saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Aug 15, 2012 14:24:16 GMT -5
It was never adjudged. I'm certainly not alleging that Benoit wasn't the perp or that WWE did it or whatever. But I'm betting a closer look might have revealed that the hacker knew someone who knew someone who heard the truth before it came out, or some version of the truth -- he doesn't have to be a WWE employee to hear second-hand information in Stamford. I knew the son of a lady who worked in the office of a very high-profile college football program as a secretary, and he told me lots of things before they became public. Maybe his best friend's mom was a secretary. Best I recall, he claimed to have been repeating info on the internet -- rumors from a wrestling site. Only he couldn't recall where he saw it and no one ever found such rumors posted BEFORE the bodies were found. I think there's more to this. I don't think the police wanted to complicate things. I think WWE had a lot to lose (and did lose a lot) and the fact that it was a call from WWE HQ that alerted authorities in Georgia to go check out the house to me raises some questions. Did you watch the interrogation videos in this thread? I saw the interrogation videos, but haven't looked at them recently. My reaction was that the police weren't terribly interested in finding out what they could. They called this a hindrance and probably considered it a nuisance. Here is what he posted online as explanation: "Hey everyone. I am here to talk about the wikipedia comment that was left by myself. I just want to say that it was an incredible coincidence. Last weekend, I had heard about Chris Benoit no showing Vengeance because of a family emergency, and I had heard rumors about why that was. I was reading rumors and speculation about this matter online, and one of them included that his wife may have passed away, and I did the wrong thing by posting it on wikipedia to spite there being no evidence." Yet they seized his computer and apparently never found anywhere he had been online where such a rumor of Benoit's wife being dead had been posted? I think the whole thing is curious. I think it's too big of a coincidence -- I think the guy probably heard something from someone who had heard it inside WWE. I think someone in WWE knew more than just Benoit's no-show excuse of his wife and kid were sick. Who calls the police to check on someone's house when they don't show up for work but do call to say there's an illness in the family? Happens everyday, and usually it doesn't involve police being called to check. My guess is that someone within WWE -- no idea who -- got a call (probably a rather incoherent call) from Benoit at some point saying his wife was dead. Whoever that might have been would obviously have told someone in WWE (else why would WWE call the police in another state) and that person probably told someone and it spread. So loserboy hears it, or a version of it, from someone and, being a person who likes to hack Wikipedia, posts it on Benoit's page. Does that make WWE culpable? Umm, no -- they did the right thing and called the police. Does that make Bozo the Loser Wiki Hacker an accomplice to murder? No. But his denial makes sense, as the police at the time said publicly that "if the person had knowledge of the death before police discovered the body, he or she could face criminal charges." So, yeah, he'd probably deny it.
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babyfootball
Don Corleone
At least as good as Ron Garvin!
Posts: 1,320
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Post by babyfootball on Aug 15, 2012 14:27:22 GMT -5
It was never adjudged. I'm certainly not alleging that Benoit wasn't the perp or that WWE did it or whatever. But I'm betting a closer look might have revealed that the hacker knew someone who knew someone who heard the truth before it came out, or some version of the truth -- he doesn't have to be a WWE employee to hear second-hand information in Stamford. I knew the son of a lady who worked in the office of a very high-profile college football program as a secretary, and he told me lots of things before they became public. Maybe his best friend's mom was a secretary. Best I recall, he claimed to have been repeating info on the internet -- rumors from a wrestling site. Only he couldn't recall where he saw it and no one ever found such rumors posted BEFORE the bodies were found. I think there's more to this. I don't think the police wanted to complicate things. I think WWE had a lot to lose (and did lose a lot) and the fact that it was a call from WWE HQ that alerted authorities in Georgia to go check out the house to me raises some questions. Did you watch the interrogation videos in this thread? I don't say this in a personal way to the quoted poster, this is a generalized observation: conspiracy theorists usually have no use for hard evidence, facts or testimony. I see it in all the ridiculous conspiracy theories that are out there. The most feasible theory I've seen posted is that the kid might be the friend (or a friend of a friend) of a child of a clerical WWE employee (secretary or somesuch) and decided to use his acquired information or "insider speculative educated guesswork" in order to do a little bit of amateur internet trolling. As for the murders themselves, I think this is one of those cases that is actually solved, makes sense albeit under a (still) bizarre set of circumstances. The only "what if" that really pops into my head is this: what if instead of ending it, Benoit decided to attend the PPV and won the ECW championship? And it was only after that when the bodies of his wife and son were discovered, or he flew home after the match and the timeline of events proceeded much like they actually did? Would Benoit apologists be able to stomach that match, knowing surely he and Punk would have a good to great match and he'd be doing this all as a murderer, though he'd be the only one who knew as the match was happening? That would've been 10 times worse than the way they ran the tribute to him and the news of the events unfolded to everyone else while the tribute was in progress, to the point that by the time it was over, many people felt sick over mourning and celebrating somebody who was in all likelihood a brutal double-murderer. But I don't know what good it does for us to have these Benoit threads every so often. I know I contributed by posting in the thread but I really kind of wish it would just stop coming up. What's done is done and it sucked real bad for everyone, and to recount the sequence of events is pretty depressing, as the whole thing is pretty horrifying. The only further discussion that is necessary is related to education regarding TBIs and the prevention of them, so hopefully the same doesn't happen to another family in the future.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 15, 2012 14:33:28 GMT -5
I believe Benoit missed some house shows leading up to the PPV, saying that his wife and son were vomiting blood and had food poisoning. If these hit news sites, could have been exaggerated.
