|
Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on May 10, 2013 18:07:01 GMT -5
I know it's cool to bag on Jim Cornette and, now, Jim Ross for being "stuck in the past", but I still think old-school style wrestling can still attract and excite an audience today - Cena vs. Punk proves it. Wait, what on earth was remotely "old school" about the Cena vs. Punk matches? They've all been built aound the same "Hey, let's kick out of each other's finishers a lot" formula as just about every other "big match" in wrestling in recent years. One word: storytelling. Another unpopular opinion: anybody who complains about matches where wrestlers kick out of their finishers woluld hate a Stanley Cup game that is tied going into OT.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 11:29:22 GMT -5
On the subject of guys kicking out of finishers, I LOVE WWE matches like that and think they do it perfectly. A few times per year in big time matches featuring the elite stars who kayfabe it SHOULD take a lot to put down.
This clearly isn't an unpopular opinion among the majority of WWE fans since those matches usually always have the live crowds going crazy but it seems to be unpopular among a lot of people who critique matches online.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 11:39:07 GMT -5
Wait, what on earth was remotely "old school" about the Cena vs. Punk matches? They've all been built aound the same "Hey, let's kick out of each other's finishers a lot" formula as just about every other "big match" in wrestling in recent years. One word: storytelling. Another unpopular opinion: anybody who complains about matches where wrestlers kick out of their finishers woluld hate a Stanley Cup game that is tied going into OT. So are you now using "old school" as a synonym for anything good?
|
|
|
Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on May 11, 2013 14:30:43 GMT -5
One word: storytelling. Another unpopular opinion: anybody who complains about matches where wrestlers kick out of their finishers woluld hate a Stanley Cup game that is tied going into OT. So are you now using "old school" as a synonym for anything good? Not really, but I can see how it can be interpreted that way. It's been awhile since I watched these examples, but I seem to recall Savage/Steamboat from Wrestlemania 3 and the Flair/Steamboat trilogy having multiple near-falls. Cena and Punk are definitely not Randy Savage (performing his finisher doesn't make it so), Ricky Steamboat or Ric Flair but the Cena/Punk matches, to me, kept me on the edge of my seat like my aforementioned examples did when I was a kid back in the 80's, which is why I called them "old school" (even if they really aren't, I guess).
|
|
Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
Own Nothing, Be Happy
Posts: 6,309
|
Post by Sam Punk on May 11, 2013 14:38:37 GMT -5
On the subject of guys kicking out of finishers, I LOVE WWE matches like that and think they do it perfectly. A few times per year in big time matches featuring the elite stars who kayfabe it SHOULD take a lot to put down. This clearly isn't an unpopular opinion among the majority of WWE fans since those matches usually always have the live crowds going crazy but it seems to be unpopular among a lot of people who critique matches online. As long as it's not overdone. There was one Rock/Austin match where they kicked out of each others finish about a dozen times. It should be done very rarely.
|
|
|
Post by TK The Friendly Robot on May 14, 2013 5:35:58 GMT -5
Alberto Del Rio is entertaining and believable in ring and out and the complete underselling of him online seems more like a meme than a valid opinion.
Anarquia was actually better at being Chavo Guerrero than Chavo Guerrero is. I'd happily swap.
I miss Madison Rayne at the moment more than I miss anyone else, I saw a picture of her earlier and then sadfaced that she probably won't be back anytime soon if at all.
|
|
|
Post by keepinitreal365 on May 15, 2013 19:58:04 GMT -5
Alberto Del Rio is entertaining and believable in ring and out and the complete underselling of him online seems more like a meme than a valid opinion. Anarquia was actually better at being Chavo Guerrero than Chavo Guerrero is. I'd happily swap. I miss Madison Rayne at the moment more than I miss anyone else, I saw a picture of her earlier and then sadfaced that she probably won't be back anytime soon if at all. You know what. I'm learning (very slowly lol) To not let all the del rio hate get to me personally. However his haters are some of the most delusional people. This whole Del Rio isn't over shit and he wouldn't get a reaction without ricardo. I mean are we not counting smackdown for reactions. Not that canned shit either because we all know it sounds like an out of control hair dryer. Last week when Del Rio went on his latin ladder rampage was the crowd cheering for him...yes. Was Ricardo out there...no. The week before that cheers, people clapping and i ALWAYS see Del rio signs. Whether it's an Alberto del rio sign, Viva Del Rio sign or Alberto for prime minister. I liked that one. Smackdown from London 3 weeks ago you mean to tell me that crowd wasn't SOLIDLY behind del rio...really. If it's not sí chants it's Alberto chants or del rio chants. Allot of the time Ricardo doesn't start the chants. A small chant will start and Ricardo will hit the ring apron and they get louder. So how is Del Rio NOT over? I find it sooooo hypocritical how people bitch about how fast del rio was thrust into the title picture yet people want Dean Ambrose to be wwe champion...wtf. Oh i get it. Ambrose is an "indy darling" so he gets a pass. Point is this. Del Rio is over. He's entertaining and is one of the best wrestlers in the world. Anybody who hasn't seen him as dos caras jr. Has NO idea how awesome he really is.
