H-Virus
Hank Scorpio
A Real Contagious Experience
Posts: 5,962
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Post by H-Virus on Dec 8, 2012 23:05:44 GMT -5
Give. Divas. Gimmicks.
Seriously, it's the simplest thing in the world. Aside from AJ, you can't tell one diva's personality apart from any others (separating the heels and faces, at least). If someone were to ask me to select one diva at random, and list 3 non-physical traits that separate her from any of the other divas, I wouldn't be able to do it.
In the last 5 years, the most memorable divas (for me) have been:
AJ: Adorable geek turned obsessive-schizophrenic due to one bad relationship that's carried on into several others.
Kharma: Behemoth of a woman who could tear apart anyone in front of her, including several guys. Career cut far too short.
Maria: Played the part of a lovable ditz perfectly, and while not a good wrestler, was still fun and funny to watch.
Ariel: Sexy, slutty vampire girl who, like Maria, might not have been a good wrestler, but still had more character than just about any other diva at the same time.
Now look at the male wrestlers: We've got a Jersey Shore gimmick in Zack Ryder, a Holier-Than-Thou gimmick in Damien Sandow, a Rock Band gimmick in 3MB, a sibling-rivalry/married-couple gimmick in Team Hell No on top of their individual gimmicks, and they're currently running vignettes for a ball-room dancer gimmick in Fandango. Just to name a few.
What exactly is stopping them from taking some of these more outlandish gimmicks and applying them to the divas instead of pushing them all into the molds of Generic Diva A (Face) and Generic Diva B (Heel)? Obviously, this wouldn't help with the quality of matches, but it would at least make the division a little more diverse and compelling.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Dec 8, 2012 23:15:17 GMT -5
Give AJ the Diva's Title
There, I just saved your division
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 8, 2012 23:16:49 GMT -5
I’m quite frankly astonished that Hunter and Steph have three daughters yet they are so blasé about providing positive female role models on a television show that they control. Surely they are aware of Twilight and The Hunger Games – and how females are willing to part with their cash in great amounts? Comparing Twilight to Hunger Games is Apples and Oranges. Anyone who thinks Bella is inspirational or a role model needs to be launched into space. However, Katniss at least has all the traits of a classic hero archetype. Bella is a boring, flat character that two supernatural men supposedly fight over, despite bringing zero to the table. She's only appealing to the absolute shallowest human beings. Katniss however is the opposite from the book I read. She steps up for her sister, and fights for the underdog herself, while overcoming lethal odds.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2012 23:17:48 GMT -5
The biggest problem isn't with WHO but with WHAT.
WWE has no idea how to utilize their current divas to their obvious strengths.
And the lack of allowing them to show off individual traits that would allow them to be seperated from one another really hurts them.
It is literally a flavor of the month and has been for a while now , they have so much female talent on the roster but either do not want to use them or feel the need to cut them off at the knees and never see them again untill it is their turn on the wheel again.
I mean not even a month ago were Layla and Kaitlyn battling for the divas title...now nothing and there will probably be some weird transition to where EVE suddenly shows back up and just randomly begins a feud with AJ...but yet other women that have been established as top tier in the division are nowhere to be seen because it just aint there turn.
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Dec 9, 2012 0:53:58 GMT -5
Save_Us.Bruno
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 2:42:56 GMT -5
WWE guy: "Okay lets see what they thought of that."
Focus 1: "It sucked"
Focus 2: "sucked"
Focus 3: "sucked"
Focus infinity: "Blew"
WWE guy: "Crap"
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Dec 9, 2012 5:11:51 GMT -5
I’m quite frankly astonished that Hunter and Steph have three daughters yet they are so blasé about providing positive female role models on a television show that they control. Surely they are aware of Twilight and The Hunger Games – and how females are willing to part with their cash in great amounts? That's just the tip of the iceberg in that venue, too. Buffy, Tomb Raider, Wonder Woman, Resident Evil (both the movies and the vast amounts of female protags in the videogames), Bionic Woman, the list goes on. Not to mention men are just as willing to shell out cash to see a hot woman kick ass. To say they're blowing it with a demographic or two is an understatement.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 8:13:19 GMT -5
This thread is the kind of thread gamers who are being called sexist can hold up and say "See? We're not so bad! Look at those guys!" I don't want to watch the WNBA. SEXISM!
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 9, 2012 8:32:52 GMT -5
See every time this thread comes up, I always say that WWE should just cut their losses, get rid of the Divas division and keep the women as valets and managers.
But then I remember that it was only five years ago that the Knockouts division was so compelling that at Lockdown, they had two women's matches, and I watched both without going for a piss break. And I gave a shit about their outcomes.
I wasn't the only one either. For a while the Knockouts segments were so highly rated that TNA were considering giving them their own show.
So it is possible to do a women's division right in this day and age. WWE just has no f***ing clue how to do it.
Or much more likely, they do know how and simply refuse.
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Post by Viking Snad on Dec 9, 2012 9:48:47 GMT -5
4 pages and not one (that I noticed, anyway) mention of the absolute crime WWE is committing by having Sara Del Ray training women, but keeping her off TV? Don't get me wrong, having her work with the women in developmental is a gigantic leap in the correct direction, but clearly she needs to be having matches on TV.
