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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 11:10:01 GMT -5
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 13, 2012 11:35:24 GMT -5
Again, this is a strong issue with people, especially if they have been raped, know people who were raped, or because they're a human female, have a 1 and 4 chance of BEING raped. ok, i've seen this a lot in your responses, and it's really starting to get annoying, so i'll just point it out and leave it. it's "1 IN 4". not "1 AND 4". i do not have 1 chance and 4 chance of being raped. i have 4 girlfriends, and 1 of us have a possibility of being raped (going by that statistic). Forgive my typo, I meant 1 in 4. I'll also look up the stats, but it's important again to note that rape is under reported. And again, I do appreicate someone explaining the jist of that in a few sentences, that other post getting after me for not watching a 27 minute video was absurd. Ok, so it was an act. She marked out, if you will, so I was finally explained the situation. Again, maybe she didn't realize that and again, marked out and took what he said completely seriously. That doesn't mean she's looking for attention. She still had that visceral response. Rape jokes were brought up with the whole Spoony thing and are being brought up a lot more because of the seriousness of the issue and how, as I've said before, can be ignored and the person could be ridiculed. Forgiveness, please. It's not 1 in 4. That was from a flawed study in the 80s. Here's one from 2010: www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2011/p1214_sexual_violence.htmlSo it's actually like, 1 in 5. Though I'm on my phone and don't want to quote stuff from 2004 or anything and want to be as honest as possible.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 11:49:53 GMT -5
ok, i've seen this a lot in your responses, and it's really starting to get annoying, so i'll just point it out and leave it. it's "1 IN 4". not "1 AND 4". i do not have 1 chance and 4 chance of being raped. i have 4 girlfriends, and 1 of us have a possibility of being raped (going by that statistic). Forgive my typo, I meant 1 in 4. I'll also look up the stats, but it's important again to note that rape is under reported. And again, I do appreicate someone explaining the jist of that in a few sentences, that other post getting after me for not watching a 27 minute video was absurd. Ok, so it was an act. She marked out, if you will, so I was finally explained the situation. Again, maybe she didn't realize that and again, marked out and took what he said completely seriously. That doesn't mean she's looking for attention. She still had that visceral response. Rape jokes were brought up with the whole Spoony thing and are being brought up a lot more because of the seriousness of the issue and how, as I've said before, can be ignored and the person could be ridiculed. I mean, yeah - either she was looking for attention or just wasn't smart enough to realize that a stand-up routine is performance 'art.' In either case she's pretty much in the wrong. I understand having a visceral reaction to a sensitive subject, but people need to have self-control when in public, especially in a performance setting like that where there are hundreds of other people who paid money to watch the performer act, not an audience member get outraged because they don't know the difference between fantasy and reality.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jul 13, 2012 13:12:52 GMT -5
Just think if it was Bill Cosby making rape jokes. "These kids today with the rap music and the rapping that goes with the raping and the girls with their skimpy outfits and the fellas with their pants hanging down to their ankles and the booties and the angry bananas and the go to the clubs with the zippity-bippitity-boppety-boopety BLASAAAAAAAAMMMM!!!! And then the girl gets the skippety-scappity-skadoodilies and the genital warts and the guy never calls her back and then he goes to the prison where he gets the cornholin, and the butt blastin, and the pee-pee cacachoooooooooo!!!!!!" okay, THIS, my friends, is how you do a rape joke that's actually funny.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jul 13, 2012 13:15:25 GMT -5
It's tough. One thing about discussing rape jokes and being against them in society it seems has to do with politics. The people who brought it up on my Facebook are both pretty hardcore feminists. And I feel on this forum, feminism is really misunderstood but I digress. With a ban on politics, it's really difficult to get to the meat of the matter, so I'll try to bring this up in a way that's vague and not very political. But here we go. Firstly, I think a problem has to do with rape not being taken seriously. People can talk about the horror of it, but when somebody gets murdered, it's not often people say of the innocent person "they had it coming" or "if they didn't act a certain way, this wouldn't have happened" or whatever. With rape however, these are reasons given, because the girl dressed like a "slut", because she was easy, because she was leading the guy on, she was drunk, she was partying, all that good stuff. Slut shaming is another issue, as if I were to bring up porn stars and prostitutes being raped, there maybe some ignorant people that would be like, well, that's the business they work in, or another she had it coming. Rape is something that is incredibly under reported, and there has been throughout history a lot of shame put on the rape victim. Now, to the bit where I walk the line of getting a warning, but it seems that, at least in one particularly well known country, there seems to be laws coming out attempting to control women, and put more control over them. That's the only thing I'll say about that, and people can let their imaginations run wild. Basically, women are these things to control and a lot of rape simply involves control. Women at times are harassed for pretty much existing. As someone who works in the construction industry, I know this for a fact, I've seen it and heard about it. And that's just the construction industry, I'm sure many other women have had to deal with it in other walks of life. So yeah, it's hard to say that certain jokes are off limits, but I think people need to understand where the other side is coming from and why rape jokes are incredibly beyond offensive instead of being like, oh come on, that's just how that comedian is or she should have known better or whatever the f***. to say nothing of when it happens to men. seriously, I was molested as a kid and when I opened up about it in high school all I got from some people was "lol u got raped by a man ur gay".
