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Post by Orange on Mar 25, 2013 14:04:02 GMT -5
The fact that Orange still went after Pegasus shows that he doesn't know how to play or he had a personal vendetta against Pegasus from earlier in the game. And I don't want to be too mean to you Orange, I really don't Not personal at all since you seem like a good dude, but you played like such a putz. Pegasus called someone Mafia wrong once or twice, and you harped on it for the rest of the game and never let it die. Ignoring that he had called so many other Mafia and Cult players right besides those two. And as a matter of fact, you kept bringing up him being wrong about... Spiked Mohican I think. Well yeah he called him Mafia, but then the next day he said he wasn't and practically begged you guys not to lynch him. Personal vendetta? Of course not, but by pegasus' own admission, his role was very easy to hate. Couple his role's holier than thou position with the fact that he was wrong more than he was right, I didn't believe he had the town's best interest at heart. I know he said he did, but talk is cheap in a mafia game, or so I'm learning. Overall, you only have your gut instinct and your vote - that's all I can use. I feel that for my first game, I did alright, and had Produceman presented a better case than "I'm town, just trust me", I would've cast a vote against Yami. That's not a dig at Produceman, either, by the way. However, I can't look at the game with hindsight. What's done is done, and it just has to be accepted. Next game I'll be that much better.
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Post by Orange on Mar 25, 2013 14:19:53 GMT -5
Important Notes: -SNS came up as innocent in investigations but COULD die in the night phase. He had limits on him to convert which were: He could not convert scum. He could not convert superhero characters. He could not convert Arkham Inmates with superpowers. He could not convert if he was blocked. Ah ha! So that's why the cult didn't convert me! Even when I started to have a sneaking suspicion that BRB could've been converted cult (as I stated in the thread), I didn't think it made much sense that they'd go after one n00b townie and not the other. Now I know why. Really sucks that the Cult Leader comes back as innocent, because if I had just stuck to my guns and got the town on board, we could've gotten the Cult Leader that much sooner! But, like I said, can't use hindsight. Props to everybody that played, because you all played a fantastic game.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Mar 25, 2013 14:29:55 GMT -5
But those last day phases were absolutely maddening to watch. How in god's name could anybody fall for BRB's schtick there at the end? It was the most obvious Cult job I've seen in my Mafia game history. Nobody ever thought "Wow. This is weird. Once all the Cult members start dropping like flies, this guy starts to play harder?" Nobody thought "Why is he saying we shouldn't pay any attention to the Cult team?" I mean seriously. I know he's a new player, but even after Mason clarified that the Cult was just as important as the Mafia, he kept acting like they had no chance to win. So either A.) He doesn't understand the game. B.) He's just ignoring the facts. C.) He's Cult. The fact that Orange still went after Pegasus shows that he doesn't know how to play or he had a personal vendetta against Pegasus from earlier in the game. I'll speak for myself on this matter. I indeed am new to Mafia. I played as I understood it as it went along. While I was in fact Cult, I explained my reasoning multiple times until Mason clarified. So it's a blend of A and C. I'll say my reasoning yet again: Town, Mafia, and Third Parties win when they are the only ones left. However, when Mafia has equal numbers to Town, most games end because they have veto power and the logical conclusion is a death spiral for other Parties since Mafia have Night Kills in addition to veto power. Cults on the other hand do not have Night Kill ability. The Leader converts, but they can only kill through lynches. There is no actual reason why Cult defeats Town when their numbers are equal because neither is more powerful than the other. It's pure fiat that Cult wins by default. That's why I moved us away from Cult more than anything else - no Leader, no Night Kill, no threat besides numbers. So consider my situation: I was blatantly telling everyone how many Cult were left versus how many Mafia might be left. I turned out to be wrong about Mafia numbers, but I believe it was a legitimate concern that there might be two Mafia within five players left. If that was to be believed, my central point was that the Mafia were the bigger threat. Mafia tend to be 20-25% of the total players according to my research, so if that was to be believed, it seemed like there would be two Mafia rather than one left. That said, I think more were onto me Day 9 than you give credit. Peg was fooled but he was the one being lynched, Produce wasn't, and Yami clearly was onto me. The only person I fooled into voting with me was Orange (fellow new player), but even so, I'd make nearly the exact same arguments if I was Town, though I probably wouldn't be gunning for PW so hard since I wouldn't have the insight and assumptions I had as Cult. Outside of all that though, I think you're speaking from a biased standpoint. We were rats in the labyrinth while you were an observer above the labyrinth.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,236
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Mar 25, 2013 14:32:44 GMT -5
I'm still boggled that the cult didn't think to convert me, the most confirmed townie in the game.
