple h wins we will never hear the end of it from iwc And rightfully so. It's terrible booking and business at this juncture (unless it's Brock's last match). Even if it is Brock's last match, why not have Brock put someone over who can actually use it? Triple H gains zero from beating anyone, and the fact that he's not even an active wrestler means it's literally pointless for him to win a match, besides making fans of his happy of course.
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Post by cool guy on Jul 28, 2012 3:26:44 GMT -5
And rightfully so. It's terrible booking and business at this juncture (unless it's Brock's last match). Even if it is Brock's last match, why not have Brock put someone over who can actually use it? Triple H gains zero from beating anyone, and the fact that he's not even an active wrestler means it's literally pointless for him to win a match, besides making fans of his happy of course. If it's Brock's last match, he ought to put over Sheamus, if anyone. I mean, he's a big guy that can go toe-to-toe with Brock in terms of power, and needs some credible opponents at this point.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jul 28, 2012 3:36:42 GMT -5
And rightfully so. It's terrible booking and business at this juncture (unless it's Brock's last match). How do we know it will be bad business exactly? The way I see it is Triple H is a fan favorite, beating Brock will please fans, next time Brock shows up the fans wil pay money again to see him lose again. rinse, wash, repeat. We know it's bad business because a WrestleMania payoff is what will draw and has drawn the most money. Not a one-off vanity win for HHH in the middle of Lesnar's deal. And no, they will not keep paying to see a monster get beat over and over again. He's not that kind of heel. He's not Honky Tonk Man or even Ted DiBiase. He's a monster (a legit monster with real-life credibility that casual people believe can kill dudes legit). And monster's are worthless when shown to be continuously vulnerable. And unlike others who perservered like Kane, given angles to make up for looking human, Brock won't have that. He's going to have 3 matches (maybe 4) total. And in those 3, he needs to win at least one for momentum going into the one that matters, because we won't ever see him again after that. If Batman beat the shit out of Bane in the beginning of Dark Knight Rises, would it even matter if Batman did it again? If Rocky beat Clubber Lang out of the gate, who'd care about Lang after that, or even a rematch? Wrestling is a movie. These things should progress logically. Not be fodder for an insecure man who truly believes fake pinning people makes him the best ever. That said, I don't even care if it is in fact HHH that beats Brock in the end at WRESTLEMANIA. That might even be poetic justice that HHH, as COO and eventual heir-apparent, runs the guy out of town after suffering his mandatory Rocky 3 destruction in their first match. And if not? HHH needs to channel Rocky 4 and take his needed Apollo Creed killing, and let the real hero shine in the end.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 28, 2012 3:41:52 GMT -5
if triple h wins we will never hear the end of it from iwc Or HHH
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Jul 28, 2012 3:44:37 GMT -5
And rightfully so. It's terrible booking and business at this juncture (unless it's Brock's last match). How do we know it will be bad business exactly? The way I see it is Triple H is a fan favorite, beating Brock will please fans, next time Brock shows up the fans wil pay money again to see him lose again. rinse, wash, repeat. Who pays to see the same heel look like a joke and lose every match he's in? If it worked like that, heel jobbers would be the biggest cash cows in the WWE. After his loss to Cena, Lesnar needs this win to build him up. Then once he looks like an unstoppable monster, you have a top face finally beat him, then use that momentum to give the face a big push. That's where the money is going to come from. Not from giving a semi-retired wrestler an ego stroke only to have him go right back behind the scenes, making the win pretty pointless.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 28, 2012 3:48:28 GMT -5
I like that idea. That could really help make Sheamus if he beat Lesnar after Triple H was unable to do so. That would require both Lesnar AND Sheamus being booked stronger than Triple H though, do you think his ego could take it? Sheamus is probably the strongest-booked full-time guy in the company right now, and he's a Triple H project to boot (which probably led to the first part to be truthful) so I guess he'd be fine with it. If they keep that up and give him back a bit more of his personality, a Lesnar/Sheamus match could be damn good.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Jul 28, 2012 8:57:07 GMT -5
How do we know it will be bad business exactly? The way I see it is Triple H is a fan favorite, beating Brock will please fans, next time Brock shows up the fans wil pay money again to see him lose again. rinse, wash, repeat. We know it's bad business because a WrestleMania payoff is what will draw and has drawn the most money. Not a one-off vanity win for HHH in the middle of Lesnar's deal. And no, they will not keep paying to see a monster get beat over and over again. He's not that kind of heel. He's not Honky Tonk Man or even Ted DiBiase. He's a monster (a legit monster with real-life credibility that casual people believe can kill dudes legit). And monster's are worthless when shown to be continuously vulnerable. And unlike others who perservered like Kane, given angles to make up for looking human, Brock won't have that. He's going to have 3 matches (maybe 4) total. And in those 3, he needs to win at least one for momentum going into the one that matters, because we won't ever see him again after that. If Batman beat the s*** out of Bane in the beginning of Dark Knight Rises, would it even matter if Batman did it again? If Rocky beat Clubber Lang out of the gate, who'd care about Lang after that, or even a rematch? Wrestling is a movie. These things should progress logically. Not be fodder for an insecure man who truly believes fake pinning people makes him the best ever. That said, I don't even care if it is in fact HHH that beats Brock in the end at WRESTLEMANIA. That might even be poetic justice that HHH, as COO and eventual heir-apparent, runs the guy out of town after suffering his mandatory Rocky 3 destruction in their first match. And if not? HHH needs to channel Rocky 4 and take his needed Apollo Creed killing, and let the real hero shine in the end. Here is my main problem with the "monster" deal. Brock has never once been portrayed as an actual monster since he came back. Every single time he showed up Brock comes across as just some jackass who picks on guys smaller than him and thinks he's entitled to everything because he is "legit." He's not a monster. He was never a monster.
