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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Jul 12, 2012 23:42:09 GMT -5
Hey, I struggle to see how someone can think making horrible jokes about rape is okay (in this thread) and sexual abuse (in the other thread), so I guess we're on the same page here in our incredulity. you could start with the incredibly easy realization (or so I would have thought, anyway) that one is an actual situation, with an actual sex offender. Daniel Tosh might be a crappy comedian, but I'm fairly certain he's not a rapist. But that's just so far! Maybe he will be some day, and then all this pointless indignation about a dumb joke will totally be worthwhile. Yes, a joke about a real social problem. I never said that Tosh is a rapist, but instead acknowledged that rape is real, just like the sexual abuse which is the topic of the other thread, and Tosh is making light of it. So, are people being picky and choosy with what to take issue with? Which is exactly my point. Joking about an actual situation like Sandusky/Paterno=not okay. No doubt, we're in agreement here. And, to be intellectually consistent, joking about rape, which is a real thing in the real world=ALSO not okay. At some point people have to take responsibility for their own actions and not blame people for pushing them too far. Like making rape jokes at the expense of a female audience member which, given the real threat women face regarding rape, might be considered incitement. Yelling "fire!" in a crowded theatre is against the law, but suggesting a scenario whereby a woman is raped just because she disagrees with you apparently is 'comedy'. (and no, I don't think that Tosh should be ARRESTED for what he said, but to spin this into a situation where HE is the victim? backwards) Like making jokes about a real issue without knowing that maybe someone in the audience is a victim of said issue and doesn't enjoy having his/her personal traumatic experience turned into a punchline.
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Post by kayfabulous on Jul 12, 2012 23:45:17 GMT -5
I really debated whether or not to enter into this but I will say that societal acceptance of rape humor perpetuates rape culture, which allows the idea of it to be normalized and not taken as something serious. I think one day rape humor will be regarded in the way that overtly racist humor would be. I seriously doubt that just because a guy hears rape jokes, it's going to cause him to rape someone. Rapist already have the desire, idea, and willingness in their mind. They aren't going to rape somebody because they think "Hey, rape is funny and acceptable now because people tell rape jokes....I'm totally going to start raping people now!" Rape culture goes beyond just the rapists but society's reaction to it. It is one of the type of crimes where blame seems to be shifted to the victim. "What were you wearing? What were you drinking? Why would you walk home alone?" In some cases even the institutions that are meant to investigate it are dismissive, such as attributing it to just being something that happens, particularly around college campuses. An example would be accusations against a college saying that they did not aggressively investigate sexual assault cases: 80 rape reports in 3 yearsRape culture is not exclusive to the rapists and victims.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 12, 2012 23:52:15 GMT -5
Before I go to bed, I need to say one more thing. I'm not personally offended by the guy and not a lot offends me. However, I'm not likely going to be raped. And I think a lot of guys aren't looking at things from her perspective and why it was a real problem with her. They just see her as a heckler who broke the comedy code.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jul 12, 2012 23:54:26 GMT -5
Before I go to bed, I need to say one more thing. I'm not personally offended by the guy and not a lot offends me. However, I'm not likely going to be raped. And I think a lot of guys aren't looking at things from her perspective and why it was a real problem with her. They just see her as a heckler who broke the comedy code. Because, in that situation, that was exactly what she was. She tried to make a comedy show that wasn't REMOTELY about her, about her. Tosh shut her down in the quickest, most effective way there was that fit his gimmick, which IS a snarky douchebag. The fact that this is a story is ridiculous, and I'm very happy to see that the majority here are keeping a cool head instead of pretending this is the prelude to the death of western society.
