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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2012 18:08:56 GMT -5
You know, I really hate the thought that "If you call someone hot or say they have nice breasts, it's a stepping stone to RAPING HER." It's such a leap in logic, Mario couldn't make that goddamn leap from Yoshi's back.
HMark, I disagree entirely with you. If you wear something fancy or predicative or anything from "normal", you want attention. It's not always sexual or based on trying to get someone, but you're out there, trying to impress, either to show off that you look good, you are well off, or any number of reasons to get the spotlight on YOU. However, to act so offended when that attention is returned, positive or negative, is such a hypocritical move to make. i'm not blaming a victim, cause there is no crime.
I've seen the same pose and style in model pictures, ads for movies and video games with women trying to look sexy. Hell, that pose was no different from Mai's from King of Fighters.
Does that means she should get raped or harassed severely cause of that pic. No, of course not. However, trying to act all innocent and trying to pull that "I can't believe a guy would look at me like a piece of meat" while trying to look provocative.......give me a goiddamn break!
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jul 26, 2012 18:12:36 GMT -5
I guess I want to fight to change things, but these things should be fought and these perceptions should be fought. I talked to a female on this board and felt that people who are harassing someone, the messages should be publicly posted. And again, people talk about the picture, a lot of the time, the picture is an excuse, because it happens to people with no sexual content in the picture. It's happening on this message board, or it has happened, or it will happen, and that pisses me off to no end. The Lufisto incident is always brought to the forefront, and that may also be another issue with celebrity worship.
People are taking advantage of the anonymity of the internet, and I guess it's difficult to pin point who these people are. But, I guess I would love a "To Catch a Predator" style expose on people who do that and ask them what they were thinking and why they were wanting to do that. But while I'm not naive and understand it's going to happen, it shouldn't be acceptable or normal.
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"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Jul 26, 2012 18:22:45 GMT -5
People are taking advantage of the anonymity of the internet, and I guess it's difficult to pin point who these people are. But, I guess I would love a "To Catch a Predator" style expose on people who do that and ask them what they were thinking and why they were wanting to do that. But while I'm not naive and understand it's going to happen, it shouldn't be acceptable or normal. "Why did you send that female a provocative message?" "Because I thought there was a chance I might get laid." "But what were you thinking when you did that?" "I was thinking I'd like to have sex with her." That's it. Right or wrong, that's it. Chris Rock once said, "'Sleep with me or you're fired' - that's sexual harassment! Everything else is just trying to get laid!" And again, agree or disagree, right or wrong, that's what it boils down to 99% of the time. It's the in-the-pants head over-ruling the on-the-shoulders head and people acting stupid. That's literally all that can be said. We can fight and protest and what-have-you all day, but sex is a basic human need, and some people are going to let instinct take over. It's not right to make someone uncomfortable or to blame the "victim," I agree. But being male, and being sexual, and being a realist, it's going to happen. To say that you, as a male, have never objectified a woman is a lie. Plain and simple, unless you are homosexual (in which case, you've most likely objectified a man) or non-sexual, if you are a male you have objectified a woman. Again, I'm not saying it's "right." I'm just saying that's life. A lot of the time, life is bullshit. People don't deserve a lot of the shit that happens to them, but it happens anyway. And it always will. Fight the good fight, by all means. But there will always be that one asshole out there who disagrees with you and keeps the fight going, and so it always will until the sun swallows up the Milky Way.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 26, 2012 18:26:59 GMT -5
HMark, I disagree entirely with you. If you wear something fancy or predicative or anything from "normal", you want attention No.
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Arrow
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Post by Arrow on Jul 26, 2012 18:27:04 GMT -5
But while I'm not naive and understand it's going to happen, it shouldn't be acceptable or normal. I doubt you'd find anyone here who'd disagree with that, but at the same time, people have to understand that not everyone's going to go along with what's "acceptable or normal". I sympathize with girls who just want to post their pictures up without some guy saying creepy things, but at the same time... you know they're out there, so if you don't want to deal with them, why would you do something that'd actively catch their attention? I'm not trying to blame them or state that they're in the wrong, but at least be aware that these strange guys are out there.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2012 18:30:56 GMT -5
HMark, I disagree entirely with you. If you wear something fancy or predicative or anything from "normal", you want attention No. Can you explain how, then?
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Jul 26, 2012 18:32:30 GMT -5
I've only seen this happen once, but it was with a girl who gets into fights about anything, so I don't take it to mean much. Sometimes it's related to womens issues (like when she got into an argument because she said men can't be victims of sexism) but she picks a fight with anyone.
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theryno665
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Post by theryno665 on Jul 26, 2012 18:36:14 GMT -5
Dammit Off Topic, you're really harshing my mellow.
You used to be the cool board, but you changed, maaaaaaaan.
