Ryder "Kane and Eve thing killed my career"

[Deleted]

Meh it's not the gimmicks fault or the bookings fault. A big part of it is his fault. The angle exposed of how bad his line delivery is, facial expressions, cant do a promo beyond catchphrases, and can't act on anything unless it's a pretaped YouTube show with a script he wrote for himself. He's not a bad wrestler who can have some good matches but if he wants to evolve his offense has to look sharp and crisp. He throws the weakest looking punches and outside the woo woo boot, nothing looks like it hurts. Vince did say it best that a babyface needs look like an asskicker and back it up.

You can argue in Santinos case that his mic skills are superior and he makes a good babyface in his matches because he outsmarts his opponents in humiliating fashion and they have built his finisher to look bs deadly. Hell whenever he doesn't his opponents in the chest with it, a throat strike does look like it hurts.

There is no denying that Ryder is charismatic as hell and passionate on what je does but he really needs to see what he has to improve on than rather get caught up on his cult status fame. Like he has the same of tone of voice on all his promos something l forgot about to mention. Anyways Cena had a stupid vanilla ice gimmick but he made it awesome and shown his good mic skills and had a couple of good matches which lead to Vince pulling the trigger on him. Sheamus had a long ass losing streak as a heel but shown improvement and got the fans on his side to force him to turn from heel to babyface leading him to become Cena 2.0 Ziggler has been a jobber to the stars but won MITB because the E sees something good in him. WWE has a reputation of testing out wrestlers by putting them in stupid gimmicks, angles, or losing streaks. Ryder just bombed. Simple.

[Society of the Spectacle]

SPOILER: Click to show

{Spoiler}

"Eve and Kane didn't kill Zack Ryder's career. Zack Ryder killed Zack Ryder's career."

All joking aside, even though I've admired Zack's ability to get over with the crowd, I don't really think he's focused enough on how he can work with other characters, or in other words, get his character over in a feud. As someone else said, he felt out of place on that one RAW where he, Bryan, and Punk started the show.

He's been pushing (on ZTLIS) for a match with Ziggler at Mania 29, which makes sense since it will be a hometown show for him. However, why not try to get a program started with someone else right now so he can build enough momentum so Vince and Hunter will have no other choice but to stick him on the card?

Also, and maybe it's a small thing, but I never felt like his moveset over the years really fit his "Broski" gimmick. I mean, I remember when he was on ECW, he was using the Tiger Bomb as a finisher. Don't get me wrong, great move, and was a good callback to wrestling history, but is a Jersey Broski off the pier really supposed to be someone who knows how to do that move? He's obviously using the Zack Attack now, but I think that something like using the Tiger Bomb as his initial finisher was maybe symbolic of how Ryder is at times too much a fan than he is a wrestler. Guys like Punk, Bryan, or even Cena are big fans of the business, but you can also tell that they want to be wrestlers in their own right by how they carry themselves.

[Red Impact]

His career was halted by the fact that he has the delivery of a 4th grader in a school play. The big appeal of the guy was that his web show had a following and he never got a chance, but he wasn't ready when they did give him a chance. There have been comedy characters who have sounded far more natural giving promos than Ryder, there have been people with promos composed largely of catchphrases that did it a lot better, and while he's not bad in the ring, he's not exciting enough to make up for the fact that he's just not there yet.

[Brainbustaaah!]

Jul 26, 2012 8:52:06 GMT -5 Society of the Spectacle said:

Also, and maybe it's a small thing, but I never felt like his moveset over the years really fit his "Broski" gimmick. I mean, I remember when he was on ECW, he was using the Tiger Bomb as a finisher. Don't get me wrong, great move, and was a good callback to wrestling history, but is a Jersey Broski off the pier really supposed to be someone who knows how to do that move? He's obviously using the Zack Attack now, but I think that something like using the Tiger Bomb as his initial finisher was maybe symbolic of how Ryder is at times too much a fan than he is a wrestler. Guys like Punk, Bryan, or even Cena are big fans of the business, but you can also tell that they want to be wrestlers in their own right by how they carry themselves.

