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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Jul 10, 2012 23:08:29 GMT -5
Both the Keaton Batman films have a morbid edge to them, especially given they seem to be one of the few non-comic portrayals that suggest Batman just might be insane for doing what he does, and that's something Wayne seems aware of. That's why I love them. In Returns, the first time you see Bruce Wayne is when he's sitting alone in the dark in Wayne Manor, just waiting for the Bat Signal to go off. There's something seriously wrong with the guy.
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Post by "I'm Batman..." on Jul 10, 2012 23:12:20 GMT -5
"I'm Batman".
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Post by hotshotalex on Jul 10, 2012 23:15:36 GMT -5
I loved it as a kid but to be honest it has aged horribly.
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Post by celticjobber on Jul 10, 2012 23:16:05 GMT -5
It just seems like a weird thing to me, I guess they just assumed (correctly) that everyone knows all this stuff and just want to see Batman and not Bruce Wayne guy in training. Which kind of makes me ponder what Batman Begins did. Yeah, that whole first hour or so of "Batman Begins" where Bruce is in training really bored me and dragged that movie down, IMO.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jul 11, 2012 0:12:50 GMT -5
Both the Keaton Batman films have a morbid edge to them, especially given they seem to be one of the few non-comic portrayals that suggest Batman just might be insane for doing what he does, and that's something Wayne seems aware of. That's why I love them. In Returns, the first time you see Bruce Wayne is when he's sitting alone in the dark in Wayne Manor, just waiting for the Bat Signal to go off. There's something seriously wrong with the guy. That's a great scene. Probably one of the best and most epic Batman moments in cinema history.
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Post by Evilution E5150 on Jul 11, 2012 0:31:34 GMT -5
That's why I love them. In Returns, the first time you see Bruce Wayne is when he's sitting alone in the dark in Wayne Manor, just waiting for the Bat Signal to go off. There's something seriously wrong with the guy. That's a great scene. Probably one of the best and most epic Batman moments in cinema history. yeah Keaton totally plays Wayne so detached from whats going on around him, there is something very wrong with him clearly, especially the first film where he just stands there and stares at Joker when everyones getting gunned down or when hes following Vicky Vale around at the start
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Jul 11, 2012 1:17:31 GMT -5
Honestly though, in that line of work, you gotta figure death is probably going to end up happening eventually. I mean, these guys are pretty much trying to kill you, you have to defend yourself and as much as you may not want to retaliate with something deadly, sometimes you really don't have much choice.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Jul 11, 2012 2:22:21 GMT -5
I love all the different interpretations of Batman. I really feel like he's the most versatile superhero in the mainstream.
Michael Keaton was the Golden Age Batman of 1939-1940, before Robin toned down the grimness. Keaton and Burton also added their own flourishes (Bruce Wayne being a closed-off weirdo, Gotham being a gothic nightmare) that the comics later adopted in one form or another.
Adam West was the mid-'60s Silver Age Batman. Lighthearted, he felt like a big kid playing dress-up and having a blast doing it.
Christian Bale is the Batman of Frank Miller, Jeph Loeb, Denny O'Neil, Jim Aparo, etc. The Batman of the '70s through today. He's grim, but he has a code of ethics.
They're all fantastic, in my opinion.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jul 11, 2012 3:55:51 GMT -5
The thing about Batman killing is that it makes him less of a symbol of justice and more of an unhinged lunatic who considers himself above the law. It's a distinction Batman Begins made very clear. It's especially weird since Tim Burton apprently loves The Killing Joke, yet he must have missed the part where Gordon tell Batman to bring in Joker "by the book" to show him that their way works. Both the Keaton Batman films have a morbid edge to them, especially given they seem to be one of the few non-comic portrayals that suggest Batman just might be insane for doing what he does, and that's something Wayne seems aware of. That the weird thing. Tim Burton and Sam Hamm miss the mark so much in regard to the Batman character but there's the odd thing they get right. Like the scene with Bruce and Vickie in that massive dining room where Bruce is just so uncomfortable in his own opulance. Bruce being uncormfortabole in his own skin is about the only thing they got right.