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King Ghidorah
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Post by King Ghidorah on Jul 26, 2012 18:38:14 GMT -5
Dammit Off Topic, you're really harshing my mellow. You used to be the cool board, but you changed, maaaaaaaan. Well maybe your mellow sucks! *Throws a chair*
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Post by Shy Guy on Jul 26, 2012 18:41:51 GMT -5
Can you explain how, then? so a few months ago, i bought this super cute blue dress. it really comes in at the waist, flows out nicely to just above my knee, and the colour looks nice. i bought it. i didn't buy it so guys would hit on me\want to rape me. i bought it because i like how good i felt in it.
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King Ghidorah
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On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on Jul 26, 2012 18:43:54 GMT -5
Can you explain how, then? so a few months ago, i bought this super cute blue dress. it really comes in at the waist, flows out nicely to just above my knee, and the colour looks nice. i bought it. i didn't buy it so guys would hit on me\want to rape me. i bought it because i like how good i felt in it. That sounds like a normal wholesome picture, just like the swimsuit pic I posted. Your bags of sand were not hanging out, and since you had a dress there was no need for pants! Now if I sent you a message saying "Oh that looks nice" That's not sexual harassment.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2012 18:44:48 GMT -5
Can you explain how, then? so a few months ago, i bought this super cute blue dress. it really comes in at the waist, flows out nicely to just above my knee, and the colour looks nice. i bought it. i didn't buy it so guys would hit on me\want to rape me. i bought it because i like how good i felt in it. I'm betting you wear it in public, right? Attention isn't about selfishness, it could be "hey, I look good and feel good right now" and it would still cause people to pay attention, it's an involuntary action, after all.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 26, 2012 18:48:50 GMT -5
Think I've figured out where there's a bit of a disconnect:
I think the vast majority of sane, rational people will agree "nothing justifies harassing behavior. No matter what a woman is dressed like or whatever she's doing, you don't have justification to be a creep towards her."
I ALSO think that same vast majority will agree that people do need to be aware of their surroundings, and be aware that if they put something forward in a public forum, then it is open to public scrutiny, including scrutiny from unsavory characters. "If you're going to put a picture of yourself in lingerie on Plenty of Fish, some people are going to say terrible things to you."
Both are rational things to think and tell people. I think the disconnect comes from which side people want to see addressed first.
Honestly, I think the right answer is to make the first comment the most widespread. The message of "I don't care if she's posing nude, shut your trap and keep your hands to yourself" is the most important one, and society needs to move in that direction.
The second comment is also justifiable: if there's a bar in town that has a bad reputation, you'd hope that a potential victim would have the foresight to think "I'm either not going there, or if I do I'll have people there who'll have my back if something bad happens," (this could apply to a woman being harassed or a guy getting dragged into a fight...or hell, even visa versa).
I really think most people agree on both; the issue is more what one's primary response to the problem is.
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The Line
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Post by The Line on Jul 26, 2012 18:51:57 GMT -5
Can you explain how, then? I mean, even from my P.O.V., a male standpoint, I think your comment is B.S., no offense. I definitely wear clothes that, in my town (a very bro-orientated college town) aren't "normal". I wear "loud" shirts and skinny jeans(and I'll be the first to tell you, I've got the legs and ass of a 17 year old girl). I don't wear these clothes for attention(although I do get it. Usually guys calling me a faggot), but rather I like the fit of the pants, and I prefer color over blacks, whites, greys and dark blues that most nicer-looking men's shirts seem to come in these days. Just because someone else, someone who may have breasts and a vagina, wears "different" clothes that they like doesn't mean they're putting themselves on any sort of pedestal or under any kind of looking glass.
