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Post by doinkmark on Dec 22, 2012 1:48:28 GMT -5
Martha needs to let it go. She might want Owen to have nothing to do with wrestling, but the fact is WWE owns a big part of Owen's career and can do as they like with it. As long as she gets whatever she was promised in the settlement, she should let WWE do as they like. No future amount of money is going to bring Owen back and nothing WWE does or doesn't do with Owen's likeness at this point is going to take away the pain she feels from the loss.
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JCBaggee
Hank Scorpio
Writer, streamer. I used to write for CBR but then they fired everyone who cared about their writers
Posts: 6,781
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Post by JCBaggee on Dec 22, 2012 5:27:37 GMT -5
i like the idea of having bret put the blue blazer in the hall of fame In his book, Bret Hart said that after Owen died, Bret ended up getting sent a package which contained Owen's bloody Blue Blazer outfit that he died in. So I doubt Bret would want anything to do with that gimmick. Holy crap, really? I have got to get around to reading that book. 'Hitman', right? It's been gathering dust on my shelf for years.
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Post by KobashiChop on Dec 22, 2012 5:51:58 GMT -5
I really dont like the suggestion of "let it go" from some people. She lost her husband purely through the negligence of that very company. She has every right to be as stubborn as she will.
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Lardlad
El Dandy
Live reaction to @WWE #WWENetwork
Posts: 8,242
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Post by Lardlad on Dec 22, 2012 6:24:34 GMT -5
Why don't they induct him into the Hall of Fame with Koko B Ware as part of the High Energy tag team? That way Owen finally gets in, and Koko is a two-time WWE Hall of Fame inductee which will just add more fuel to the fire for those who seem to like to bring his name up every time a "Should _____ be inducted?" question comes up. Seriously though, I'd love to see Owen get inducted, a 3-disc DVD produced, etc., but at the end of the day I still feel awful for Martha, and cannot begin to wrap my head around the people who want her to "get over it." 5 years, 10 years, whatever... she lost her husband, a man she loved more than anything in this world. If you ever read her book, you will not be surprised that she hasn't been able to just "get over it" yet. And for what it's worth, I remember Oje had a public Facebook profile at one point and he was friends with a few of his Hart cousins, which would seem to indicate the kids haven't cut all ties with the entire family.
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Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Dec 22, 2012 7:35:05 GMT -5
If they asked other Hart family members, and they said yes, she'd have no standing to complain.
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keezy
Dennis Stamp
full time slacker
Posts: 4,621
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Post by keezy on Dec 22, 2012 9:32:23 GMT -5
I was surprised Ryback mentioned him at the Slammies, Bret himself wore a shirt with Owen on it and mentioned him on air and it upset Martha.
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Post by Throwback on Dec 22, 2012 9:39:45 GMT -5
she's cut the Harts out of her and the kids' lives. Mind you, Oje and Athena are old enough now not to follow Martha's lead anymore, but I suspect they're not nearly as close to their uncle Bret as, say, Natalya might be (closest comparison I can give.) I know this is going to make me seem creepy. But Athena and Oje have a bunch of the Harts on their facebook pages as well as Dynamite's kids.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Dec 22, 2012 9:45:17 GMT -5
At this point, just leave her alone and honor her wishes. At the end of the day, she lost her husband and the father of her children due in part to WWE's negligence. Use him in DVDs. Mention him from time to time. But if she says she doesn't want him in the Hall of Fame, leave it alone. This
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 22, 2012 9:49:28 GMT -5
If they asked other Hart family members, and they said yes, she'd have no standing to complain. Marital vows trump blood ties when it comes to making decisions on behalf of a significant other I hate Martha for christs sake it's been over 10 years let it go What exactly is the statute of limitations for not wanting to allow a negligent company to make money off your dead husband, forcing your kids to grow up fatherless? The very same company that forced the stunt that caused his death?