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Toxik916
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Post by Toxik916 on Jul 12, 2012 23:56:43 GMT -5
The issue is this woman is trying to portray herself as the victim. Please read her initial blog post then go back a few pages and watch the Jim Norton video defending Tosh then you might understand why this chick was out of line. Please explain the jist of the 27 minute video, I like to get stuff precise and not have to listen to 27 minutes of stuff like that. I guess like, I'm trying to convey that people have an almost visceral reaction (I'm taking her words there) to that, and there seems to be no sympathy to that. Yeah, women fear getting raped, but f*** that, she interrupted a comedy show, f*** her and her visceral reactions. Again, maybe it wasn't appropriate, but when someone has a reaction like that (and again, 1 and 4 chance of a woman getting raped), it's hard for me to vilify that person. Oh, she's looking for attention, she wants to be part of the show, she wants to play the victim. I feel that this is bulls***. I'm sorry you may not understand that with the fact that you don't have a vagina and you probably won't' get raped in your lifetime, and don't have the fear of getting raped in your life, but yeah, maybe it wasn't appropriate, let's say people should never do it, and that's rule number 1 of every comedy show and shall never be broken. Still, if she had that much of a reaction, and if I was her, knowing about how rape is accepted a lot of the times and people victim blame, maybe I would have responded like that too. We all have things we feel strongly about, whether it's a political issue, religious issue, whatever. But, is someone going to rape you? Is there a 1 and 4 chance that you'll have to deal with it in your life? And that's the main issue for me, people are bitching at her, how dare she break the comedy code, or whatever the f***. This isn't a political issue, this is a deeply personal issue in which, she could likely be a victim of rape in her lifetime. Honestly if you won't even watch the video then you don't really care to hear the other side of the argument. Your mind is already made up. The video can do a helluva lot better job explaining the situation than I can.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 0:07:29 GMT -5
Before I go to bed, I need to say one more thing. I'm not personally offended by the guy and not a lot offends me. However, I'm not likely going to be raped. And I think a lot of guys aren't looking at things from her perspective and why it was a real problem with her. They just see her as a heckler who broke the comedy code. It's just not the place, nor the audience. By the way you defend her you make it sound like as long as you're passionate about anything you should be allowed to interrupt a stand up show to open up discourse. If I had my heart broken by a chick because she cheated on me and I hang on to that my entire life, and someone tells a joke about being unfaithful, does that give me free reign to stand up and tell him his jokes aren't funny? I understand that in the broad spectrum that rape is a far more serious concern, but your argument sounds like it's okay that I disrupt because I'm passionate about it. I'm tired so I might be guilty of rambling here but seriously. You're serious about rape? Donate to RAINN, contribute. Don't impose yourself on people who aren't the problem. They came there to hear jokes and laugh and I can only imagine since there's no video, just given the nature of the world today if Daniel Tosh was going "Michael Richards" there would be video evidence to support it. I can only imagine this woman was one of few unfamiliar with Tosh's schtick and the majority of people were laughing with Tosh. She's imposing herself on a paying audience who understands that rape isn't funny, but jokes can be funny. I don't know how to convince you that I know rape is a terrible thing other than to hope that you can give me the benefit of the doubt that I, as well as other people defending Daniel Tosh are decent human beings who just believe in comedians being unfiltered. But believe me, and I'm going out on a limb saying this. We don't like rape.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jul 13, 2012 0:10:32 GMT -5
Like making rape jokes at the expense of a female audience member which, given the real threat women face regarding rape, might be considered incitement. Yelling "fire!" in a crowded theatre is against the law, but suggesting a scenario whereby a woman is raped just because she disagrees with you apparently is 'comedy'. (and no, I don't think that Tosh should be ARRESTED for what he said, but to spin this into a situation where HE is the victim? backwards) It's a show, an act. NOTHING THERE IS REAL. At some point you as a person has to realize that. There is nothing similar in those two cases. She became a part of the show the second she decided to make herself a part of it and interrupt it. Again, no different than hopping the rail at a wrestling show. Once you cross that line you are fair game for the performer to use in a manner appropriate. You may not like what he did but he was the one targeted. She could have simply left and raised hell at management but she went after Tosh verbally so he responded in kind. At some point, she needs to realize that the world doesn't revolve around her. People have different past and different experiences and Tosh has hundreds if not thousands at his show, should he have to learn about the past of each and every person there or should the people there know what they are getting into before hand?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 0:55:16 GMT -5
Do people really believe that those who laugh at rape jokes don't take real rape seriously?
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theryno665
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Post by theryno665 on Jul 13, 2012 6:54:27 GMT -5
Do people really believe that those who laugh at rape jokes don't take real rape seriously? Yes. There was a similar situation in comedy that happened a little while ago that wasn't blown up as big as it was with Tosh. One of the biggest articles regarding the matter was from a woman that explicitly stated "If you laugh at a rape joke, you're just as bad as a rapist, if not worse because you're allowing it to happen." So apparently there are worse things than rape out there. And it's comedy.