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Post by Orange on Mar 25, 2013 14:33:03 GMT -5
Looking back at old Mafia games, it seems like the Mafia always wins. What was the last time that the Town actually won one of these games?
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Post by Triple H buried SnS on Mar 25, 2013 14:34:09 GMT -5
I'm still boggled that the cult didn't think to convert me, the most confirmed townie in the game. Easy, we never knew your character. We were guessing riddler, but we didn't know. If you ended up being a superhuman townie, it would have been a wasted shot. It was 50/50 between you and Wolf on my last night.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Mar 25, 2013 14:35:56 GMT -5
Looking back at old Mafia games, it seems like the Mafia always wins. What was the last time that the Town actually won one of these games? Too many Mafia it seems. I wonder if too many Third Parties doesn't help. I can see what PW was saying about Cult now.
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Post by Triple H buried SnS on Mar 25, 2013 14:37:19 GMT -5
Looking back at old Mafia games, it seems like the Mafia always wins. What was the last time that the Town actually won one of these games? Town won true blood mafia. Go here: officialfan.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=forumgames&thread=427487&post=9346623Will be adding a mafia win for both Star wars and Batman mafia to that list. Honestly, the last 5 games have been close. Just didn't bounce towns way. Looking back at old Mafia games, it seems like the Mafia always wins. What was the last time that the Town actually won one of these games? Too many Mafia it seems. I wonder if too many Third Parties doesn't help. I can see what PW was saying about Cult now. But you can't hand town wins either. Would be just as bad as overpowering the mafia. Barely anyone gives town credit for the phoenix wright mafia game due to the advantage town was given.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Mar 25, 2013 15:00:58 GMT -5
True true. Then again, this game had fewer Mafia than normal, so there is that. Regardless, it was a knock down drag out fight.
I do wonder what might have been if we didn't have drama not once but twice. We lost Doctor first day. Could have changed the whole game. Considering the blunders throughout the game I think it's impressive that Town came so closer.
Of course this was also my first game. Who knows what I'll see in the future?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2013 15:25:04 GMT -5
To Latino Meat
Honestly, what f***ed me over was at the very end of day two, when JoNo made that train comment
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
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Post by Yami Daimao on Mar 25, 2013 16:08:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I changed my name to coincide with Mafia's victory. That, and I generally am a fan of the Red Hood (Jason Todd) character. That said, there were definitely times where I thought Mafia had no chance. I always heard how Mafia win these games most of the time, but I thought this would be one of the few times they didn't. There were only 3 of us out of 24 players, our first kill was blocked, our own roleblocker was lynched the next Day, Knailsic only lasted a day with us, and our effort to keep Zack alive long enough for an early victory failed because Wolf had to go kill him. Nothing was really going our way for the most part. However, I think we recovered from our failures quite nicely. As you can see in our discussion board, you'll find my over-analyzing of every little possibility to be pretty humorous. All that worrying and preparation for nothing. Also, check out when we had a plan for Zack to claim back-up Cop. Once I figured out Peg was the Deputy before his lynch (which I did, I even stated I was pretty sure I knew what it was), I thought how BIG that could have blew up in Zack's face if he wasn't night killed, ha ha! Obviously I twisted some things here and there (nothing too blatant though), but for the most part, all that I've said had some truth behind it. I was telling the truth about the 3 Mafia theory with Knailsic's Judas role being a "mercy" ability for Mafia, despite being the Godfather myself. You can say I was Mafia with a Townie mindset. Jazzman was somewhat right about the rookie Mafia theory. I didn't really purposely manipulate Orange the entire game. I just noticed that we did agree on a lot of things, and also that he trusted me, and so when it came down to the last 2 or 3 Days, THAT'S when I decided to take advantage. It truly is astonishing how much SNS was able to get even with all of those limitations. In any other case, the Cult's impact would have gotten over like a fart in the wind. He got really lucky. Speaking of luck, Pegasus was practically unlynchable. Dude managed to talk his way out lynches on more than one occasion, even when it looked like it was a sure thing. He would have been lynched sooner than he did had Wolf not killed Zack, thus proving him right. Zack's death aside (the luck I speak of), that takes skill. SNS stopped being a problem once Spartan died, but Pegasus was a thorn on our side since he first cast suspicion on me. He was my rival. Notorious, I did bring up BRB trying to shift the focus away from Cult to the Mafia, twice actually. It's what I meant when I say he was downplaying the Cult. He didn't seem to realize Wolf did the exact same thing the previous Day when he was trying to talk me out of voting for Asher. I think the way this game ended story-wise, with Red Hood (me) and Nightwing (Orange), was crazy fitting. What are the chances, huh? That's like if this ended with Batman (RKTaker) and The Joker (Wolf Hurricane). I'm kind of glad this game is over. It was fun as hell, but it can get very intense and time consuming too. Any questions? ;D
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,236
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Mar 25, 2013 16:29:45 GMT -5
To Latino Meat Honestly, what f***ed me over was at the very end of day two, when JoNo made that train comment The train comment was me fulfilling my post restriction. By posting a riddle.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Mar 25, 2013 16:59:16 GMT -5
No questions from me Yami. As you can see from the Cult chat, I was ready to go after you, but you struck first.