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Post by joebob27 on Jul 28, 2012 9:46:30 GMT -5
We know it's bad business because a WrestleMania payoff is what will draw and has drawn the most money. Not a one-off vanity win for HHH in the middle of Lesnar's deal. And no, they will not keep paying to see a monster get beat over and over again. He's not that kind of heel. He's not Honky Tonk Man or even Ted DiBiase. He's a monster (a legit monster with real-life credibility that casual people believe can kill dudes legit). And monster's are worthless when shown to be continuously vulnerable. And unlike others who perservered like Kane, given angles to make up for looking human, Brock won't have that. He's going to have 3 matches (maybe 4) total. And in those 3, he needs to win at least one for momentum going into the one that matters, because we won't ever see him again after that. If Batman beat the s*** out of Bane in the beginning of Dark Knight Rises, would it even matter if Batman did it again? If Rocky beat Clubber Lang out of the gate, who'd care about Lang after that, or even a rematch? Wrestling is a movie. These things should progress logically. Not be fodder for an insecure man who truly believes fake pinning people makes him the best ever. That said, I don't even care if it is in fact HHH that beats Brock in the end at WRESTLEMANIA. That might even be poetic justice that HHH, as COO and eventual heir-apparent, runs the guy out of town after suffering his mandatory Rocky 3 destruction in their first match. And if not? HHH needs to channel Rocky 4 and take his needed Apollo Creed killing, and let the real hero shine in the end. Here is my main problem with the "monster" deal. Brock has never once been portrayed as an actual monster since he came back. Every single time he showed up Brock comes across as just some jackass who picks on guys smaller than him and thinks he's entitled to everything because he is "legit." He's not a monster. He was never a monster. Huh, he's interacted with exactly two guys on the roster? Cena and Trips. And if you don't think he's been booked as a monster before maybe you should go back and look at his debut period the first time around.
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Post by KobashiChop on Jul 28, 2012 10:00:00 GMT -5
And rightfully so. It's terrible booking and business at this juncture (unless it's Brock's last match). How do we know it will be bad business exactly? The way I see it is Triple H is a fan favorite, beating Brock will please fans, next time Brock shows up the fans wil pay money again to see him lose again. rinse, wash, repeat. He will have had 2 big marquee matches and lost them both. His big "legitimacy" monster credibility will be down the toilet if he has done all this stalling, and still cant win the match. The more i think about it, the more worried I am that HHH is winning.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 28, 2012 10:04:30 GMT -5
WWE might pull the "HHH lost the match....but Lesnar was the one who needed assistance to leave the ring" kind of thing, like they did with the Undertaker.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Jul 28, 2012 10:07:12 GMT -5
Here is my main problem with the "monster" deal. Brock has never once been portrayed as an actual monster since he came back. Every single time he showed up Brock comes across as just some jackass who picks on guys smaller than him and thinks he's entitled to everything because he is "legit." He's not a monster. He was never a monster. Watching the Extreme Rules match, I don't see how Lesnar could come off as anything but a monster.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 28, 2012 14:54:59 GMT -5
the character Lesnar's playing strikes me as a thug. When he backs down the ramp, it's not really because he's scared of losing or of being hurt, but the only reason he fights is to injure people.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2012 16:55:52 GMT -5
I could see this match having some big stipulation added at the 11th hour that will make the winner more obvious
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