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Jul 13, 2012 7:45:25 GMT -5
I honestly can't wait for the next episode of Tosh.0. Should be quite interesting and will certainly have a slight bump in the ratings.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 13, 2012 8:19:59 GMT -5
Please explain the jist of the 27 minute video, I like to get stuff precise and not have to listen to 27 minutes of stuff like that. I guess like, I'm trying to convey that people have an almost visceral reaction (I'm taking her words there) to that, and there seems to be no sympathy to that. Yeah, women fear getting raped, but f*** that, she interrupted a comedy show, f*** her and her visceral reactions. Again, maybe it wasn't appropriate, but when someone has a reaction like that (and again, 1 and 4 chance of a woman getting raped), it's hard for me to vilify that person. Oh, she's looking for attention, she wants to be part of the show, she wants to play the victim. I feel that this is bulls***. I'm sorry you may not understand that with the fact that you don't have a vagina and you probably won't' get raped in your lifetime, and don't have the fear of getting raped in your life, but yeah, maybe it wasn't appropriate, let's say people should never do it, and that's rule number 1 of every comedy show and shall never be broken. Still, if she had that much of a reaction, and if I was her, knowing about how rape is accepted a lot of the times and people victim blame, maybe I would have responded like that too. We all have things we feel strongly about, whether it's a political issue, religious issue, whatever. But, is someone going to rape you? Is there a 1 and 4 chance that you'll have to deal with it in your life? And that's the main issue for me, people are bitching at her, how dare she break the comedy code, or whatever the f***. This isn't a political issue, this is a deeply personal issue in which, she could likely be a victim of rape in her lifetime. Honestly if you won't even watch the video then you don't really care to hear the other side of the argument. Your mind is already made up. The video can do a helluva lot better job explaining the situation than I can. Then at least explain the jist. That's one of my personal pet peeves when people post long ass videos and say, go there, instead of giving out the details. You want me to do the work instead of you. I've suggested videos, but I try to keep them short. Especially when I was ready to go to bed to get up for work the next morning. I don't have much time to myself after work to begin with, let alone have to take up a half an hour of my time. So forgive me for trying to have you actually make points and defend your position. I understand what she did, I know about heckling, I know about playing characters, it's not the fall of western civilization or something stupid like that. My main point is really, I understand where she's coming from and I'm attempting to look at it through her point of view. A lot of people are just vilifying her and thinking she's just an attention whore. I don't think she was outwardly seeking attention but had an extreme response to a topic that the majority in the thread don't understand due to well, lacking vaginas. Which again, it didn't offend me, but I don't have a vagina either. It's not just something she was passionate about, like an opinion. It really affects her, and it's the principle of rape not being taken seriously. It's under reported, victims are vilified, and it happens to 1 in 4 women. Again, maybe she was wrong, but that doesn't mean she was an attention seeker or all the things you all described her as. It follows her and other women around.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 8:53:59 GMT -5
Honestly if you won't even watch the video then you don't really care to hear the other side of the argument. Your mind is already made up. The video can do a helluva lot better job explaining the situation than I can. Then at least explain the jist. That's one of my personal pet peeves when people post long ass videos and say, go there, instead of giving out the details. You want me to do the work instead of you. I've suggested videos, but I try to keep them short. Especially when I was ready to go to bed to get up for work the next morning. I don't have much time to myself after work to begin with, let alone have to take up a half an hour of my time. So forgive me for trying to have you actually make points and defend your position. I understand what she did, I know about heckling, I know about playing characters, it's not the fall of western civilization or something stupid like that. My main point is really, I understand where she's coming from and I'm attempting to look at it through her point of view. A lot of people are just vilifying her and thinking she's just an attention whore. I don't think she was outwardly seeking attention but had an extreme response to a topic that the majority in the thread don't understand due to well, lacking vaginas. Which again, it didn't offend me, but I don't have a vagina either. It's not just something she was passionate about, like an opinion. It really affects her, and it's the principle of rape not