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Post by Snaptastic on Jul 26, 2012 5:11:44 GMT -5
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Ryanar
Samurai Cop
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Post by Ryanar on Jul 26, 2012 5:35:41 GMT -5
Lets call it like it is, They did essentially kill his momentum regardless of his skill. That whole cluster of a storyline put a huge dent in the Ryder Revolution vehicle. And it killed whatever credibility was restored to the US title.
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
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Tolerated, just not practically liked.
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Jul 26, 2012 5:38:38 GMT -5
To be honest, whatever way you look at it, I don't think WWE ever had any intention on making Ryder one of it's next big breakthrough stars.
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Paco on Jul 26, 2012 5:39:57 GMT -5
The Kane and Eve THING...which is true.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 5:50:24 GMT -5
Killing his career is a bit too far, he can still recover and he's still over with the crowd. However, that storyline undoubtedly killed his momentum and made him look like a fool.
The fact that he stuck around with Eve even AFTER she had specifically told everyone that he'd used Cena and Zack to further her career was completely idiotic.
As for the US title, I'm fine with anyone on the roster, even another babyface like Zack, taking the title off of Santino.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jul 26, 2012 5:50:46 GMT -5
It's not them, it's the fact that he couldn't act his way out of a paper bag during it and looked like a complete fool who deserved no sympathy. He says that's the reason he can't be taken seriously, but he already had segments before that where he came off as an idiot who isn't funny.
Just look at that last sentence. THREE YEARS? He should have tweaked his character back in December and didn't do it, and now he's going to wait three years? Hate to break it to ya buddy, but you probably won't be in the WWE in three years.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Jul 26, 2012 5:54:35 GMT -5
The "WE WANT RYDER" thing was indeed huge late last year...but then when people got Ryder, he just wasn't that impressive.
He's the wrestling equivalent of Snakes on a Plane.
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Post by turkeysandwich on Jul 26, 2012 5:57:44 GMT -5
I get what he's saying. He's right that he needed to get revenge on them when people remembered what he was getting revenge for and not in July. I liked the stuff he did with Kane and Eve, but it should have led to Ryder vs Kane at Wrestlemania, instead of just being another storyline to give the star of the show something to do until The Rock returned.
I wanted Kane to torture Zack even more in a buildup to Wrestlemania, so that Zack winning would've been a feel good moment. Instead, we got a Orton/Kane feud that seemed to come out of nowhere and Zack being shoehorned into the Team Teddy match. I'm not even sure if he was ever supposed to be in that match, maybe I'm a mark, but I honestly think he only got on Wrestlemania due to all the online campaigning.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jul 26, 2012 5:58:15 GMT -5
What happened with Zack Ryder was he became a victim of WWE Creative's Cena Storyline Of The Month and their Heel Turn of Eve. Now WWE views Zack as they view Santino as a comedy character.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jul 26, 2012 6:03:12 GMT -5
What happened with Zack Ryder was he became a victim of WWE Creative's Cena Storyline Of The Month and their Heel Turn of Eve. Now WWE views Zack as they view Santino as a comedy character. What else should he be? His gimmick's a guido from Long Island whose catchphrases use the words "fist pump" and "broski." Trust me, as someone from Long Island, I know he shouldn't be taken seriously.
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
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Post by trollrogue on Jul 26, 2012 6:11:28 GMT -5
In reality, Ryder is pretty much on equal footing with Santino Marella-- they are both heavily over midcard faces who can believably hold the midcard belts (in Ryder's case he also has the Internet Championship which is unique to him).
So it's not a case of Ryder's career being 'killed', more like he's upset at where he's landed on the Superstar Totem Pole-- he'll never get to main event status with his Broski gimmick, just like Santino will never be a World Champion when he's still basically a few degrees past Hornswoggle as far as serious competition.