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 13, 2012 14:56:36 GMT -5
I really debated whether or not to enter into this but I will say that societal acceptance of rape humor perpetuates rape culture, which allows the idea of it to be normalized and not taken as something serious. I think one day rape humor will be regarded in the way that overtly racist humor would be. I would take issue with a couple of aspects of this argument: to say that it's rape jokes that perpetuate rape culture, without giving any discernible context, seems misleading to me. Rape culture exists. It's horrid, it's nightmarish, it leads to many living in fear, and too often victims are blamed, shamed, shunned, mistreated, etc. That said, racism exists, including some horrible cases of institutionalized racism. Sexism, as well. Religious intolerance, against both believers and non-believers. Drug culture. Wars exist, awful diseases exist, etc. etc. These things are not perpetuated through comedy that deals with them, at least not the comedy being discussed in this thread. Stand-up comedy and comedic writing have long existed as means of dealing with various awful realities in the world, and filtering them in such a way that an audience is allowed to laugh rather than cry at what might be a truly awful implication. Mel Brooks, for example, composed the song "Springtime for Hitler", in which a stage full of actors dress as Nazi shock troops and sing about "marching to a faster pace/Look out, here comes the master race!". Now, one might argue that Brooks is Jewish, and thus "in the club" for people who can acceptably make Nazi jokes...however, when The Producers was first released in the 1960's, Brooks was scathed for "making light" of World War 2 era atrocities committed by the Third Reich. Does anyone truly believe that Brooks couldn't comprehend the horrors of the Holocaust? That he couldn't comprehend the horror of a government capable of effectively brainwashing nearly an entire people to hate another? No, he recognized them fully; hence, he set out to skewer the culture and societal atmosphere that allows such atrocities to exist. By creating an over-the-top example of something terrible, by creating an absurd construct, he allows his audience to take something deathly serious and instead have a moment to take it it's absurdity. Tosh may not be on Brooks' level, but he's certainly joked about rape before...and in doing so, I'd argue that more often he was creating the same kind of absurd constructs, and using them to demonstrate the insanity and ridiculousness of rape culture. Saying "rape is always funny" is pretty clearly a way of recognizing its seriousness, as the entire humor stems from the audience's knowledge that it IS a serious topic, that it IS awful, but he's now created an absurd, over-the-top context for it to point out what's so wrong in the culture of rape. By saying "rape is always funny", he's effectively saying that "people who actually think rape is funny are friggin' twisted", because no reasonable person would think that. By the by, I think there can also be a disconnect; I whole-heartedly agree that belittling awful realties with truly vile, hateful "jokes" amounts to little more than bigotry, but what we're discussing here isn't that same kind of "humor". A group of yahoos making jokes about, say, homosexuals, with their twisted humor stemming from their actual hatred of them is wrong...I take that to relate to what you call "overt racist humor". But the thread here is discussing a stand-up, professional comic who's creating an on-stage persona. Stand-up comedy, done correctly, of course, comes from what I said before, a place where you create absurd constructs to handle real tragedies. I don't think it's fair to say they're the same. I also saw a comment saying nobody could joke about the Penn State story or joke about child abuse...to which I say that one of the things I've ever laughed the hardest at was the Opie and Anthony show creating a sketch around the fact that the athletic director's name at Penn State was "Curley". Take a guess. The thing is, the comedy didn't come from a place of insulting Sandusky's victims; again, it was a way of handling a truly nightmarish story, and it made Sandusky, Curley, and Paterno the true butts of the joke. Again, anything can be made into comedy. It just has to be handled properly and by true professionals, not coming from a place of complete hatred.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jul 13, 2012 15:00:20 GMT -5
I really debated whether or not to enter into this but I will say that societal acceptance of rape humor perpetuates rape culture, which allows the idea of it to be normalized and not taken as something serious. I think one day rape humor will be regarded in the way that overtly racist humor would be. I would take issue with a couple of aspects of this argument: to say that it's rape jokes that perpetuate rape culture, without giving any discernible context, seems misleading to me. Rape culture exists. It's horrid, it's nightmarish, it leads to many living in fear, and too often victims are blamed, shamed, shunned, mistreated, etc. That said, racism exists, including some horrible cases of institutionalized racism. Sexism, as well. Religious intolerance, against both believers and non-believers. Drug culture. Wars