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Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Jan 17, 2013 21:58:37 GMT -5
I agree with the idea that we never really see (or at least I haven't seen it myself) all this hate for Cena when he beats someone like Big Show. There's no talk of "Super Cena" or "did he really NEED that win" or anything like that. I never see any of that until it's Ziggles or Punk doing the job. Then, it's everywhere.
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Jan 17, 2013 22:05:01 GMT -5
People just have different tastes. No biggie. I personally think Cena's the best wrestler on the planet currently. But some don't. It's fine. Only thing I have a problem with is the "You can't wrestle" stuff really. Yeah, and when I see a post like this I don't feel the need to argue or rant or anything; I'm happy to respond in kind and acknowledge that we have different tastes. The article, on the other hand, came across like "Cena-haters are hypocrites, and they're wrong to hate him, and they don't understand how wrestling works," etc, and when I read something like that I instinctively want to say "No I'm not a hypocrite, I'm not wrong..." etc.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,295
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 17, 2013 22:14:41 GMT -5
I agree with the idea that we never really see (or at least I haven't seen it myself) all this hate for Cena when he beats someone like Big Show. There's no talk of "Super Cena" or "did he really NEED that win" or anything like that. I never see any of that until it's Ziggles or Punk doing the job. Then, it's everywhere. Him beating Big Show meant Johnny Ace would be off tv, so I could see why that upset no-one.
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Post by cahuette on Jan 17, 2013 22:15:34 GMT -5
I agree with the idea that we never really see (or at least I haven't seen it myself) all this hate for Cena when he beats someone like Big Show. There's no talk of "Super Cena" or "did he really NEED that win" or anything like that. I never see any of that until it's Ziggles or Punk doing the job. Then, it's everywhere. I seem to remember a lot, A LOT of people complaining about Cena vs Show, because everyone knew he was going to win "OH MA GAD HE CAN'T POSSIBLY LIFT THIS MONSTER", yes nobody cared that Show lost, they still were pissed because everyone knew these were not odds to overcome, this was something he did times and times again. Also, Miz against Cena, a lot of people were starting to turn on Miz, yet after then 20 minutes torture match, a lot of people were pissed because it was just dumb and he didn't need to win like that.
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Post by Starshine on Jan 17, 2013 22:19:37 GMT -5
I agree with the idea that we never really see (or at least I haven't seen it myself) all this hate for Cena when he beats someone like Big Show. There's no talk of "Super Cena" or "did he really NEED that win" or anything like that. I never see any of that until it's Ziggles or Punk doing the job. Then, it's everywhere. No. Go back to May or June 2009 where Cena, sporting injured ribs, beat Show with one move after being beaten down for about 15 minutes. It was complete bull.
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Post by BiloxiParish on Jan 17, 2013 23:58:31 GMT -5
I agree with the idea that we never really see (or at least I haven't seen it myself) all this hate for Cena when he beats someone like Big Show. There's no talk of "Super Cena" or "did he really NEED that win" or anything like that. I never see any of that until it's Ziggles or Punk doing the job. Then, it's everywhere. No. Go back to May or June 2009 where Cena, sporting injured ribs, beat Show with one move after being beaten down for about 15 minutes. It was complete bull. This happens time and time again.. Take Raw on Monday as an example Ziggler hit everything on him including a top rope DDT and he had the assistance of outside interference.. I wanted Ziggler to just beat Cena once on RAW. I thought for a minute he would. I was wrong. Time and time again we see Cena overcome these ridiculous odds. I am just tired of it. I am tired of Cena, tired of the character, tired of the moves, tired of his main events, tired of his entrance. I am worn out. It's almost like seeing Hogan on my screen now. John Cena is now U2 or Nickelback in my eyes..
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 18, 2013 0:27:10 GMT -5
The comparison to Superman last page isn't entirely applicable. For one, Superman does have more weaknesses than just kryptonite. Two, aside from encountering opponents that are on his level in some way frequently enough to not just win everything ever with ease, most of his stories take a different approach. He's preventing some kind of disaster or faced with something he can't punch his way through. Most of the people who say Superman doesn't have any conflicts or difficulties either hasn't read many comics, or hasn't read many good ones.
Obviously, this is wrestling and so storylines have to involve punching, but the same thing applies. A good writer can create a story that's compelling, or give him a challenge to overcome. The problem comes from him being on top for so long and the need in wrestling to build up threats that there isn't an endless supply.
I firmly believe that he should have taken time off after beating Lesnar. It's continuing the comparison to a very corny degree, but just like Superman 'died' defeating Doomsday, Cena should have been so torn apart in his victory that he had to take time off. This is where the building up could have happened, and when he came back, it would have been easy to have him be less dominant and protected. He also could have come back retooled and bearable. Instead, he practically no-sold the beating of a lifetime and acted like the biggest threat ever was nothing.