It never bothered me. Even in kayfabe, he's still a former Edgehead, which means he followed around someone who unquestionably would know a smorgasbord of moves (even if it didn't always seem so.) He wasn't fresh off the pier, he just acted like it. And, minor note, the Tiger Bomb was a signature, not a finisher. I don't remember him getting the pin with it ever.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Jul 26, 2012 9:22:52 GMT -5 Brainbustaaah! said:

Jul 26, 2012 8:52:06 GMT -5 Society of the Spectacle said:

Also, and maybe it's a small thing, but I never felt like his moveset over the years really fit his "Broski" gimmick. I mean, I remember when he was on ECW, he was using the Tiger Bomb as a finisher. Don't get me wrong, great move, and was a good callback to wrestling history, but is a Jersey Broski off the pier really supposed to be someone who knows how to do that move? He's obviously using the Zack Attack now, but I think that something like using the Tiger Bomb as his initial finisher was maybe symbolic of how Ryder is at times too much a fan than he is a wrestler. Guys like Punk, Bryan, or even Cena are big fans of the business, but you can also tell that they want to be wrestlers in their own right by how they carry themselves.

It never bothered me. Even in kayfabe, he's still a former Edgehead, which means he followed around someone who unquestionably would know a smorgasbord of moves (even if it didn't always seem so.) He wasn't fresh off the pier, he just acted like it. And, minor note, the Tiger Bomb was a signature, not a finisher. I don't remember him getting the pin with it ever.

Hell, I only ever actually saw him do it once, period. Nice move admittedly, but he hasn't done it since that ECW Championship match against Christian.

Back on topic... Ryder as an overall talent is probably no more than solid. He does have a dorky charisma that gets people behind him, and can have great matches with the right opponent. Unfortunately, he flounders on the mic without his own material and sticks to the catch-phrases, and isn't so skilled in the ring that he can carry lesser workers.

What gets forgotten about the Kane thing is that he had INSANE crowd sympathy by the end of it, so much so that they basically threw Eve to the wolves to save Cena's skin. But they never capitalised on it. I read somewhere the other day that Ryder said he actually legitimately injured his back from the wheelchair off the stage bump he took, so I wonder if that skewered any possible plans they might have had for him at WrestleMania in terms of a one-on-one match against Kane (although that would have left Orton in the wilderness and that wasn't going to happen).

Either way, Ryder would be fine if the midcard as a whole was treated better.

[Allie Kitsune]

Didn't Ryder also leave for a few weeks after Kane gave him the "biggest push of his career" to film a minor role for a movie or a TV show or something?

[odor31]

He needs to defend the Internet title on TV or Superstars...

[The Ichi]

Jul 26, 2012 5:54:35 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

The "WE WANT RYDER" thing was indeed huge late last year...but then when people got Ryder, he just wasn't that impressive.

He's the wrestling equivalent of Snakes on a Plane.

I like Ryder but this is a pretty damn good analogy.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Him totally sucking on the mic outside of delivering his catchphrases in any sorta live setting did more harm to him that that shitty storyline.

[Brother Nero....Wolfe]

You know I see people saying that people got tired of Ryder and didn't like him once he wrestled and all, but uh the crowd still chants LET'S GO RYDER every time he wrestles and all that. I personally still want him to have a bigger role because I'm a big Ryder mark and he's my favorite current wrestler.

...But he probably won't because he's an idiot who says stuff like that in interviews.

[Kevin Hamilton]

I think the chants may be a little overblown, in that some people genuinely probably really are big fans, and then some people may just really like to chant at a show cuz it's fun.

[The Portable Stove]

I just thought up the perfect comparison to this entire storyline. It's like JWOWW doing Macbeth. Ryder shouldn't have to be expected to do a dramatic storyline well. He should be their go to guy to get the crowd hyped up and get them to chant stupid things. Instead, they put him in a soap opera story that SHOULD have made some character progression for John Cena, and wound up regressing Ryder's and progressing Eve's instead.