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 22, 2012 14:47:34 GMT -5
If they asked other Hart family members, and they said yes, she'd have no standing to complain. Marital vows trump blood ties when it comes to making decisions on behalf of a significant other I hate Martha for christs sake it's been over 10 years let it go What exactly is the statute of limitations for not wanting to allow a negligent company to make money off your dead husband, forcing your kids to grow up fatherless? The very same company that forced the stunt that caused his death? WWE wasn't negligent in Owen's death, unless you consider the idea of the stunt negligent. (And we know Vince himself often tests these things first). It was the harness company that was found negligent; their faulty equipment. And that's the thing. WWE didn't force Owen's kids to grow up fatherless. He was a willing performer in an industry that had options. Had he blatantly refused, at worst, he'd have been released or buried, and would have had the option to go to WCW with a much cushier contract. This was 1999, remember, not 1997. WWF didn't need Owen. That said, I'm not saying Martha doesn't have the right to hold onto grief. But I feel like she got a measure of justice from the settlement. And that she doesn't realize that by letting Owen be inducted into the Hall of Fame, it allows his peers, friends and fans to honor a man and his life, who been held captive in a time capsule for 13 years. And her kids -- their future would be even better, because as owner of his estate, she and they would receive royalties forever. Instead of just blowing their money on another civil suit against WWE out of some longstanding grudge that has already been resolved.
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Post by avenger on Dec 22, 2012 16:25:28 GMT -5
Marital vows trump blood ties when it comes to making decisions on behalf of a significant other What exactly is the statute of limitations for not wanting to allow a negligent company to make money off your dead husband, forcing your kids to grow up fatherless? The very same company that forced the stunt that caused his death? WWE wasn't negligent in Owen's death, unless you consider the idea of the stunt negligent. (And we know Vince himself often tests these things first). It was the harness company that was found negligent; their faulty equipment. And that's the thing. WWE didn't force Owen's kids to grow up fatherless. He was a willing performer in an industry that had options. Had he blatantly refused, at worst, he'd have been released or buried, and would have had the option to go to WCW with a much cushier contract. This was 1999, remember, not 1997. WWF didn't need Owen. That said, I'm not saying Martha doesn't have the right to hold onto grief. But I feel like she got a measure of justice from the settlement. And that she doesn't realize that by letting Owen be inducted into the Hall of Fame, it allows his peers, friends and fans to honor a man and his life, who been held captive in a time capsule for 13 years. And her kids -- their future would be even better, because as owner of his estate, she and they would receive royalties forever. Instead of just blowing their money on another civil suit against WWE out of some longstanding grudge that has already been resolved. Unlike some of the more shorter comments here about how Martha should "let it go", which could be seen as rash, and off the cuff, you've actually sat down and put a lot of thought into that, which is a shame, because you always come across as an intelligent man. Absolutely brutal in it's heartlessness. Owen Hart was working for the WWE. The one thing you would hope of any company is that their staff are still alive at the end of their working day. While the harness company's equipment may have been to blame, they were employed the WWF to do a job. Owen Hart died working for Vince through no fault of his own. If you cannot understand why his wife, the mother of his children, the legal owner of his estate, does not want to allow the WWE to use his name for their hall of fame, bearing in mind that they proft from it in may ways - sell tickets for the event, sell the show to TV (and get a percentage of the commercial revenue), add it as an extra for a DVD - then you are a cold hearted individual.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Dec 22, 2012 17:12:36 GMT -5
What Hall of Fame? Isn't that an issue. This isn't a Rock and Roll HOF or the Baseball Hall of Fame, where fans can visit and learn the history of the industry. This is an event, that happens to occur during Vince's biggest money maker of the year. Until the thing becomes legit, or as legit as a pro wrestling HOF can be, and stops being in name only, I don't think Martha should even listen to anything the WWE has to say.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 22, 2012 17:20:40 GMT -5
Yeah, if I'm working for a construction company and a faulty I beam falls on me, my family isn't going to go after the manufacturer, they're going to go after the company that I worked for, for using faulty I beams.