Not Cena's fault, though. Creative's, entirely.
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OzzyMandez
Mephisto
Layla's Legion Representin'
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Post by OzzyMandez on Jan 18, 2013 11:18:56 GMT -5
I've said it before and I'll say it again- I think if Cena's character was a lot more likeable and his material was a LOT better, this "Super-Cena" stuff wouldn't exist because people would want to see him win. He's good in-ring, his character just gives no reason for me to invest interest in him, because I know he's going to be unfazed if he loses.
You can't challenge a man who doesn't care.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Jan 18, 2013 11:19:44 GMT -5
I agree with the idea that we never really see (or at least I haven't seen it myself) all this hate for Cena when he beats someone like Big Show. There's no talk of "Super Cena" or "did he really NEED that win" or anything like that. I never see any of that until it's Ziggles or Punk doing the job. Then, it's everywhere. Interesting variation, so I think it still counts. Open it up - AHHHHHHHHHH!!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 11:34:05 GMT -5
I agree with the idea that we never really see (or at least I haven't seen it myself) all this hate for Cena when he beats someone like Big Show. There's no talk of "Super Cena" or "did he really NEED that win" or anything like that. I never see any of that until it's Ziggles or Punk doing the job. Then, it's everywhere. I'm not so sure about that, I had a bit of a moan that he beat Show via heel-like "every face runs in and stops Show from victory" antics, and I remember others too. It's not Cena that's the problem, it's the writing and his booking. Like I said on page 1, make him look like he may be in danger of losing (Nexus storyline/Lesnar match at Extreme Rules) and more people will want to see him overcome the odds. It's not a case of reasonless hate, I don't hate Cena, but I despise his presence in all on screen storylines lately because a) he's not been off my screen for years which breeds boredom (see my point re: Rey Mysterio in the first post for a comparison) b) even after losing to The Rock, having to be subservient to Wade Barrett, being beaten to a pulp by Lesnar, his character does not evolve. It never changes. It reverts back to the same character which annoyed me 6/7 years ago when fans booed him beating Kurt Angle weekly. He's great in the ring, he's good on the microphone, but his character direction is appalling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 11:38:23 GMT -5
Oh God, I hope the guy who commented with "you're obviously like nine-years-old or something" is being satirical.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jan 18, 2013 11:38:51 GMT -5
I think it speaks to WWE's problem with booking its faces. they always look unbeatable so the heel becomes the underdog by default. people love to cheer for the underdog, so in what sane world do you want the heel to be the underdog? I mean, right now the 2 biggest angles are the Rock/Punk and Cena/Ziggler feud. in both cases the heel is the underdog. hell, because it's Triple H, Brock Freaking Lesnar came off as the underdog. the whole idea is bass-ackwards.
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Jan 18, 2013 12:04:22 GMT -5
The comparison to Superman last page isn't entirely applicable... Fair points, and I know that things aren't always easy for Supes. I admit I haven't read a lot of Superman comics, but I've got basic knowledge of the DCU, so I know that there are guys who can beat him. However, I was responding to an argument that said "Oh, these guys are better in these areas than John Cena, so doesn't that make him the underdog?" My point was "Well, other DCU superheroes are better in certain areas than Superman, but if Superman were to fight any one of those guys, he would not be the underdog." Unlike Superman, there isn't anybody on the WWE roster aside from Undertaker (and I guess Rocky, if he counts) who's proven capable of beating Cena straight up. (Punk almost became one of those guys, but turned out not to be because he won one match against Cena after a distraction, won the next match because of a bad ref call in his favour, etc.) As for this being creative's fault, on that point I disagree. I find it a lot easier to believe that Cena uses his pull to make sure he goes over and that when he does lose it's not clean, than to believe he honestly couldn't care less if creative told him to make a guy, to do a clean job to somebody who could use it to finally break into the main event. (Cody Rhodes, say.)
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
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Posts: 8,748
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on Jan 18, 2013 13:10:44 GMT -5
Actually.....Undertaker is the perfect foil to Cena in the Superman Analogy.
He's got all Cena's "Powers", plus another pair....Magic and Magic Lightning.
Undertaker is the Captain Marvel to Cena's Superman.
(Which, as an aside, is Ass-Backwards as I've always asserted that Cena is some sort of IRL Captain Marvel. This is based solely on the fact that he seems like an 8-year old controlling an adult's body alá Billy Batson.....