Santino was in a dramatic storyline too, at the beginning of his career. That tanked. So now they have him handing out dolls and dressing up like Holmes backstage and wearing a sock on his hand. He's sure as hell over now. That's the kind of thing Ryder should be doing; playing to the crowd and trying to make them laugh, not playing a foil to a storyline with an awful payoff.

[Brother Nero....Wolfe]

Jul 26, 2012 10:23:12 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

I think the chants may be a little overblown, in that some people genuinely probably really are big fans, and then some people may just really like to chant at a show cuz it's fun.

I agree, but I think every chant is like that to a degree.

[Allie Kitsune]

Jul 26, 2012 5:54:35 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

The "WE WANT RYDER" thing was indeed huge late last year...but then when people got Ryder, he just wasn't that impressive.

He's the wrestling equivalent of Snakes on a Plane.

I'm still waiting for WWE to do a "Snakes on a Plane" reference involving Austin, Jake Roberts, Orton, and Santino.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Jul 26, 2012 10:25:34 GMT -5 Brother Nero....Wolfe said:

Jul 26, 2012 10:23:12 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

I think the chants may be a little overblown, in that some people genuinely probably really are big fans, and then some people may just really like to chant at a show cuz it's fun.

I agree, but I think every chant is like that to a degree.

Oh totally. NO argument there.

[Hit Girl]

He's right.

[Legion]

He's right in as far as it ended his big push on TV, but he's wrong if he thinks it killed his career.

Speaking out like this when he still regularly gets on TV, be it matches, backstage or Smackdown GM, that is what will kill his career.

[thelonewolf527]

Jul 26, 2012 10:25:29 GMT -5 The Portable Stove said:

I just thought up the perfect comparison to this entire storyline. It's like JWOWW doing Macbeth. Ryder shouldn't have to be expected to do a dramatic storyline well. He should be their go to guy to get the crowd hyped up and get them to chant stupid things. Instead, they put him in a soap opera story that SHOULD have made some character progression for John Cena, and wound up regressing Ryder's and progressing Eve's instead.

Santino was in a dramatic storyline too, at the beginning of his career. That tanked. So now they have him handing out dolls and dressing up like Holmes backstage and wearing a sock on his hand. He's sure as hell over now. That's the kind of thing Ryder should be doing; playing to the crowd and trying to make them laugh, not playing a foil to a storyline with an awful payoff.

It's true that he shouldn't be expected to do serious stuff, but it seems like A LOT of people wanted him to be more serious.

It just goes to show you that hard work does not equal deserved success. Hard work means you should get a chance, not get a push.

[Welfare Willis]

Jul 26, 2012 10:02:38 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Jul 26, 2012 5:54:35 GMT -5 Citizen Snips Has Left said:

The "WE WANT RYDER" thing was indeed huge late last year...but then when people got Ryder, he just wasn't that impressive.

He's the wrestling equivalent of Snakes on a Plane.

I like Ryder but this is a pretty damn good analogy.

B-B-But... That makes sense. No clearly this is Cena's fault.

Seriously though, what others here said is right. Zack's a comedy character who got a lucky break with the youtube show. He did get a pretty crappy storyline that made him look like a broken down cuckold. He never really got his revenge. They made him look like a joke.

Personally I think both sides are right. Zack got lucky and he got the shaft as well. This may be a perfect example of WWE's eltist ways: You're not successful unless we make you successful. The audience matters until we decide their opinion doesn't matter. We'll do things on our schedule and not on yours.

[Cronant]

Jul 26, 2012 10:49:48 GMT -5 Legion said:

Speaking out like this when he still regularly gets on TV, be it matches, backstage or Smackdown GM, that is what will kill his career.

Yeah.

Can't really think of too many guys, jobbers or not, getting used and openly talking about what "killed my career" in interviews.