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Post by molson5 on Aug 15, 2012 14:57:47 GMT -5
Did you watch the interrogation videos in this thread? I saw the interrogation videos, but haven't looked at them recently. My reaction was that the police weren't terribly interested in finding out what they could. They called this a hindrance and probably considered it a nuisance. Here is what he posted online as explanation: "Hey everyone. I am here to talk about the wikipedia comment that was left by myself. I just want to say that it was an incredible coincidence. Last weekend, I had heard about Chris Benoit no showing Vengeance because of a family emergency, and I had heard rumors about why that was. I was reading rumors and speculation about this matter online, and one of them included that his wife may have passed away, and I did the wrong thing by posting it on wikipedia to spite there being no evidence." Yet they seized his computer and apparently never found anywhere he had been online where such a rumor of Benoit's wife being dead had been posted? I think the whole thing is curious. I think it's too big of a coincidence -- I think the guy probably heard something from someone who had heard it inside WWE. I think someone in WWE knew more than just Benoit's no-show excuse of his wife and kid were sick. Who calls the police to check on someone's house when they don't show up for work but do call to say there's an illness in the family? Happens everyday, and usually it doesn't involve police being called to check. My guess is that someone within WWE -- no idea who -- got a call (probably a rather incoherent call) from Benoit at some point saying his wife was dead. Whoever that might have been would obviously have told someone in WWE (else why would WWE call the police in another state) and that person probably told someone and it spread. So loserboy hears it, or a version of it, from someone and, being a person who likes to hack Wikipedia, posts it on Benoit's page. Does that make WWE culpable? Umm, no -- they did the right thing and called the police. Does that make Bozo the Loser Wiki Hacker an accomplice to murder? No. But his denial makes sense, as the police at the time said publicly that "if the person had knowledge of the death before police discovered the body, he or she could face criminal charges." So, yeah, he'd probably deny it. Why would the WWE cover up the call from Benoit that his wife was dead? Or did they report THAT to the police, who have kept it secret for some reason, while at the same time releasing all of those texts and voicemails from Benoit. I just think when you add up all the motives/reasons/necessarily flow of pretty significant information to local tech nerds, the odds of it all happening just like that are even more far-fetched then the coincidence of the web edits in the first place.
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Post by AnActualBear on Aug 15, 2012 16:12:10 GMT -5
I think it's clear Kevin Sullivan somehow got in the house, killed Nancy, hid a whole day without anyone finding him or her body, killed Daniel and hid for another day without anyone noticing, killed Chris and managed to concoct an elaborate method for making it look like suicide, managed to perfectly forge Chris' handwriting for the suicide note, placed bibles on the bodies, got out of the house without leaving any evidence and didn't leave a single fingerprint anywhere in the house. Therefore I conclude Sullivan clearly did it. I know all this because I read it on the internet somewhere.
My point is, people want to believe there's more to tragic events than is actually true. Conspiracy theories really on coincidences, blatant lies and comically bad misinterpretation of the truth in almost all instances. Tupac is still alive because of the number 7! Elvis is still alive because...umm...he just is! Paul McCartney was dead the whole time, ignore the fact he's clearly still alive! The Ultimate Warrior died because his hair changed a bit and he looked a bit smaller! See my point? The whole wikipedia situation was just a horrible coincidence, he wasn't the son of Paul London who heard from Brian Kendrick that Gene Snitsky talked to Chavo Guerrero who had heard that Benoit was dead.
Don't believe in conspiracies people, do some research for yourself and make a logical conclusion. Occam's Razor and all that.
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Post by SenorCrest on Aug 15, 2012 16:30:16 GMT -5
someone here made the same claim here as a joke ( that benoit & family were dead.) in the thread for the ppv. so it was the iluminati that did it. I knew it! I knew this forum was linked to the illuminati.
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on Aug 15, 2012 16:49:51 GMT -5
I remember a few weeks before his death, somebody replaced his entire WWE career history with "I love ponies."
