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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 16, 2012 10:45:48 GMT -5
but they did. if you made bad choices leading up to the end, you'd have too small an army so certain options wouldn't be available and you could even fail if your army was too small. I mean, really, when you get up to the Citadel, does it matter for that part of the game that (for example) you got the Quarians their home back instead of helping the Geth? are your armies of Krogans and Turians supposed to follow you up there and somehow change the ending? people using the "my choices don't matter" seem to ignore that the way the story is written, their choices already matter, they just dont help with that part of the story. it's down to Sheppard and Sheppard alone at that point. and I like that it's down to your own decisions after that point, and that, say, getting Aria T'Loak's mercenary army won't be a magic "happy ending" button. all your other choices helped in getting you there. curing the Genophage and helping the Quarians get back home were major subplots that were already resolved at that point. I, for example, wanted to help the Quarians and at the end of that plotline I felt that the result of that was reward enough. I just like knowing that the ending I got doesn't mean everyone's stuck on earth after all.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 16, 2012 10:47:11 GMT -5
I don't think Bioware did themselves any favors by going all Peter Molyneux with hyping the endings and the choices and then doing... that. I think if they just kept their lips shut about the ending, well, they still would've been pretty crappy endings. But they'd be a lot less disappointing because expectations wouldn't have been as ridiculously high.
Granted I think people really embellish the significance of choice in the series in general and how it effects the games' plots. Most of the choices in the series come down to flavor and character personality/interaction. Even the major choices in the series ultimately ended up being window dressing. As an example, the big choice at the end of ME1 made some random, insignificant NPC's angrier and changed a few codex entries in ME2. That's it.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 16, 2012 10:53:14 GMT -5
I don't think Bioware did themselves any favors by going all Peter Molyneux with hyping the endings and the choices and then doing... that. I think if they just kept their lips shut about the ending, well, they still would've been pretty crappy endings. But they'd be a lot less disappointing because expectations wouldn't have been as ridiculously high. that I will agree with, in some ways the game is a victim of its own hype. I can understand Bioware not wanting to spoil their actual endings at all, that's just good business sense, but they really shouldn't have told customers that the ending itself would be super-different depending on every single choice you made. the choices you make DO matter in getting to the end, but at the end of the day there are really only 4 endings (one of which yoou have to be an intentional idiot to get), they just didn't turn out the way Bioware advertised. was it because EA rushed them at the end? was it Mac and Casey not taking input from the rest of the writing team? who knows? but at the end of the day, they're still a business, they aren't going to come out and say "yeah we totally f***ed up in the last 5 minutes of the game we're idiots please pile on more abuse". EA is a big company worth a llot oof money, and they're going to spin it in a way that llimits the fallout to their stockholders, even if it does kinda feel like they're ingnoring their customers (which isn't necessarilly the case. if it was, we'd get no new ending at all). and honestly, the endings we did get were terrible, but not beyond fixing, and thats what we're getting from the sound of things. I never expected a super-complicated ending, just one that doesn't imply everyone in the galaxy is f***ed over because of writeing oversights.