If he wants to break the glass ceiling into the main event, yes he'll hafta change his gimmick. That'd be a huge risk, since again, he's hella over as a midcard face now and a gimmick change would push him back to the end of the line... and if I were him in this age of Team Bring It and Lesnar Returns, I'd take what I can get as far as TV time (Ryder's at a better spot than being where Alex Riley is, for example).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 6:20:00 GMT -5
Look I could be getting the wrong end of the stick, but I think Ryder needs to be careful with how he's wording things. You're right, what he's saying might sound innocent to us but the WWE brass might take it a whole other way...
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Post by Snaptastic on Jul 26, 2012 6:29:59 GMT -5
Just to clarify, I've edited the thread title to properly reflect what was said.
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Post by bearned on Jul 26, 2012 6:30:43 GMT -5
I hear people say that when the fans 'got' Ryder after months of chanting for him etc they then went 'meh' and didn't care for him.
However, I'd say that was more the way he was booked (as a total idiot) rather than anything wrong with Ryder himself. Okay his character is basically an enthusiastic simpleton underdog BUT they made him a total chump. How can fans keep getting behind someone who was getting destroyed every week?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jul 26, 2012 6:39:43 GMT -5
I hear people say that when the fans 'got' Ryder after months of chanting for him etc they then went 'meh' and didn't care for him. However, I'd say that was more the way he was booked (as a total idiot) rather than anything wrong with Ryder himself. Okay his character is basically an enthusiastic simpleton underdog BUT they made him a total chump. How can fans keep getting behind someone who was getting destroyed every week? It wasn't so much the booking as it was the guy who was getting beat up. Look at some of his promos prior to the Kane stuff with Eve and Jack Swagger, or the Bryan/Punk/Ryder promo. He wouldn't have looked as much like a total chump if he had the mic skills to back himself up, but he sounded TERRIBLE in some of his segments. Personally, I didn't hate Cena/Kane like a lot of people did, but everything with Kane/Ryder I did.
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JCBaggee
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Writer, streamer. I used to write for CBR but then they fired everyone who cared about their writers
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Post by JCBaggee on Jul 26, 2012 6:44:40 GMT -5
Eh, he's right though.
He fought hard to get the US Title, put on fairly solid matches, and it seemed like a big deal when he got it. Then he lost it, lost his rematch, and got owned by Kane and Eve, and didn't get revenge for months, only to go on to flounder back in the midcard.
You could argue he's still in a fairly decent spot. He shows up on TV now, and is basically a JTTS. But whatever chance he had to make it into the upper midcard or main event scene right now is completely stalled.
I've said it before though, it's an easy work around. He's too much of a comedy act as it is now, an over the top exaggeration that doesn't necessarily work as the "Jersey Shore" phase of our pop culture winds down. But if he could tone those down...not necessarily phase them down, but make them less extreme and loud...I could see him going pretty far. Not necessarily WWE Championship far, but a lengthy US or IC title reign wouldn't be outside of the realm of imagination.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 8:17:08 GMT -5
I think the real killer was those weeks he spent in a wheelchair looking like Eric from Mac & Me.
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Post by Hakumental on Jul 26, 2012 8:21:12 GMT -5
Not that I'm necessarily putting Ryder on the same "level", but remember when Edge and Christian were a heel tag team that was taken seriously, booked in solid matches, and actually had moderate-to-lengthy reigns as champions - and a pair of surfer beach rats who made up words, providing comic relief when required? Just something that Creative may want to recall.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2012 8:42:09 GMT -5
He's a comedy mid-carder, exactly how far should he have gotten with that? Why should a Jersey Shore goofball advance to the main event? He's perfectly fine where he is with what he is.
And I still maintain that what killed his momentum in the Kane/Eve storyline was his inability to hobble on crutches properly. He looked ridiculous.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 26, 2012 8:43:35 GMT -5
Ryder does suck a bit. I loved Zack Ryder ever since he first busted out the WWWYKI catchphrase on the Dirt Sheet. I didn't expect Ryder to be Chris Benoit in the ring or The Rock on the mic (even though they are similar in being walking catchphrase machines), so I wasn't one of those guys who chanted "We Want Ryder" only to be disappointed by his lack of skill. His ring skills are "meh" but passable. He isn't sloppy or botchy, and his character more than made up for his subpar mic skills/acting skills.
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