I did a screen cap of it because it was just so bizarre.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,989
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Post by chazraps on Aug 15, 2012 17:01:08 GMT -5
I think it's clear Kevin Sullivan somehow got in the house, killed Nancy, hid a whole day without anyone finding him or her body, killed Daniel and hid for another day without anyone noticing, killed Chris and managed to concoct an elaborate method for making it look like suicide, managed to perfectly forge Chris' handwriting for the suicide note, placed bibles on the bodies, got out of the house without leaving any evidence and didn't leave a single fingerprint anywhere in the house. Therefore I conclude Sullivan clearly did it. I know all this because I read it on the internet somewhere. My point is, people want to believe there's more to tragic events than is actually true. Conspiracy theories really on coincidences, blatant lies and comically bad misinterpretation of the truth in almost all instances. Tupac is still alive because of the number 7! Elvis is still alive because...umm...he just is! Paul McCartney was dead the whole time, ignore the fact he's clearly still alive! The Ultimate Warrior died because his hair changed a bit and he looked a bit smaller! See my point? The whole wikipedia situation was just a horrible coincidence, he wasn't the son of Paul London who heard from Brian Kendrick that Gene Snitsky talked to Chavo Guerrero who had heard that Benoit was dead. Don't believe in conspiracies people, do some research for yourself and make a logical conclusion. Occam's Razor and all that. Nononononononono! The official accepted conspiracy theorists' story is that Kevin Sullivan had his Satanic Mafia subdue Benoit's dogs and break into his house at a time he knew the entire family would be home. While there, they made Chris kill his wife at gunpoint, THEN they waited a day with him, and made him strangle his own son to death in his bed at gunpoint, then they made him send the texts at gunpoint, and THEN, waited another day to make Chris hang himself AT GUNPOINT to perfectly frame him and take away any and all credibility he once had! It's hidden in plain sight you guyz! Why would anyone believe the "police" or so-called "Experts" when I can watch a Youtube video from people who've REALLY studied the case! You know, the videos posted within a week of the murder, accusing the police of botching the investigation by closing the case after a month even though the full investigation lasted OVER A YEAR?! No way Chris is a murderer. Not with that workrate. /IdiotMode
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 15, 2012 17:58:26 GMT -5
Editing a wikipedia page isn't hacking. Hacking would entail breaking into a network, I believe. Calling him a hacker gives him too much credit.
I recall people hypothesizing that it was a double-murder suicide before it was actually revealed. People make those connections because cases like this, where parents and their kid are found dead, are often murder-suicides. The idea that people would guess that was happening isn't out there, even if none of the wrestling news reported that as a theory.
Or, as an alternate theory, if he was lying about seeing it on the internet, maybe the guy with a history of lying on wikipedia was so panicked that the police knocked on his door and took him in for questioning about a double (maybe triple at the time) murder that he came up with seeing it on the internet because he thought that'd get him in less trouble. Rather than "chronic liar has close ties to WWE that were never discovered and/or revealed," it'd be "chronic liar lies to try to get in less trouble." That makes just a tad more sense, doesn't it?
You're acting like Stamford is a small, college town. It's not. It's not New York or anything, sure, but a fair number of people live there and WWE isn't even a huge employer in it Wikipedia says they reported just over 500 employees, that'd be .4% of Stamford if they were all office employees). There are a lot of corporate offices there.
I haven't heard anything of WWE calling any police offices except the Sheriff's department where Benoit lived, which isn't suspicious at all. If he called WWE HQ to say that Nancy was dead, there'd be records of the call as well, and as far as I can find, he only texted some people he knew and traveled with, not office people. WWE called him, but not the other way around.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Aug 15, 2012 18:07:30 GMT -5
Not to sound glib, but for all of the uncertainty that surrounds that Benoit's mind and actions that weekend, two things are sure: 1. That guy never vandalized another Wiki page. 2. He'll never make another prediction as long as he lives. [19 year old guy looks around an empty room, hesitates a little, closes his eyes and brings his fingers to his head] "...I predict I'll be surrounded by naked cheerleaders!" [Looks around and gets disappointed.]
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Post by Widow's Peak on Aug 15, 2012 18:25:45 GMT -5
I remember the night of the PPV, someone called into Live Audio Wrestling and speculated that "someone must have died" in order for Benoit to no-show a PPV.
Keeping that in mind, its not outside the realm of possibility that someone just made up a wild speculation and had the misfortune to be right.
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Post by Joe Laracuente WAS WRONG on Aug 15, 2012 18:25:49 GMT -5
Perhaps Billy Jack's theory was right! VINCE WAS THE FATHER! HEPATITIS! BOMBSHELL TONIGHT!
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Post by KRUGkiller on Aug 15, 2012 20:00:48 GMT -5
somebody call alex jones !
