erisi236
Fry's dog Seymour
... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
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Post by erisi236 on Jul 11, 2012 18:34:24 GMT -5
Batman seems to have a floating moral compass based on the whims of the writers. He might not pull the trigger, but he's not above using guys as human shields.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jul 11, 2012 18:37:50 GMT -5
But like I said, he holds onto the info and gives it to Vickie instead of the proper authorities himself, which as Vickie points he could have easily done. The paper was a better avenue for him, as it got the word out. Also, Batman was still on the wanted list, especially after the incident in the chemical works. It's why the reporter was asking if this Batman was actually a foe or a friend? I don't think this movie established his relationship with Gordon & the police until the end of the movie, with the reveal of the Bat signal. I was going say he could have done something as Bruce Wayne shince he's connected but that's another thing the film is kinda weird about. He's close enough to Gordon and Dent to bag an invite to the little rally/luncheon/whatever the hell it was at the beginning and to have Gordon and a whole bunch of GCPD to the charity casino at Wayne Manor but at the same time Vickie and Knox have no idea who he is and have a hard time digging up info on him. So is Bruce a well connected player or a mysterious recluse? The movie can't seem to decide.
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on Jul 11, 2012 19:09:19 GMT -5
I wasn't bothered by the killings. It worked if you view it as a homage to the original Batman concept. Hell I believe its early in his career enough that killing is something that doesn't bother him as much as it does down the road. That's always what I figured. Sort of a full face turn.
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Post by austinariesfan88 on Jul 11, 2012 19:10:18 GMT -5
Both the Keaton Batman films have a morbid edge to them, especially given they seem to be one of the few non-comic portrayals that suggest Batman just might be insane for doing what he does, and that's something Wayne seems aware of. That's why I love them. In Returns, the first time you see Bruce Wayne is when he's sitting alone in the dark in Wayne Manor, just waiting for the Bat Signal to go off. There's something seriously wrong with the guy. One of my favorite scenes in the movie.
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dav
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Post by dav on Jul 11, 2012 19:32:32 GMT -5
That's why I love them. In Returns, the first time you see Bruce Wayne is when he's sitting alone in the dark in Wayne Manor, just waiting for the Bat Signal to go off. There's something seriously wrong with the guy. One of my favorite scenes in the movie. I like how stylish it is but what happens when he's got people around and it goes off? How do you go about explaining the giant night lights that let everyone know he's keeping an eye on when the Bat signal goes off?
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PKO
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Post by PKO on Jul 11, 2012 20:01:04 GMT -5
I love the two Burton Batman films and the (so far) two Nolan Batman films. They're so different in so many ways I don't want to compare them. They both work in their own universes.
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Post by Some Guy on Jul 11, 2012 20:03:41 GMT -5
You do realize she's the Assistant DA, right? She's not as important as Dent, but she's pretty damn important herself. Plus, he never started pummeling him until he brought up Rachel, the woman he's known since he was a kid and basically the only person other than Alfred that would absolutely decimate him if she died. It's just him being human, that's far less ridiculous than some of the shit in the Burton movies.
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Post by Some Guy on Jul 12, 2012 0:01:40 GMT -5
Hey, if we're going to break down the plot holes of Batman not being a just character in one movie, it's only fair to do it in the other. Also, he starts his interrogation by slamming Joker's head against the table, before Rachel is mentioned. 1:25 Batman in all phases does that to criminals, it's not like he's killing him.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Jul 12, 2012 0:12:41 GMT -5
I love how in Arkham City he's beating shirtless guys to unconciousness and leaving them outside in below 0 degree weather. Surely there had to have been some casulties from that. I know it's a video game, I just found it odd.
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JDviant
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Post by JDviant on Jul 12, 2012 1:19:25 GMT -5
Just a random mention, but as far as keeping Joker away from hurting people he will put legality over morality. Case in point, the comic in the 90's by Chuck Dixon (who is no hack - he wrote some of the best Batman stuff that decade), where Gotham FINALLY decides to give Joker the death penalty, but Batman stops it because he was framed for that one particular murder in question.