You can't say WWE isn't at fault, because they were the ones who decided on the quick release harness. They were the ones who decided on the stunt. And they were the ones who ensured to Owen that everything would be okay.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 22, 2012 17:46:51 GMT -5
WWE wasn't negligent in Owen's death, unless you consider the idea of the stunt negligent. (And we know Vince himself often tests these things first). It was the harness company that was found negligent; their faulty equipment. And that's the thing. WWE didn't force Owen's kids to grow up fatherless. He was a willing performer in an industry that had options. Had he blatantly refused, at worst, he'd have been released or buried, and would have had the option to go to WCW with a much cushier contract. This was 1999, remember, not 1997. WWF didn't need Owen. That said, I'm not saying Martha doesn't have the right to hold onto grief. But I feel like she got a measure of justice from the settlement. And that she doesn't realize that by letting Owen be inducted into the Hall of Fame, it allows his peers, friends and fans to honor a man and his life, who been held captive in a time capsule for 13 years. And her kids -- their future would be even better, because as owner of his estate, she and they would receive royalties forever. Instead of just blowing their money on another civil suit against WWE out of some longstanding grudge that has already been resolved. Unlike some of the more shorter comments here about how Martha should "let it go", which could be seen as rash, and off the cuff, you've actually sat down and put a lot of thought into that, which is a shame, because you always come across as an intelligent man. Absolutely brutal in it's heartlessness. Owen Hart was working for the WWE. The one thing you would hope of any company is that their staff are still alive at the end of their working day. While the harness company's equipment may have been to blame, they were employed the WWF to do a job. Owen Hart died working for Vince through no fault of his own. If you cannot understand why his wife, the mother of his children, the legal owner of his estate, does not want to allow the WWE to use his name for their hall of fame, bearing in mind that they proft from it in may ways - sell tickets for the event, sell the show to TV (and get a percentage of the commercial revenue), add it as an extra for a DVD - then you are a cold hearted individual. I just find it strange that she seems to be consistently out for money and restitution, when she's already gotten it. And I guess my problem stems from a selfish place; a place that would love to see a man who was a wrestler, from one of wrestling's most prominent families, honored and celebrated by the fans who love him, and the peers who had nothing to do with the accident. I don't think WWE should see a dime from it, however. But I truly wish Martha would broker a deal where either all the proceeds go to a charity in Owen's name, or a trust fund for her kids.
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Post by avenger on Dec 22, 2012 17:59:56 GMT -5
Unlike some of the more shorter comments here about how Martha should "let it go", which could be seen as rash, and off the cuff, you've actually sat down and put a lot of thought into that, which is a shame, because you always come across as an intelligent man. Absolutely brutal in it's heartlessness. Owen Hart was working for the WWE. The one thing you would hope of any company is that their staff are still alive at the end of their working day. While the harness company's equipment may have been to blame, they were employed the WWF to do a job. Owen Hart died working for Vince through no fault of his own. If you cannot understand why his wife, the mother of his children, the legal owner of his estate, does not want to allow the WWE to use his name for their hall of fame, bearing in mind that they proft from it in may ways - sell tickets for the event, sell the show to TV (and get a percentage of the commercial revenue), add it as an extra for a DVD - then you are a cold hearted individual. I just find it strange that she seems to be consistently out for money and restitution, when she's already gotten it. And I guess my problem stems from a selfish place; a place that would love to see a man who was a wrestler, from one of wrestling's most prominent families, honored and celebrated by the fans who love him, and the peers who had nothing to do with the accident. I don't think WWE should see a dime from it, however. But I truly wish Martha would broker a deal where either all the proceeds go to a charity in Owen's name, or a trust fund for her kids. In what way is she out for money? She has a settlement over the cause of his death. The only other ways in which she can make money out of this are: a) Allowing the WWE to induct him into the hall of fame, in exchange for a percentage of money received from the event. b) Allowing footage of him to be used in DVDs and his likeness to be used in other merchandise. And she's flat out refusing requests - she's not even negotiating. The lawsuit is because the WWE have used his likeness since his death in a way that contravenes previous agreements, and the fact that they haven't paid Owen Hart's estate for those uses (which is beyond coldhearted if true). It's not that she's against the use of Owen's image (as someone mentioned above, she allowed it toi be used in one of the Legend's of Wrestling games), she just doesn't want it to be used by the man and company she blames for her husband's death.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 22, 2012 18:48:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I'll never understand this resentment people have for her. Everything that I've read about the situation doesn't show any interest in attaining money for personal use. Hell, she even included Stu and Helen in the wrongful death lawsuit along with her children. Any animosity that she may have comes from WWE's own violations that they had with the original wrongful death settlement. The same thing applies to Diana's remarks that turned out to be false and slanderous.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 23, 2012 1:28:48 GMT -5