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Post by KStrick on Apr 16, 2012 11:08:04 GMT -5
but the choices DID matter. the whole third game revolves around choices you made. the choices you make determines how big an army you get, and how the story leading up to the end goes. at the end every plot point's already been resolved. yes I do agree that it's kind of lame that the ending boils down to "pick A,B or C". but is that really so terrible? if they had made less vague endings that didn't make it look like you just screwed over the galaxy, which is apparently nor was it ever the actual case, I doubt the vitriol would have even been half as big. what exactly do people who hate the ending so much really want? do they REALLY want a "nope that didn't happen because MAGIC" retcon? because that's exactly what the "Indoctrination theory" is. seriously, I mean, I've been over this to the point where I don't even care anymore, and I just want to know what kind of ending the people freaking out about "choice" really want. were there things to fix about the ending? yeah. but really the only thing that really sucked about the ending was the "everyone is screwed" implication, which is apparently being addressed in the ending extensions. I mean, would you REALLY want to play a game where at the end you have an awesome showdown with one of the big bad guys (TIM) only for the game to pull a "nuh uh that didn't really happen lol" and put you back on earth? and they did address the difference between "The Arrival" and the end of ME3. they said that the big difference was that The Arrival was an intentional over-loading that caused a massive system-wide explosion, whereas what happened at the end of ME3 was different. do they need to explain HOW it's different? of course. but they have already said it's different circumstances and the types of explosion are functionally different. remember, the Mass Relay in The Arrival was blown up by Sheppard, but the Crucible is what activates all the Mass Relays in ME3. it's differnent tech, different kinds of explosion, and different purposes. Did your choices matter in the game? Yes. The first 90% of the game was brilliant (I still love watching the Wrex/Shepard stand off in the Citadel on YouTube... that was incredible!) Did the choices matter when it mattered most, the final battle on Earth? Hell no. The only thing that mattered was your EMS (which I have no problem with), but the only difference being a "low" score caused the destruction of the earth (if you picked destroy), and a "high" score would unlock Synthesis, which is STILL a terrible ending (and counterproductive to the entire THEME of the game). Hell, people finally found out that the only difference to the biggest decision in ME2 (giving TIM the Collector Base or NOT giving TIM the Collector Base) resulted in about 10 points of difference on your war assets, and NOTHING in game (you get 110 points for collecting the "brain" of the human-reaper hybrid if you gave TIM the base, you get 100 points for the heart of the human-reaper hybrid if you destroyed the base). Is an A, B, C ending terrible? YES! For LOTS of reasons. 1, they promised during development that this exact situation WOULDN'T occur. That was one of the biggest reasons the Better Business Bureau did an investigation, and claimed that BioWare DID lie about the endings. Further, if A ending were "the good ending", B was the "eh" ending, and "C" was the "bad" ending, that would be different. All three endings were 95% the same (colors, and a FEW bits of animation here and there). They were committed to keeping it this way until people basically revolted, and their "artistic integrity" statement was put through the thresher. I KNOW they were rushed to get this ending out (hell, a LOT of the game was obviously rushed), but they REALLY should have pushed harder to delay the release until they had something the entire team was proud of, not just "Mac, Casey, and Ray". When BioWare DOES respond honestly on the board, even THEY admit the ending was "much less than what we wanted, but we had no real say in the process". I abhor the Indoctrination ending simply because it's a non ending. However, I agree that the likelihood of this being something BioWare had established was probably about 10%. It's highly improbable, and quite frankly, I'd be MORE pissed if the Indoctrination Ending were true, if only because it still doesn't establish what happens. What do people want from the endings? To know HOW their decisions affected the galaxy. It's the end of a trilogy that spans over 150 hours. You do NOT leave "speculation for everyone" as the last memo. That's just HORRIBLE practice. Do some people want a "Disney/Star Wars" ending? Yes. I fail to see why that isn't an option. Do people want Shepard to sacrifice himself for the greater good? You bet your ass. Ultimately, people wanted to have closure with the Reapers. They built up "Dark matter", with a prevalent rumor (taken from the original writer of the game) having that the Reapers are actually doing what they're doing because of the Dark Energy destroying EVERYTHING in the universe, and all universes, and the Reapers, knowing this, collect the data from every species to combat this (in a dark justice sort of twist). That would have been... unfulfilling, but a stark contrast to what we got, and likely better received, because it STILL keeps the focus on the Reapers, and gives closure (in a sense) to WHY the Reapers are there, without destroying the ambiance or mystique. People WANTED a final confrontation with Harbinger. Even if Shepard goes down swinging, he would have still confronted Harbinger. People WANTED to know that their decisions mattered. They wanted to SEE, not be told, that the rachni, Krogan, Turians... all races joined