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2012 20:44:14 GMT -5
Knew each other in WCW but, checking wiki, it sounds like it was Scott Armstrong. But, for some reason, I recall it being Helms. Not sure either way. It was Helms. In his recent shoot he talked about how he was one of the last guys to talk to Benoit that weekend, and they talked more frequently than usual, which he thought was strange at the time and wished he'd thought more of it. Thanks. I knew I heard that from somewhere.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Aug 15, 2012 20:49:45 GMT -5
someone here made the same claim here as a joke ( that benoit & family were dead.) in the thread for the ppv. so it was the iluminati that did it. That's really weird though. Why would someone make a joke like that in the first place? The fact that it was accurate just makes it even stranger. . I don't think it's the illuminati or anything, but I still think there's a lot of shit we don't know about that weekend. Hell, it could have been a very well covered hit over malaysian slaves for all anyone knows. It's like Schrödinger's cat. I don't really think the people that predicted it were involved, but it certainly is eerie. Math isn't my strong point; what are the odds that someone would make a joke about a whole family being dead and actually be right?
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Aug 15, 2012 20:53:48 GMT -5
I disagree that million-to-one coincidence of someone from the same town as WWE HQ correctly guessing AND posting it on Wikipedia is the simplest explanation. More simple would be he heard it from someone and posted it -- if he heard it, it wouldn't be coincidence or million to one.
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Post by molson5 on Aug 15, 2012 21:20:42 GMT -5
I disagree that million-to-one coincidence of someone from the same town as WWE HQ correctly guessing AND posting it on Wikipedia is the simplest explanation. More simple would be he heard it from someone and posted it -- if he heard it, it wouldn't be coincidence or million to one. What are the odds the WWE knew something that early, covered it up from the police for some reason, but then started gossiping about it around town? That's gotta be far bigger odds than a million-to-one. And what about the guy from Australia who made the same edit? What are the odds that someone from Sidney, Australia, as opposed to anywhere else on earth, knew this info and posted it? The odds of pretty much anything happening are millions-to-one. The odds that RAW had 4,124,000 viewers last week, on the same day Boise, ID had a high temperature of exactly 96 degrees, on the same day the Washington Nationals win by a score of 14-2, on the same day that the Dow Jones closed at exactly 13,219.41 are several billion to 1. But amazingly, it happened! It's almost impossible that those things will happen on the same day ever again, but they happened Monday! Imagine if the vandal lived in Edmonton, or Atlanta, or wherever the PPV was, or wherever the house show the night before was...or imagine if he happened to be a crazy person that had a gun or knife collection, or maybe he was a known domestic batterer, or maybe he knew a guy that knew a guy that knew Benoit, or imagine he was related to Nancy's best friend, or imagine if he was a former pro wrestler trained by Kevin Sullivan..we'd be having even more conspiracy speculation, based on no real evidence at all.
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Post by johnnybaseball, Mantaur Fan on Aug 15, 2012 21:24:15 GMT -5
When a really unlikely coincidence occurs, I always think about the infinite number of things that could have happened, but didn't, and suddenly, whatever coincidence occurred seems more likely than it did before.
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Post by molson5 on Aug 15, 2012 21:27:33 GMT -5
When a really unlikely coincidence occurs, I always think about the infinite number of things that could have happened, but didn't, and suddenly, whatever coincidence occurred seems more likely than it did before. Exactly. Amazing coincidences happen constantly. It's just when they attach to a newsworthy event that we attach fictional meaning to it, it's human nature to find meaning in anything. That's the basis of conspiracy theories.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Aug 15, 2012 21:40:12 GMT -5
Interesting from the interrogation: he lived "practically next door" to WWE -- I think that was the phrase used. So I think it's entirely possible that a guy who lives next door or down the block or around the corner or whatever from WWE, who happens to be a wrestilng fan, might actually, you know, have become friends or acquaintances with someone who works there.
The post about WWE "gossiping about it around town" -- I hear about things happening around my town all the time. Some of it, probably, is true. I live in a town of more than 100,000 and a few years ago at night I had a car wreck. When I went to work the next day, it seemed as if everyone knew.
I still can't think of a good reason why WWE would call the police in Georgia to check Benoit's house unless someone at WWE had a reason to believe something was pretty terribly wrong -- I'm sure lots of WWE employees have missed work due to illness in the family, and informed their employer that they weren't going to be able to make it. I'd be pretty surprised to find out that it's company policy to call the police in such a case -- which means, again, someone was worried about something more than a bad case of food poisoning or the flu.
The fact that WWE called the police -- not a neighbor or parent of a school mate of the poor child victim -- tells me someone in WWE knew or had a pretty good hunch about something. Is it unreasonable that such a person might run it by a few co-workers to get their advice on what to do? Or that they might mention it to their husband or wife, who might then mention it to someone else who knows this Wiki Loser Boy?
I just don't find that to be a longshot.
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