exist, awful diseases exist, etc. etc. These things are not perpetuated through comedy that deals with them, at least not the comedy being discussed in this thread. Stand-up comedy and comedic writing have long existed as means of dealing with various awful realities in the world, and filtering them in such a way that an audience is allowed to laugh rather than cry at what might be a truly awful implication. Mel Brooks, for example, composed the song "Springtime for Hitler", in which a stage full of actors dress as Nazi shock troops and sing about "marching to a faster pace/Look out, here comes the master race!". Now, one might argue that Brooks is Jewish, and thus "in the club" for people who can acceptably make Nazi jokes...however, when The Producers was first released in the 1960's, Brooks was scathed for "making light" of World War 2 era atrocities committed by the Third Reich. Does anyone truly believe that Brooks couldn't comprehend the horrors of the Holocaust? That he couldn't comprehend the horror of a government capable of effectively brainwashing nearly an entire people to hate another? No, he recognized them fully; hence, he set out to skewer the culture and societal atmosphere that allows such atrocities to exist. By creating an over-the-top example of something terrible, by creating an absurd construct, he allows his audience to take something deathly serious and instead have a moment to take it it's absurdity. Tosh may not be on Brooks' level, but he's certainly joked about rape before...and in doing so, I'd argue that more often he was creating the same kind of absurd constructs, and using them to demonstrate the insanity and ridiculousness of rape culture. Saying "rape is always funny" is pretty clearly a way of recognizing its seriousness, as the entire humor stems from the audience's knowledge that it IS a serious topic, that it IS awful, but he's now created an absurd, over-the-top context for it to point out what's so wrong in the culture of rape. By saying "rape is always funny", he's effectively saying that "people who actually think rape is funny are friggin' twisted", because no reasonable person would think that. By the by, I think there can also be a disconnect; I whole-heartedly agree that belittling awful realties with truly vile, hateful "jokes" amounts to little more than bigotry, but what we're discussing here isn't that same kind of "humor". A group of yahoos making jokes about, say, homosexuals, with their twisted humor stemming from their actual hatred of them is wrong...I take that to relate to what you call "overt racist humor". But the thread here is discussing a stand-up, professional comic who's creating an on-stage persona. Stand-up comedy, done correctly, of course, comes from what I said before, a place where you create absurd constructs to handle real tragedies. I don't think it's fair to say they're the same. I also saw a comment saying nobody could joke about the Penn State story or joke about child abuse...to which I say that one of the things I've ever laughed the hardest at was the Opie and Anthony show creating a sketch around the fact that the athletic director's name at Penn State was "Curley". Take a guess. The thing is, the comedy didn't come from a place of insulting Sandusky's victims; again, it was a way of handling a truly nightmarish story, and it made Sandusky, Curley, and Paterno the true butts of the joke. Again, anything can be made into comedy. It just has to be handled properly and by true professionals, not coming from a place of complete hatred. Where's that Citizen Kane clapping GIF when I need it?
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 13, 2012 15:01:50 GMT -5
I don't take this article as a debunking, really, just an opening for more discussion with more specific questions and better methodology for determining real rape statistics. Plus, I'm not sure it really takes underreported cases that well into account.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2012 16:16:16 GMT -5
I don't take this article as a debunking, really, just an opening for more discussion with more specific questions and better methodology for determining real rape statistics. Plus, I'm not sure it really takes underreported cases that well into account. Fair enough.
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Post by wcw on Jul 13, 2012 16:33:16 GMT -5
The moment you take what a COMEDIAN in a COMEDY club says seriously you lose me. Let me just let Patrice Oneal explain.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 13, 2012 16:37:05 GMT -5
^^^^^Dude, please read the thread, that video was already posted.
Plus, while I agree with a lot of Patrice's points there (albeit I'm not interested in anybody here trying to write in the style he spoke...leave that to the pro's, please), it doesn't help a lot in a thread like this when the video describes the woman as a "broad"...or "brawd" in this case.
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King Ghidorah
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Post by King Ghidorah on Jul 13, 2012 19:30:12 GMT -5
The Heckler
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Jul 13, 2012 19:45:15 GMT -5
The Heckler Man, I know HEROES had to be a rough experience for him, but there were better ways for Noah Bennet to go into hiding than having a sex change!