you, and how your decisions to include them altered the course of the future. Hell, I would be willing to accept the Crucible (another thing they promised not to do in development) if there were more to it than just "push a button, take a space ladder to meet space sparkly god child" who tells me to take one of three choices without me questioning any of it. And don't kid yourself, this game HAS forever ruined the public approval of BioWare. I'm still looking for actual NUMBERS of downloads for the free DLC for multiplayer, but from what I've read online... they're not great. Basically, I don't know if I trust BioWare to give the fans a "good" conclusion to the game. There is so much work required just to make the ending make sense in ANY sense of the word that it will take MORE than a few months to wrap it up. A few video clips and snippets aren't going to give closure. Since you asked, here's what I wanted from the ending: 1.) A "Shepard Lives" ending; good, bad, or indifferent, where after the completion of the game, Shepard can visit other planets and discuss the implications with the races. 2.) A "good" ending, a "eh" ending, and a "bad" ending, where Shepard defeats the Reapers, and goes back to point 1 (ME1 had it right where after the completion of the game, you STILL got to make some decisions. I think a continuation where you get to either join the council and make decisions, or appoint someone to the council would be a brilliant start). Or, hell, if you just butcher every decision, the Reapers win, and the cycle continues. I don't care if it's not "appropriate" to have a "everything comes up sunshine and lollipops" ending, I would like to have the OPTION of having the majority live, settle down with your romantic partner, and ride off into the galaxy second star on the right, straight on until morning. An ending of how the Reapers win, and slowly go planet by planet, destroying everything in their path would also be acceptable. Just as long as the endings were built up, and conclude the story. Leave the speculation for the fans who wonder what "Shepard and Liara's child will look like", or "how the eff Miranda got pregnant". Not on the fate of the effing universe. That's just horrible writing and an inability for them to establish anything relating to a story. 3.) How, if you sacrifice Shepard, the sacrifice saved people. Did he die attempting to control the Reapers? If he succeeded in that, how did he control the Reapers? Did he take them millions of light years away? Did he use them to destroy other races that pissed him off (my Douche Shep would probably take out the Volus first...) 4.) A narrative that concludes a trilogy. Again, I'll say it time and time again, it's not up to the FANS to determine the ending, it's up to the writers, and the fans can speculate how the little things were changed. I don't have a problem discussing with friends about how my action of talking down the suicidal girl in ME1 may have changed HER life, but in the grand spectrum of things, that decision was only for Paragon/Renegade points, not for the overarching story. There's a lot more simple things that could have been done, but I've got class in a bit and I should be working on finishing my paper for it.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 16, 2012 11:12:43 GMT -5
I never played Dragon Age 2, but Mass Effect 3 has certainly made me take a "review it first" policy with Bioware now, rather than a "Here's My Bank Account" policy, as I do with Elder Scrolls/Fallout games. (Was going to say Bethesda, but that policy does not include WET and the like. Policy also does not extend to DLC)
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Post by KStrick on Apr 16, 2012 11:14:44 GMT -5
I never played Dragon Age 2, but Mass Effect 3 has certainly made me take a "review it first" policy with Bioware now, rather than a "Here's My Bank Account" policy, as I do with Elder Scrolls/Fallout games. (Was going to say Bethesda, but that policy does not include WET and the like) yeah, I was actually kind of CURIOUS about Wet, as it looked like a fun "pointless shoot-em-up" game that was heavily "geek-themed inspired". Glad I played the demo, it felt like everything I could do in the game was what I did in the demo... and the demo got old by the third enemy...
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 16, 2012 11:28:58 GMT -5
I never played Dragon Age 2, but Mass Effect 3 has certainly made me take a "review it first" policy with Bioware now, rather than a "Here's My Bank Account" policy, as I do with Elder Scrolls/Fallout games. (Was going to say Bethesda, but that policy does not include WET and the like) yeah, I was actually kind of CURIOUS about Wet, as it looked like a fun "pointless shoot-em-up" game that was heavily "geek-themed inspired". Glad I played the demo, it felt like everything I could do in the game was what I did in the demo... and the demo got old by the third enemy... I got it for free as part of some buy 2 get one free deal. You get REALLY sick of hearing "f***ING DOOR!"
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Post by KStrick on Apr 16, 2012 11:34:37 GMT -5
yeah, I was actually kind of CURIOUS about Wet, as it looked like a fun "pointless shoot-em-up" game that was heavily "geek-themed inspired". Glad I played the demo, it felt like everything I could do in the game was what I did in the demo... and the demo got old by the third enemy... I got it for free as part of some buy 2 get one free deal. You get REALLY sick of hearing "f***ING DOOR!" I tend to get sick of things pretty quick. Just ask anyone I played Left 4 Dead with, I wanted Louis dead if only because every time he was being attacked by anything, he would shriek "GET 'EM OFF MEH!" to the point of annoyance. Still love the game, though...
