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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jul 26, 2012 20:24:52 GMT -5
I think this needs to be posted
THIS is what killed Zack Ryder's career
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 26, 2012 20:29:48 GMT -5
I think this needs to be posted THIS is what killed Zack Ryder's career Zack's acting was perfectly fine in that segment to me.
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Post by Red Impact on Jul 26, 2012 20:33:03 GMT -5
I can't believe people are trying to say it was his acting that hurt/killed him in the Kane and Eve storyline. Uh, I'm pretty sure he coulda been Marlon f***ing Brando and the fans still would have stopped cheering for him after that because in the storyline he was a pussywhipped Kane punching bag. Chris Jericho's entire WWE career has basically been him being made a bitch on Raw, but he's good enough to still be very over despite it, so yeah, I think Ryder's promo abilities hurt him. The angle didn't help Zack by any means, but Zack didn't help himself either. He's fine on his web show, but there's a difference between a taped vignette that you can write, shoot, reshoot with necessary, and edit together, versus live in front of a crowd. John Morrison is a perfect example of that, he was great on the Dirt Sheet, but much less when he moved to Smackdown. Sean O'Haire had great vignettes, but his gimmick got dropped because he couldn't do it live. He wasn't going to get much higher than he is now until he gets better in front of a live crowd. Cena wasn't great in that angle, but Cena's proven more than once that he can deliver solid promos. Zack Ryder just hasn't reached that point yet. He's been forgettable at best, or stuck out like a sore thumb among people much better than him at worst. That's not to say he's never going to reach that level. He's done a great job in getting a fanbase on his own despite the goofy gimmick and theme, but I don't think he's good really good enough to keep climbing up the card.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 26, 2012 20:39:17 GMT -5
I can't believe people are trying to say it was his acting that hurt/killed him in the Kane and Eve storyline. Uh, I'm pretty sure he coulda been Marlon f***ing Brando and the fans still would have stopped cheering for him after that because in the storyline he was a pussywhipped Kane punching bag. Chris Jericho's entire WWE career has basically been him being made a bitch on Raw, but he's good enough to still be very over despite it, so yeah, I think Ryder's promo abilities hurt him. The angle didn't help Zack by any means, but Zack didn't help himself either. He's fine on his web show, but there's a difference between a taped vignette that you can write, shoot, reshoot with necessary, and edit together, versus live in front of a crowd. John Morrison is a perfect example of that, he was great on the Dirt Sheet, but much less when he moved to Smackdown. Sean O'Haire had great promos, but the angle got dropped because he couldn't do it live. He wasn't going to get much higher than he is now until he gets better in front of a live crowd. Cena wasn't great in that angle, but Cena's proven more than once that he can deliver solid promos. Wrestling is supposed to be about highlighting strengths and covering weaknesses. If that were the case, then don't let him do in ring promos, just limit Ryder's talking to taped segments. They should've just let him do pre-taped segments on SmackDown. Keep him a jobber by all means, but don't take him off TV for extended periods of time or book him like an idiot. If they were going to send him back down to the C-Shows, they should've sent him to NXT Redemption, where he could brush up on his character and have actual storylines rather than Superstars, where he just flounders.
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Post by Red Impact on Jul 26, 2012 21:00:51 GMT -5
Chris Jericho's entire WWE career has basically been him being made a bitch on Raw, but he's good enough to still be very over despite it, so yeah, I think Ryder's promo abilities hurt him. The angle didn't help Zack by any means, but Zack didn't help himself either. He's fine on his web show, but there's a difference between a taped vignette that you can write, shoot, reshoot with necessary, and edit together, versus live in front of a crowd. John Morrison is a perfect example of that, he was great on the Dirt Sheet, but much less when he moved to Smackdown. Sean O'Haire had great promos, but the angle got dropped because he couldn't do it live. He wasn't going to get much higher than he is now until he gets better in front of a live crowd. Cena wasn't great in that angle, but Cena's proven more than once that he can deliver solid promos. Wrestling is supposed to be about highlighting strengths and covering weaknesses. If that were the case, then don't let him do in ring promos, just limit Ryder's talking to taped segments. They should've just let him do pre-taped segments on SmackDown. Keep him a jobber by all means, but don't take him off TV for extended periods of time. If they were going to send him back down to the C-Shows, they should've sent him to NXT Redemption, where he could brush up on his character and have actual storylines rather than Superstars, where he just flounders. If Ryder didn't get over by being charismatic and funny on his show, then sure. You can cover up deficiency in wrestling skill by having them adopt certain styles that don't require that much technical ability compared to someone like Jericho or Hart. But for a guy who got over only because of a web-show that he was good in? You expect him to be better when given a microphone. Wrestling is about being able to deliver in front of crowds of people. The fact that Ryder's ability to talk doesn't translate well, and the fact that that's why he got over in the first place, hurts him a lot more than a guy who never got over by talking.