He's a weird dude.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Jul 12, 2012 1:37:12 GMT -5
Hey, if we're going to break down the plot holes of Batman not being a just character in one movie, it's only fair to do it in the other. Also, he starts his interrogation by slamming Joker's head against the table, before Rachel is mentioned. 1:25 Batman in all phases does that to criminals, it's not like he's killing him. To me, there's a difference between self-defense and what effectively might as well be called torture. If Batman breaks a guy's arm while he's in the midle of a fight, it's self-defense. If Batman breaks a guy's arm to get information out of someone, it's torture. And even then, there's a difference between mental torture that doesn't cause physical harm and actual physical harm itself. For instance, in "Batman Begins," Batman hangs the crooked cop upside down storeys in the air, presumably with the threat of dropping him. Psychological torture, no physical abuse (beside the slight fall and likely damage to his ankle from being ripcorded up that fast to that height). Batman beating up the Joker in "The Dark Knight"? Physical torture. But since it's okay with the Joker, it's okay for us right? Eh... Also in "The Dark Knight" is the scene when Batman drops Maroni from a firescape thus resulting in Maroni breaking his legs. Torture, no? Because imagine if the Penguin or Two-Face or someone did that to one of his thugs. That would be the action of a 'bad guy'. Good guys don't torture, right? So in the Burton films you have a Batman willing to intentionally kill, and in the Nolan films you have a Batman willing to intentionally torture. All in the name of security and peace in Gotham.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 12, 2012 1:50:36 GMT -5
On a different note, has anyone ever went into detail about Batman's own schizophrenic issues? I mean, it's been kind of apparent that Batman and Bruce are two different people in his mind. You'd figure it could be something big, and not just a throw away story in Forever, especially all the different villains who also fit that bill.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Jul 12, 2012 2:04:31 GMT -5
On a different note, has anyone ever went into detail about Batman's own schizophrenic issues? I mean, it's been kind of apparent that Batman and Bruce are two different people in his mind. You'd figure it could be something big, and not just a throw away story in Forever, especially all the different villains who also fit that bill. Yeah, he's stalling, but I think Keaton's Batman played with the fact that Bruce Wayne has some deep-seated PTSD and dissociative identity issues.
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Renslayer
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Post by Renslayer on Jul 12, 2012 2:09:18 GMT -5
Uh in the comic books , Batman repeatedly allows The Joker (a man who has crippled his best friend's daughter and killed several thousand people by this point.) to escape from Akharm only to reput him in the SAME PLACE HE ESCAPE FROM WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING TO MAKE IT ANY MORE SECURE THEN IT WAS. Batman isn't really the most "sane" person in the world. I mean I get that he has a code against killing but what about a lobotomy? drug induced coma? Shipping him to another planet? Implanting his min in a rat? ANYTHING? Anything better then just letting him break out of prison to kill more people again. I think there was a Justice League episode that dealt with Gotham criminals in Arkham getting lobotomized by Superman's heat vision in some dark past. Creepy. Lesser extent, Batman did that in the 1966 series, with Black Widow. He used her mind control for "rehabilitation". Sort of a creepy move in retrospect. Yup. And later in the series, Batman got pissed off when the League sent Doomsday to the Phantom Zone.
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Jul 12, 2012 2:36:14 GMT -5
On a different note, has anyone ever went into detail about Batman's own schizophrenic issues? I mean, it's been kind of apparent that Batman and Bruce are two different people in his mind. You'd figure it could be something big, and not just a throw away story in Forever, especially all the different villains who also fit that bill. Yeah, he's stalling, but I think Keaton's Batman played with the fact that Bruce Wayne has some deep-seated PTSD and dissociative identity issues. I find that to be easily the most interesting scene in the movie.
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