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The Sam
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Post by The Sam on Jul 11, 2012 4:14:21 GMT -5
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Jul 11, 2012 5:01:41 GMT -5
I just watched Batman for the first time since I was a kid the other night. Keaton's performance is an interesting take on the character but the movie is a mess. The screenplay is seriously terrible.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
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Post by dav on Jul 11, 2012 6:11:31 GMT -5
Both the Keaton Batman films have a morbid edge to them, especially given they seem to be one of the few non-comic portrayals that suggest Batman just might be insane for doing what he does, and that's something Wayne seems aware of. That's why I love them. In Returns, the first time you see Bruce Wayne is when he's sitting alone in the dark in Wayne Manor, just waiting for the Bat Signal to go off. There's something seriously wrong with the guy. That always bothered me about the Burton films. Wayne does an absolutely crappy job of hiding the fact he's Batman. He basically just lets Alfred get away with it in the first movie and he has these huge reflectors in Returns that basically give away he's Batman from a mile away along with him blatantly giving away his investigation into Walken's energy scheme.
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TheDieselTrain
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Jul 11, 2012 6:26:47 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Burton and Nolans but its annoying when the Nolanites bash '89 and Returns because Batman kills.
Umm............. Batman pushed Harvey Dent off a freakin ledge killing him in TDK!!!!!!!!
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Jul 11, 2012 7:38:16 GMT -5
I still prefer it (And returns) to the Nolan movies
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JDviant
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Post by JDviant on Jul 11, 2012 7:46:45 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Burton and Nolans but its annoying when the Nolanites bash '89 and Returns because Batman kills. Umm............. Batman pushed Harvey Dent off a freakin edge killing him in TDK!!!!!!!! And there's also that TERRIBLE "I won't kill you but I won't save you" bit from the first one. Batman was choosing to let the man die.
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dav
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Post by dav on Jul 11, 2012 8:22:12 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Burton and Nolans but its annoying when the Nolanites bash '89 and Returns because Batman kills. Umm............. Batman pushed Harvey Dent off a freakin ledge killing him in TDK!!!!!!!! There's a difference between a desperate lunge when trying to save a child's life and blowing up an entire factory with numerous people within.
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darthalexander
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Post by darthalexander on Jul 11, 2012 8:46:32 GMT -5
I think one of the biggest things that stick out for me about Batman 89 was the news of the casting of Keaton as Batman. Had the net existed then like it does now, wow. I remember going into comic shops and hearing non-stop bitching about it. Turns out he was pretty damn good.
When the news broke that he was wearing lifts and special 'Nike' Shoes - man, did that ever go over bad. I remember hearing this one a lot: "You know who THEY got to play Batman???!!!! MR. MOM!!!!"
The film itself was ok, I really loved Batman Returns though. It's still my favorite Batman movie.
The thing I hated was that they made Joker the one who killed Bruce's parents. That bothered me so much. That whole "Did you ever dance with the devil..." quote was annoying. It was an early meme around here. Seemed like every comic store I went into I'd hear it.
I love Jack, but I think Jim Carrey would have made a better Joker.
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Post by Ryushinku on Jul 11, 2012 8:56:47 GMT -5
If anything, I think Keaton made a better Wayne than he did Batman. They covered it pretty well with the muscle suit and so on, but he was so much more interesting with this weird, unbalanced take on Wayne. Underplayed, not a gibbering lunatic but, as someone said, just a strong "there's something not quite right about this guy" vibe. He played him like damaged goods, rather than someone with two personalities.
I do think The Big Wiggle put it very well, though, there's something in those three depictions that I find interesting and enjoy in different ways. West, Keaton and Bale. Hell, throw in Conroy if you like too. Variations on a theme.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jul 11, 2012 9:07:02 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Burton and Nolans but its annoying when the Nolanites bash '89 and Returns because Batman kills. Umm............. Batman pushed Harvey Dent off a frea kin ledge killing him in TDK!!!!!!!! Except, you know, that was a major plot point. Joker is determined to make Batman break him no-kills rule and he eventually does though not quite in the way he was expecting. It's entirely organic to the screenplay. On the other hand Tim Burton has Batman machine gunning Joker's thugs and smiling as he straps bombs to clowns for reasons that make absolutely no sense to the character beyond trying to make him a typical macho action hero. But to be fair I can't defend "I won't kill you but I don't have to save you." Competely out of character for the Batman they've established to that point compounded by the fact that in a similar situation in the next movie he actually does choose to save the Joker, who is arguably far worse thn Ra's. I dunno, maybe Dark Knight Rises will shed some light on this. But I doubt it.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 11, 2012 10:22:57 GMT -5
"I'm glad you're dead!!! HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!"
;D
Awesome movie. Superior to Nolan's reboot.
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