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Post by Thunderbolt on Jul 27, 2012 7:04:44 GMT -5
My favorite part of Ryder's career is him getting launched by Kane off the stage. Just that whole evening and him getting owned by Kane over and over was tremendous. That Raw was seriously one of the most memorable for me in the past 10 years. Just tremendous. Ryder is blah in ring and his character isn't that entertaining on TV. He shouldn't be seen as a top guy and I loved watching Kane maul him.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Jul 27, 2012 7:14:45 GMT -5
I think this needs to be posted THIS is what killed Zack Ryder's career When Big Johnny looks like he's putting on an acting clinic next to you, you need to work on those promo skills. Strangely, the only one in that segment whose mic work has actually shown improvement is Eve.
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Post by pepsitwist on Jul 27, 2012 7:32:41 GMT -5
Zack screwed Zack
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repomark
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Post by repomark on Jul 27, 2012 7:48:53 GMT -5
It has been said a few times in the thread, but it would have made all the sense in the world to have had Kane v Zack at Mania 28 with Eve involved some how. This could have been the launching pad for him, and was a storyline people were genuinely interested in.
They could have even used the same ending as the 12 man tag, with Eve costing him the match. It still would have hurt him less, because then there is a follow on storyline/feud which never materialised from WM. It would also have given Kane something to do other than a pointless feud with Randy Orton.
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Post by audiencewatching on Jul 27, 2012 7:56:27 GMT -5
He continues to put out bad statements and he'll continue to job to ADR in one minute each week.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jul 27, 2012 8:12:21 GMT -5
My favorite part of Ryder's career is him getting launched by Kane off the stage. Just that whole evening and him getting owned by Kane over and over was tremendous. That Raw was seriously one of the most memorable for me in the past 10 years. Just tremendous. Ryder is blah in ring and his character isn't that entertaining on TV. He shouldn't be seen as a top guy and I loved watching Kane maul him. So did I, but I'd love watching Kane maul anyone.
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bob
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Post by bob on Jul 27, 2012 12:34:01 GMT -5
he's right
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jul 27, 2012 12:59:27 GMT -5
Speaking out like this when he still regularly gets on TV, be it matches, backstage or Smackdown GM, that is what will kill his career. Yeah. Can't really think of too many guys, jobbers or not, getting used and openly talking about what "killed my career" in interviews. Exactly. You dont hear Drew talking about how Tiffany killed his push nor Hunico moaning because he got the terrible twin thing
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Post by Kitty Shamrocks on Jul 27, 2012 15:27:49 GMT -5
Ryder's acting sucks, sure, but Eve's was just as bad (worse imo) and seems to have gotten a promotion since that angle.
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Post by Red Impact on Jul 27, 2012 17:57:43 GMT -5
Ryder's acting sucks, sure, but Eve's was just as bad (worse imo) and seems to have gotten a promotion since that angle. I don't know if I'd say it was worse, Ryder was absolutely awful during a lot of it. Besides that, Zack's not a Diva, so he can't really get by by looks like Divas can nowadays. It's a sad thing, but true.
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Post by usxxs on Jul 27, 2012 18:05:41 GMT -5
Zack Ryder is also a smaller man, that also limits your career to some extent.
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Post by Cela on Jul 27, 2012 18:06:20 GMT -5
It is slightly hilarious how they used someone the fans had grown attached to in order to get Cena more over.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 27, 2012 18:16:20 GMT -5
Zack Ryder is also a smaller man, that also limits your career to some extent. Zack Ryder has not only been beaten, but SQUASHED by guys smaller than himself, and his victories over the smaller Dolph Ziggler were treated as huge upsets, so I doubt his size is an issue.
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Cronant
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Post by Cronant on Jul 27, 2012 18:21:16 GMT -5
It is slightly hilarious how they used someone the fans had grown attached to in order to get Cena more over. Wasn't Cena helping him get over? I mean he was doing those little backstage segments early on when Zack's show was just starting.
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Post by Cela on Jul 27, 2012 19:09:54 GMT -5
It is slightly hilarious how they used someone the fans had grown attached to in order to get Cena more over. Wasn't Cena helping him get over? I mean he was doing those little backstage segments early on when Zack's show was just starting. Conceivably, but Ryder getting title shots was arguably more a Cena plotline.
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