being taken seriously. It's under reported, victims are vilified, and it happens to 1 in 4 women. Again, maybe she was wrong, but that doesn't mean she was an attention seeker or all the things you all described her as. It follows her and other women around. The jist of the video is that the lady doesn't grasp the very basic fact that a stand-up routine is a performance, just like a film or stage play. Anyone who thinks its okay to 'heckle' for ANY reason is akin to someone getting up during a play and shouting at the actors or demanding Al Pacino apologize for playing Tony Montana because he did drugs, killed people, etc. Anyone who shouts at an actor on stage is an attention-seeker. If not, they'd wait til after the show or just quietly leave. If you're passionate about rape - you know what you do? Donate to RAINN, volunteer at a hotline or something like that. That's what people do who actually care about rape and want it to be taken seriously. Heckling a comedian doesn't help rape get taken seriously - just the opposite in fact. She obviously just wanted some attention and was using her "opinions on rape" as a means to do so. Either that or she's just a fool who doesn't understand the difference between a fictional portrayal and reality.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 9:14:35 GMT -5
you could start with the incredibly easy realization (or so I would have thought, anyway) that one is an actual situation, with an actual sex offender. Daniel Tosh might be a crappy comedian, but I'm fairly certain he's not a rapist. But that's just so far! Maybe he will be some day, and then all this pointless indignation about a dumb joke will totally be worthwhile. Yes, a joke about a real social problem. I never said that Tosh is a rapist, but instead acknowledged that rape is real, just like the sexual abuse which is the topic of the other thread, and Tosh is making light of it. So, are people being picky and choosy with what to take issue with? Which is exactly my point. Joking about an actual situation like Sandusky/Paterno=not okay. No doubt, we're in agreement here. And, to be intellectually consistent, joking about rape, which is a real thing in the real world=ALSO not okay. Like making rape jokes at the expense of a female audience member which, given the real threat women face regarding rape, might be considered incitement. Yelling "fire!" in a crowded theatre is against the law, but suggesting a scenario whereby a woman is raped just because she disagrees with you apparently is 'comedy'. (and no, I don't think that Tosh should be ARRESTED for what he said, but to spin this into a situation where HE is the victim? backwards) Like making jokes about a real issue without knowing that maybe someone in the audience is a victim of said issue and doesn't enjoy having his/her personal traumatic experience turned into a punchline. All of your points would be valid if it weren't a comedy show, but since she was attending a comedic performance in which hundreds of other people paid to see a comedian perform and NO ONE paid to hear her opinions - being a victim of rape, abuse, or any other trauma doesn't give someone license to interrupt a performance (play, stand-up or otherwise). If she was feeling uncomfortable by the situation, the correct thing to do is get up and leave without making a scene.
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Post by Shy Guy on Jul 13, 2012 9:14:39 GMT -5
Again, this is a strong issue with people, especially if they have been raped, know people who were raped, or because they're a human female, have a 1 and 4 chance of BEING raped. ok, i've seen this a lot in your responses, and it's really starting to get annoying, so i'll just point it out and leave it. it's "1 IN 4". not "1 AND 4". i do not have 1 chance and 4 chance of being raped. i have 4 girlfriends, and 1 of us have a possibility of being raped (going by that statistic).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 9:32:17 GMT -5
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Post by jamofpearls on Jul 13, 2012 10:12:09 GMT -5
Actually (in my opinion) Daniel Tosh isn't funny.
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Jul 13, 2012 10:25:50 GMT -5
LANGUAGE LANGUAGE. Someone referenced Norton's defense of Daniel Tosh. He lays it down pretty well. Lil' Jimmy is such a good lil boy!
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jul 13, 2012 10:26:12 GMT -5
So, gotta say, what Dane Cook said is MILES worse then what Tosh said. At least Tosh did it during his act.
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salz4life
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Post by salz4life on Jul 13, 2012 10:48:33 GMT -5
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Post by Porky's Butthole on Jul 13, 2012 11:01:44 GMT -5
Before I say what I'm going to say, I ask that you please read the spoiler AFTER you've read what I've said. {Spoiler}I'm going to do a social experiment. I'm going to make a rape joke and watch what happens. If Tosh was serious about wanting her to be raped, he would have said 'Wouldn't it be funny if she enrolled at Penn State?!
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