Yes, that would make The Rock Black Adam
Yes this theory was based on the LONG reported rumor that The Rock was to be playing the part in a now likely cancelled film version)
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Shazam
Mephisto
And then there's this ***hole...
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Post by Shazam on Jan 18, 2013 15:38:10 GMT -5
Guess I'm responding after the Captain Marvel comparison... seems like good timing.
Here's the thing, at the end of the day, wrestling aside, there has never been a person in the history of wrestling who has done more good will with their celebrity than John Cena. His work with Make A Wish pretty much writes him a free pass for anything and everything until the end of time, and guarantees I want him to remain in the main event forever.
Yeah, I wish creative would do better with his character, but you can't turn him heel. Ever. His charity work wouldn't be the same, and frankly, that's more important. They've turned him smark heel against certain opponents, like RVD at ONSII and CM Punk, and I thought those were rather brilliant faux-turns.
But if Cena keeps working with dying children to make the world a better place, he can win 50 more world titles with the same stale character, and I'll cheer every night.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 18, 2013 15:46:51 GMT -5
I agree with the idea that we never really see (or at least I haven't seen it myself) all this hate for Cena when he beats someone like Big Show. There's no talk of "Super Cena" or "did he really NEED that win" or anything like that. I never see any of that until it's Ziggles or Punk doing the job. Then, it's everywhere. Big Show's past his prime, and is also established enough that he'll never lose credibility. A guy like Ziggler is a new star ready to break out, and he needs to be protected. What they're doing with Ziggler now is the equivalent of having Bret Hart job to Hulk Hogan every week before his run in the main-event. The WWF didn't do that back then, because at that time they actually knew how to nurture and build the potential top stars. Now they just hitch their wagon to one or two people and just ride it until the wheels fall off.
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Jan 18, 2013 15:47:56 GMT -5
I'll be honest. I think Cena is a hell of a wrestler. The problem is I think he's booked like crap. Another thing is people are upset with how the WWE is now and how it's not the attitude era. Because people are mad at WWE with the current era, they are going to be mad at the man on the cover, that man being Cena.
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Bub (BLM)
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advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 18, 2013 15:52:32 GMT -5
I'll be honest. I think Cena is a hell of a wrestler. The problem is I think he's booked like crap. Another thing is people are upset with how the WWE is now and how it's not the attitude era. Because people are mad at WWE with the current era, they are going to be mad at the man on the cover, that man being Cena. A lot of why people are mad at WWE is because of Cena. He's not just a fall guy for fans who hate the current product. He is why they hate the current product.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
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Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 18, 2013 16:36:10 GMT -5
Guess I'm responding after the Captain Marvel comparison... seems like good timing. Here's the thing, at the end of the day, wrestling aside, there has never been a person in the history of wrestling who has done more good will with their celebrity than John Cena. His work with Make A Wish pretty much writes him a free pass for anything and everything until the end of time, and guarantees I want him to remain in the main event forever. Yeah, I wish creative would do better with his character, but you can't turn him heel. Ever. His charity work wouldn't be the same, and frankly, that's more important. They've turned him smark heel against certain opponents, like RVD at ONSII and CM Punk, and I thought those were rather brilliant faux-turns. But if Cena keeps working with dying children to make the world a better place, he can win 50 more world titles with the same stale character, and I'll cheer every night. Hulk Hogan did lots of charities and was part of the Make-A-Wish foundation and they still turned him heel. Never say never.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 21:01:35 GMT -5
Guess I'm responding after the Captain Marvel comparison... seems like good timing. Here's the thing, at the end of the day, wrestling aside, there has never been a person in the history of wrestling who has done more good will with their celebrity than John Cena. His work with Make A Wish pretty much writes him a free pass for anything and everything until the end of time, and guarantees I want him to remain in the main event forever. Yeah, I wish creative would do better with his character, but you can't turn him heel. Ever. His charity work wouldn't be the same, and frankly, that's more important. They've turned him smark heel against certain opponents, like RVD at ONSII and CM Punk, and I thought those were rather brilliant faux-turns. But if Cena keeps working with dying children to make the world a better place, he can win 50 more world titles with the same stale character, and I'll cheer every night. Hulk Hogan did lots of charities and was part of the Make-A-Wish foundation and they still turned him heel. Never say never. Precisely why I don't quite understand people saying that Cena can't be turned heel due to lack of merchandise sales/kids hating him. He can actively use the same logic Hogan used back then, "eat your vitamins, pray before bed, but don't do what I do in the ring, 'cause only the Hulkster can!" It's both obnoxious (which is good for most heels) AND saying "please don't act a dick because your favourite wrestler does on TV?" Well, if Cena and other faces weren't utter dicks on TV in general already!
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