|
|
|
Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on May 18, 2013 15:51:37 GMT -5
I have no problem with the use of the term "sports entertainment". Professional wrestling, by its very nature, IS sports entertainment.
|
|
|
Post by Crusty Ruffles on May 18, 2013 17:33:03 GMT -5
If Davey Richards and Kyle O Reilly were to retire tomorrow, I would be thrilled. I can't stand to watch either in the ring.
|
|
|
Post by TK The Friendly Robot on May 19, 2013 3:12:41 GMT -5
I have no problem with the use of the term "sports entertainment". Professional wrestling, by its very nature, IS sports entertainment. I agree with you but I also hold the ideal that if you're using the term sports entertainment then you shouldn't use it to pretend that your product isn't wrestling and you should use it to avoid calling your product wrestling. I find the ballet to be Sports Entertainment also but you don't see some Ballet company calling it that in an attempt to get people to forget that they're watching a ballet in the first place.
|
|
ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
|
Post by ICBM on May 19, 2013 5:25:21 GMT -5
Bret Hart is only half of what he thinks he is. He is great. One of the best ever. But he didn't draw the way Hogan, Flair, Cela, Rock or Austin did. "It was a down time in the business" as a reason why can be defeated ny saying if he was what he says he was, he would have drawn anyway. That said, he wa. Mega over overseas.
Owen Hart would never have been WWF champion. Absent finally finding an attitude era gimmick(they tried three times) he would have never done it. His talent is without question but his persona would not allow it.
MEM was a good angle. TNA viewership went up drastically compared to a yr before and the subsequent yrs after. It was fresh compared to what had been happening. It focused the entire main roster instead of seven to ten feuds that were in a lot of cases, filler. It was not an NWO rip off. Any faction will be compared to the NWO. But go ahead and draw me up comparisons to the NWO that don't also apply to almost every faction in wrestling before and after the NWO. Facts are facts and the fact is MEM worked no matter how cool it was to hate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 19, 2013 6:08:38 GMT -5
Bret Hart is only half of what he thinks he is. He is great. One of the best ever. But he didn't draw the way Hogan, Flair, Cela, Rock or Austin did. "It was a down time in the business" as a reason why can be defeated ny saying if he was what he says he was, he would have drawn anyway. That said, he wa. Mega over overseas. Owen Hart would never have been WWF champion. Absent finally finding an attitude era gimmick(they tried three times) he would have never done it. His talent is without question but his persona would not allow it. MEM was a good angle. TNA viewership went up drastically compared to a yr before and the subsequent yrs after. It was fresh compared to what had been happening. It focused the entire main roster instead of seven to ten feuds that were in a lot of cases, filler. It was not an NWO rip off. Any faction will be compared to the NWO. But go ahead and draw me up comparisons to the NWO that don't also apply to almost every faction in wrestling before and after the NWO. Facts are facts and the fact is MEM worked no matter how cool it was to hate. Did you enjoy the MEM angle personally ICBM? Like, a lot of your praise toward it is about how it worked from a financial perspective but did you like the story and the matches itself?
|
|
ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
|
Post by ICBM on May 19, 2013 20:29:48 GMT -5
Yes. It entertained me. I am and have been a mark for Sting since I was eight(1987). That angle put him in a dynamic he had never been in. He adapted and changed. His work in TNA had been lazy for all of 08. He worked harder and showed range. He did it again after hogan came to TNA.
Angle is a great heel and that stable was perfect for him Nash was the perfect big man threat of the group Booker introduced the legends/global/television title and gave it meaning Steiner as the muscle, was the perfect victim for the returning Joe. The strongest most volatile part of MEM sprayed his shorts over Joe.
The angle worked until they turned Joe. I blame Russo booking on that one. The turn over to Worl Elite was good and if the company wouldn't have entered a holding pattern in advance of hogan's arrival, I believe they could have gotten it over well. They got one helluva rub by going over the remainder of MEM at the end. Angle put em over on the mic as clean as you'd want. AJ came off as a solo main event to more than just the hardcore tan fan/Internet fan in the wake of the angle and became the face of the company for a while. He even stayed champion and got a push after hogan took over(the nature boy AJ wasn't necessary but they killed it and moved him on). All told I give it an A-. The nonsensical joe turn really took away from it. The follow up hurt it worse but that is Dixie Carter's doing by bringing in hogan just then
|
|
DragonMasterP
King Koopa
Wait, I turned 30? How'd that happen?
Posts: 11,989
|
Post by DragonMasterP on May 19, 2013 22:11:33 GMT -5
The reason CM Punk's long WWE title reign carried little prestige despite the length was because John Cena wasn't the one holding it. To put that in a different perspective, Cena is the only guy in WWE who can make being the WWE champion worth something.
|
|