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Post by willywonka666 on Dec 9, 2012 10:30:23 GMT -5
The Trish/Mickie saga is my fave angle in wrestling ever
I'm not saying repeat it, but that was the women's division at its best
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,917
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 9, 2012 10:39:37 GMT -5
WWE actually has a good roster of talented women right now, but they are booked miserably. They get hardly any time on television and when they do their matches are too short, they do not engage in any real feuds or storylines, and they are being defined more by their looks than what they do in the ring. And frankly, that stupid looking title belt doesn't do them any favors either-it looks like a piece of barbie doll jewelry, not a wrestling title. For my own part, I think WWE should try to get a short return from Trish or Lita; even though both have largely left their wrestling days behind them, if they came in for a short feud with one of the current divas and put them over it would help elevate the division a bit and give them some legitimacy to the audience-lets face it, Trish and Lita are THE divas, so any of the current one's that get put over them are automatically made.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 11:04:48 GMT -5
For my own part, I think WWE should try to get a short return from Trish or Lita; even though both have largely left their wrestling days behind them, if they came in for a short feud with one of the current divas and put them over it would help elevate the division a bit and give them some legitimacy to the audience-lets face it, Trish and Lita are THE divas, so any of the current one's that get put over them are automatically made. I have serious doubts as to whether Lita and Trish mean anything to the majority of WWE's current audience. Especially Trish, who WWE really should consider not using again for a very, very long time. It's embarrassing when she returns and most of the audience either sits in silence or asks the person in the next seat who she is while the announcers scream about "the legendary Trish Stratus!"
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 9, 2012 11:19:48 GMT -5
The problem with these comparisons to stuff like Hunger Games is that Katniss is the main reason anyone would go see that movie, whereas there's basically zero chance that anyone will seriously lay down money to see a female WWE performer.
My idea is a more radical one: Get rid of women's wrestling. Maybe have a couple of women that are managers/valets but for the most part these women are a waste of space and add zero to the product. It's clear that WWE has no idea how to book women's wrestling, or if something does get over (Jumping Bomb Angels) it causes turmoil and is quickly buried because it upstages the men. It's either that or you have the current division that sucks. And the answer isn't to give the matches more time...the matches suck bad enough as it is. Who would want to see more?
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RedDevil
Don Corleone
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 1,692
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Post by RedDevil on Dec 9, 2012 11:34:07 GMT -5
As others have said, it cannot be beyond them to run the division like any other division - characters, stories and screen-time. It can work wonders.
I know they were either loved or despised, but some of the Laycool stuff not that long ago is a small indicator that things can be accomplished with a bit of effort - Layla in particular really grew in some of those segments and showed her personality as a heel. But it isn't going to happen without some effort from creative.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 12:12:40 GMT -5
As others have said, it cannot be beyond them to run the division like any other division - characters, stories and screen-time. It can work wonders. I know they were either loved or despised, but some of the Laycool stuff not that long ago is a small indicator that things can be accomplished with a bit of effort - Layla in particular really grew in some of those segments and showed her personality as a heel. But it isn't going to happen without some effort from creative. I doubt you'll get that effort again. McCool failed to get over, and you'd think that Laycool would have set Layla for a long time but nope. She left, and when she came back, either people didn't care or they forgot that little period of about 18 months or so where she was 1/2 of an act that got a push many male wrestlers on the roster only dream of having.
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PKO
King Koopa
Posts: 12,604
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Post by PKO on Dec 9, 2012 12:32:01 GMT -5
This Russian chick on NXT. I hear she has about as much talent as Rosa Mendes. Somebody who is so bad in the ring that she actually rivals Rosa Mendes in ring skills(or lack thereof). Well, damn. To be fair, the match people speak of was literally her first match ever at a house show. It's not like Rosa who's still awful after being signed to the company for six years. Holding focus groups isn't a stupid idea. Hopefully they'll get some of the seemingly obvious advice that has been offered here and pay attention.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 12:41:15 GMT -5
I really skeptical about how sincere WWE is here after that article on WWE.com a week or two ago where they basically acknowledged what people have been saying about the Divas, only to dismiss it and explain why everything is just fine.
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percymania
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Percymania will live forever! Oh yeah!
Posts: 17,296
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Post by percymania on Dec 9, 2012 12:49:29 GMT -5
Step 1. Hire divas with wrestling ability Step 2. Allow them to have wrestling matches
I know this sounds absurd.
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,656
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Post by thecrusherwi on Dec 9, 2012 12:59:47 GMT -5
I think the problem is they have never had a Women's or Divas full time "division" ever during their PG days (outside of a few Survivor Series matches where 6 new women would show up with no fanfare, fight the match, then vanish as soon as the match was over).
In the Rock 'N Wrestling, it was always the Women's champ and one or two other challengers. In the New Generation, it was Alundra Blayze against ONE challenger. As soon as she beat them, they would disappear and a new one would feud with her.
They really didn't build a division until they started having a ton of T & A, bra and panties matches, bikini contests, and swimming pool matches. Other than Lita vs. Trish or the standard divas title feud (which again is only two people) the rest of the division usually spent most of their time either taking their clothes off and making out with other women (Torrie, Stacy, Candice, Christy Hemme, etc.), managing male wrestlers (Molly Holly, Ivory, Melina, Tori), or disappearing and doing nothing of note for months at a time (too many examples, most noteably Jacqueline).
I think without the T&A stuff or managing male wrestlers, they really have never had any interest at any point in their history of focusing more on 2-4 women at once. I'm not sure that will ever change, regardless of how many focus groups they do.
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