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Post by Cyno on Apr 16, 2012 11:37:59 GMT -5
I think my only "Shut up and take my money!" series is Rock Band and probably Warcraft. Even series I love like Assassin's Creed, Arkham, Castlevania, and Metroid have games that I either waited for or outright skipped on. Being unemployed also makes you a bit more discerning.
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BigJerichool222
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Apr 16, 2012 13:00:23 GMT -5
So with only 6 hours left of availablity, I managed to get enough credits for a Premium Spectre pack. Managed to get the ONE thing I wanted, a Krogan Battlemaster Vanguard. Oh and a Batarian Sentinel too, but that is literally my least favorite race and least favorite class combined.
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Post by KStrick on Apr 16, 2012 13:08:13 GMT -5
So with only 6 hours left of availablity, I managed to get enough credits for a Premium Spectre pack. Managed to get the ONE thing I wanted, a Krogan Battlemaster Vanguard. Oh and a Batarian Sentinel too, but that is literally my least favorite race and least favorite class combined. Surprised they added the Batarians... didn't know there was a demand for them. ...because knowing BioWare, they're GREAT at listening to the fans in this game, amirite?
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Post by Cyno on Apr 16, 2012 13:39:44 GMT -5
I actually know a few people who were really excited by the batarians being in.
I'm confused, too. I'll be over here playing the Krogan Battlemaster. I've been chomping at the bits to play as one since I saw Wrex and it's awesome they're in ME3's MP now.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Apr 16, 2012 13:57:26 GMT -5
Just out of interest, the multiplayer download, does it unlock the characters, or does it just give you the chance to get them in packs? It's free so I'm a little wary.
As for future games, I'll still get them all, Bioware still have a knack of making great characters I care about, I'll just wait till the price drops in future.
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BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
Posts: 17,424
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Apr 16, 2012 14:09:22 GMT -5
Just out of interest, the multiplayer download, does it unlock the characters, or does it just give you the chance to get them in packs? It's free so I'm a little wary. It unlocks the chance to get them in packs, though if you downloaded it this past weekend, you would have gotten a free pack this upcoming week with a guaranteed 1 new character.
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Post by KStrick on Apr 16, 2012 14:16:25 GMT -5
I know a guy who spent $50 on Specter packs just to unlock all the characters early.
He's a fool...
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BigJerichool222
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
Posts: 17,424
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Apr 16, 2012 14:27:38 GMT -5
I know a guy who spent $50 on Specter packs just to unlock all the characters early. He's a fool... I just got one third of the the new characters. For $0.00 I'm not a fool.
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Post by KStrick on Apr 16, 2012 15:07:41 GMT -5
I know a guy who spent $50 on Specter packs just to unlock all the characters early. He's a fool... I just got one third of the the new characters. For $0.00 I'm not a fool. I usually get about $15,000 credits per game, so by beating 4 in about an hour/80 minutes, you can buy the Spectre packs pretty quick. HOWEVER, I keep getting "rewarded" with crappy guns I don't care about. All of my characters pretty much just use the Carnifex and biotic/technical powers.
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BigJerichool222
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THE BIG DOG!
#NotInMySalad
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Post by BigJerichool222 on Apr 16, 2012 15:13:33 GMT -5
I would like to apologize to the entire Batarian race, as well as Sentinels everywhere.
Because HOLY S*** did I have a more fun time playing that than the Krogan Battlemaster.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Apr 16, 2012 16:06:45 GMT -5
Started playing this game last night, Im about 2 hours in and it's growing on me already. I bought it basically because MW3 had me breaking controllers with rage
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2012 16:15:32 GMT -5
I actually know a few people who were really excited by the batarians being in. I'm confused, too. I'll be over here playing the Krogan Battlemaster. I've been chomping at the bits to play as one since I saw Wrex and it's awesome they're in ME3's MP now. I was most looking forward to Batarian, just because I got tired of them forever being the bad guys. The Batarian Soldier is an absolute beast on Gold with the ballistic blades and Geth Shotgun.
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