WWE wasn't negligent in Owen's death, unless you consider the idea of the stunt negligent. (And we know Vince himself often tests these things first). It was the harness company that was found negligent; their faulty equipment. And that's the thing. WWE didn't force Owen's kids to grow up fatherless. He was a willing performer in an industry that had options. Had he blatantly refused, at worst, he'd have been released or buried, and would have had the option to go to WCW with a much cushier contract. This was 1999, remember, not 1997. WWF didn't need Owen. That said, I'm not saying Martha doesn't have the right to hold onto grief. But I feel like she got a measure of justice from the settlement. And that she doesn't realize that by letting Owen be inducted into the Hall of Fame, it allows his peers, friends and fans to honor a man and his life, who been held captive in a time capsule for 13 years. And her kids -- their future would be even better, because as owner of his estate, she and they would receive royalties forever. Instead of just blowing their money on another civil suit against WWE out of some longstanding grudge that has already been resolved. Owen was an adult, yes, and adults often have to do things they don't like for the sake of feeding their family. WWE was a sure paycheck, WCW wasn't. He gets jobbed and released and who knows what he could do in WCW or how much they'd be willing to pay him, especially if they had the upper hand in negotiations due to the fact that WWE doesn't want him anymore. That's part of life, you'll do things you don't like for the sake of providing for your family. The company isn't absolved of blame for putting him in the situation where he might have to choose between job and a stunt. It was their show, they hired the company, they devised the gimmick, and it doesn't matter if Vince himself did it 50 times (although to be fair, I've never heard Vince does all the stunts in the company before you said it right now), it matters that in that one set up on that one night, there was an accident and he died from it. As far as honoring Owen goes, I really don't like that argument, to be honest. What exactly is stopping people from doing it now? Why do they have to wait for a WWE promotional event (Even though the HOF is an honor for the wrestlers, it's still part of the mania promotion that they use to help push the event)? How many people who want to honor his memory have actually donated to the foundation in his name? Since all she's opposed to is WWE, the company he died working for, from doing it, has anyone stepped up outside of the WWE to put on an event? What would that even entail? If it was really just about honoring him, people wouldn't be trashing his widow or trying to find ways to circumvent what she wants to get him in the WWE HOF. I don't think honoring him or the future well-being of his kids has much at all to do with it for a lot of people, I think it's more about people wanting DVD releases and video game likenesses and such. And hey, DVD releases would be cool as hell, but if she wants to be firm in standing up against WWE from making money off him or using him in promotion, that's her right. I don't think my desires as a fan trump the desires of the widow.
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Post by donbot on Jan 1, 2013 16:53:03 GMT -5
Why do any of you guys want WWE to produce an Owen Hart DVD to honor him? You can find his matches and interviews on youtube and re-releases of PPVs he was on. Isn't that enough?
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Post by George. on Jan 1, 2013 16:57:39 GMT -5
WWE can just give all the proceeds of anything Owen Hart related to Martha and the rest of the Hart family. Problem solved.
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Lardlad
El Dandy
Live reaction to @WWE #WWENetwork
Posts: 8,242
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Post by Lardlad on Jan 2, 2013 11:01:27 GMT -5
What Hall of Fame? Isn't that an issue. This isn't a Rock and Roll HOF or the Baseball Hall of Fame, where fans can visit and learn the history of the industry. This is an event, that happens to occur during Vince's biggest money maker of the year. Until the thing becomes legit, or as legit as a pro wrestling HOF can be, and stops being in name only, I don't think Martha should even listen to anything the WWE has to say. I really don't think a physical building in New York or Connecticut would change the WWE Hall of Fame being more legit or not though. Like I don't see how me paying to go into a WWE Hall of Fame so I could see pictures of Owen, his blue blazer mask, and say, the cast he wore on his arm and his Hart Foundation jacket would make me take it any more or less seriously than I already do.
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