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"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
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Posts: 15,300
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Jul 26, 2012 18:53:56 GMT -5
Think I've figured out where there's a bit of a disconnect: I think the vast majority of sane, rational people will agree "nothing justifies harassing behavior. No matter what a woman is dressed like or whatever she's doing, you don't have justification to be a creep towards her." I ALSO think that same vast majority will agree that people do need to be aware of their surroundings, and be aware that if they put something forward in a public forum, then it is open to public scrutiny, including scrutiny from unsavory characters. "If you're going to put a picture of yourself in lingerie on Plenty of Fish, some people are going to say terrible things to you." Both are rational things to think and tell people. I think the disconnect comes from which side people want to see addressed first. Honestly, I think the right answer is to make the first comment the most widespread. The message of "I don't care if she's posing nude, shut your trap and keep your hands to yourself" is the most important one, and society needs to move in that direction. The second comment is also justifiable: if there's a bar in town that has a bad reputation, you'd hope that a potential victim would have the foresight to think "I'm either not going there, or if I do I'll have people there who'll have my back if something bad happens," (this could apply to a woman being harassed or a guy getting dragged into a fight...or hell, even visa versa). I really think most people agree on both; the issue is more what one's primary response to the problem is. I think sums it up pretty well. And maybe I was taking the stance that was more apropos to what I'm like IRL: I would never, ever, EVER rape a woman or intentionally be a creeper or in any way purposefully make her uncomfortable. I will, however, compliment her if I think she looks good. If we're particularly close friends, I might even say something that others might find inappropriate. But then again, in that instance, my friends know me, and really should expect it.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2012 18:54:07 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the right answer is to make the first comment the most widespread. The message of "I don't care if she's posing nude, shut your trap and keep your hands to yourself" is the most important one, and society needs to move in that direction. Wouldn't it make sense to ask why she was naked in the first place? I think the real issue is that both understand that whole issue of "harassment is bad", but it seems like the line which people can't cross is different. For some, it's a direct action toward someone, and for others it's some dialog.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2012 18:55:41 GMT -5
Can you explain how, then? I mean, even from my P.O.V., a male standpoint, I think your comment is B.S., no offense. I definitely wear clothes that, in my town (a very bro-orientated college town) aren't "normal". I wear "loud" shirts and skinny jeans(and I'll be the first to tell you, I've got the legs and ass of a 17 year old girl). I don't wear these clothes for attention(although I do get it. Usually guys calling me a faggot), but rather I like the fit of the pants, and I prefer color over blacks, whites, greys and dark blues that most nicer-looking men's shirts seem to come in these days. Just because someone else, someone who may have breasts and a vagina, wears "different" clothes that they like doesn't mean they're putting themselves on any sort of pedestal or under any kind of looking glass. In what world are jeans and shirts not normal gear? You'll probably see jeans and shirts of all colors in a mall and it would look normal. See a long glowing gown and designer shoes, it will probably raise some attention.
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The Line
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Post by The Line on Jul 26, 2012 19:03:45 GMT -5
I mean, even from my P.O.V., a male standpoint, I think your comment is B.S., no offense. I definitely wear clothes that, in my town (a very bro-orientated college town) aren't "normal". I wear "loud" shirts and skinny jeans(and I'll be the first to tell you, I've got the legs and ass of a 17 year old girl). I don't wear these clothes for attention(although I do get it. Usually guys calling me a faggot), but rather I like the fit of the pants, and I prefer color over blacks, whites, greys and dark blues that most nicer-looking men's shirts seem to come in these days. Just because someone else, someone who may have breasts and a vagina, wears "different" clothes that they like doesn't mean they're putting themselves on any sort of pedestal or under any kind of looking glass. In what world are jeans and shirts not normal gear? You'll probably see jeans and shirts of all colors in a mall and it would look normal. See a long glowing gown and designer shoes, it will probably raise some attention. skinny jeans, at least in my town, are far from normal(and to be fair, we also don't have a mall ). As I said, my attire does draw negative feedback(hell, I got called a fag by someone driving by as I walking home from work today, and I was even wearing a gray t-shirt:p). I don't particularly like being called such names(so obviously me wearing these clothes isn't just to draw attention from the Greek boys ), but I'm not going to let some douchebags dictate my fashion. Well, one douchebag can(me)
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Post by Michael Coello on Jul 26, 2012 19:08:41 GMT -5
In what world are jeans and shirts not normal gear? You'll probably see jeans and shirts of all colors in a mall and it would look normal. See a long glowing gown and designer shoes, it will probably raise some attention. skinny jeans, at least in my town, are far from normal(and to be fair, we also don't have a mall ). As I said, my attire does draw negative feedback(hell, I got called a fag by someone driving by as I walking home from work today, and I was even wearing a gray t-shirt:p). I don't particularly like being called such names(so obviously me wearing these clothes isn't just to draw attention from the Greek boys ), but I'm not going to let some douchebags dictate my fashion. Well, one douchebag can(me) Though, were you called that cause of what you wore or cause they were dicks who would call you that if it was anything else in your closet?
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 26, 2012 19:09:34 GMT -5
In what world are jeans and shirts not normal gear? You'll probably see jeans and shirts of all colors in a mall and it would look normal. See a long glowing gown and designer shoes, it will probably raise some attention. skinny jeans, at least in my town, are far from normal(and to be fair, we also don't have a mall ). As I said, my attire does draw negative feedback(hell, I got called a fag by someone driving by as I walking home from work today, and I was even wearing a gray t-shirt:p). I don't particularly like being called such names(so obviously me wearing these clothes isn't just to draw attention from the Greek boys ), but I'm not going to let some douchebags dictate my fashion. Well, one douchebag can(me) Right; "normal" tends to vary quite a bit from place to place, region to region, town to town. To say that any one outfit qualifies as "normal" while another doesn't is very presumptuous, outside of extreme examples. EDIT: And in even in "extreme" examples, it's still not anybody's place to go around giving unasked for comments. "You look great in that" is certainly one thing, and is a pretty harmless thing to say, but I think it's pretty clear that this thread is discussing overt sexual overtures based simply on a way a person is dressed/posing/etc.
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