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unc40
Dennis Stamp
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Post by unc40 on Jul 13, 2012 21:10:48 GMT -5
I understand comedians not liking to be heckled however Tosh's response "wouldn't it be funny if five guys raped her" isn't funny. When I say its not funny I don't mean its offensive I mean that it wasn't even a joke it was just a general statement. He might as well said "wouldn't it be funny if that lady went across the street and bought a newspaper."
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 13, 2012 21:16:49 GMT -5
Wow, there are bad photos, bad photos, and then there's THAT.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jul 13, 2012 21:21:00 GMT -5
Is it an unwritten rule that all annoying feminists must wear stupid looking glasses?
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Jul 13, 2012 21:38:36 GMT -5
I understand comedians not liking to be heckled however Tosh's response "wouldn't it be funny if five guys raped her" isn't funny. When I say its not funny I don't mean its offensive I mean that it wasn't even a joke it was just a general statement. He might as well said "wouldn't it be funny if that lady went across the street and bought a newspaper." A lot of Tosh's humor lies in his delivery. It has to be heard to take optimum effect.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 13, 2012 21:56:38 GMT -5
All those females with opinions and feelings I don't like, why must they look so unpleasing to the eye? Why can't they have large tits and post those tits on the Chive under "FLBP"? I can't fap to that.
Ok, my feminist defences and senses are tingling. In the immortal words of Zack Ryder, are you serious bros? We're burying the person who did have a visceral, maybe misplaced response to a subject that bothers a lot of women and people in general. Even while it was in character, it's nice to reinforce the social standards that we have to shut a woman down by threatening sexual violence to her. I was trying to look at all sides, as I'm very much into free speech, hell, I probably improperly used MLK Jr. and Rosa Parks as ways to defend Chris Jericho kicking a flag. So obviously free speech is important to me. I'm reading around and I found this one quote, that again, it going to be a pretty feministic attitude I guess, but here it goes:
That's a salon opinion piece by the way. Even with the character, just like with everything I debate about, it's the principle. So yeah, I guess my magic pixie princess part of me is a bit up in arms about the sexist attitudes and again, these are all likely jokes at the woman's expense, it's just a joke, which part of me understands, but I'm also uncomfortable in making fun of the appearance of the lady who was told he hoped she would be gang raped. So not only did Tosh, in character even, demean her with threats of sexual violence, now in the end, we must continue on with it with her appearance, because that's all that matters with women. Damn, I wonder if this is going to be another late night for me, haha.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 13, 2012 22:06:11 GMT -5
^I'm gonna just say it's a bad photo, with her face all scrunched up, not only moving around her back but the neck as well. I understand comedians not liking to be heckled however Tosh's response "wouldn't it be funny if five guys raped her" isn't funny. When I say its not funny I don't mean its offensive I mean that it wasn't even a joke it was just a general statement. He might as well said "wouldn't it be funny if that lady went across the street and bought a newspaper." I think it helps with the preceding stuff of the silly stirng joke, her reaction, and him kind of going into that.
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Jul 13, 2012 22:12:02 GMT -5
All those females with opinions and feelings I don't like, why must they look so unpleasing to the eye? Why can't they have large tits and post those tits on the Chive under "FLBP"? I can't fap to that. Ok, my feminist defences and senses are tingling. In the immortal words of Zack Ryder, are you serious bros? We're burying the person who did have a visceral, maybe misplaced response to a subject that bothers a lot of women and people in general. Even while it was in character, it's nice to reinforce the social standards that we have to shut a woman down by threatening sexual violence to her. I was trying to look at all sides, as I'm very much into free speech, hell, I probably improperly used MLK Jr. and Rosa Parks as ways to defend Chris Jericho kicking a flag. So obviously free speech is important to me. I'm reading around and I found this one quote, that again, it going to be a pretty feministic attitude I guess, but here it goes: That's a salon opinion piece by the way. Even with the character, just like with everything I debate about, it's the principle. So yeah, I guess my magic pixie princess part of me is a bit up in arms about the sexist attitudes and again, these are all likely jokes at the woman's expense, it's just a joke, which part of me understands, but I'm also uncomfortable in making fun of the appearance of the lady who was told he hoped she would be gang raped. So not only did Tosh, in character even, demean her with threats of sexual violence, now in the end, we must continue on with it with her appearance, because that's all that matters with women. Damn, I wonder if this is going to be another late night for me, haha. Can you please stop looking for hills to die on? You don't have to pick apart every comment and find how it demeans women.
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