That said, I invite advice for future games. I've read from the Mafia wiki, but I think it'd be nice to read advice as it might relate to my gameplay.
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Big Bad Brad
Wade Wilson
Big Bad Brad
Tournament Master
Posts: 27,407
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Post by Big Bad Brad on Mar 25, 2013 17:08:09 GMT -5
This does remind me of my first mafia game I know its not Yami's first but it is his first time as Mafia and Godfather.
My first game I was Godfather and funny coincidence Zack Morris is Insane was in the mafia with me as he was with Yami.
My first game it came down to Me as Godfather VS two townies and I ended up winning just like Yami in this game so I can easily relate this game to my first game.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Mar 25, 2013 17:12:30 GMT -5
pegasus and SNS both having back and forths with Yami early one really made it hard to kill them.
There was a point where we were going to night kill peg, but backed off on him. I kinda wanted him to hang himself, I think one of the posts in the quick topic I even said how sweet it would be for pegasus to get himself lynched.
Maybe there was too much pride there, haha... but yeah, easily a thorn in our side which we couldn't night kill because it would have directly linked him to us.
Yami, peg being right on about me and then right on about Asher (same night I investigated Asher I think) showed me that he was Cop too... but then I was killed. :\ Way to go, Wolf, haha.
To think, Wolf doesn't kill me, and the game is over a few phases earlier. So much tension those last day posts... I wonder if Produce voting so quickly might have swayed Orange from voting alongside him.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Mar 25, 2013 17:17:29 GMT -5
To Latino Meat Honestly, what f***ed me over was at the very end of day two, when JoNo made that train comment Yeah, you had us confused, and honestly worried that I was pegged really early on. What was awesome is that no one followed up on your accusation of me later in the game. Well, awesome for me
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Post by Orange on Mar 25, 2013 17:19:37 GMT -5
To think, Wolf doesn't kill me, and the game is over a few phases earlier. So much tension those last day posts... I wonder if Produce voting so quickly might have swayed Orange from voting alongside him. Well, not really. As Yami said, I trusted him in game, and his points against Produceman's inactivity and such (about that being how mafia plays) just won me over, so to speak. It's a tough spot to be in, kind of like you'll see on TV shows where they have that wacky clone situation. "I'M THE REAL ONE! SHOOT HIM!" "NO, I'M THE REAL ONE! SHOOT HIM!" Past that, looking back through the entire game, I just got town vibes from Yami. At the worst, I thought that he might've been Cult Leader, but after SnS flipped Cult, I just assumed (not blindly, though, mind you) that he was town. Produceman, what with his votes against me and not liking my arguments against SnS, which turned out to be correct after all, I just didn't feel that he was a true townie. And to think, I was fully ready to cast a vote for Yami, but I wanted to hear him out. Guess that's what I get for being a nice guy! Anyway, hopefully we'll hear from peg in here. I know we definitely had some harsh things to say to each other, but I'd like to hear actual peg's thoughts on the game as a whole.
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
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Post by Yami Daimao on Mar 25, 2013 17:32:23 GMT -5
And to think, I was fully ready to cast a vote for Yami, but I wanted to hear him out. Guess that's what I get for being a nice guy! But that's something that could also win the game for Town. If the roles were reversed, and Produce was the Godfather and I was the Townie, wanting to hear me out first would have been beneficial. It's good to hear both sides first. I gave the people I ended up voting for a chance to speak and defend themselves before I voted. I mean, I'm sure you were saying that tongue-in-cheek, but it's still some good advice nonetheless, even if it is pretty obvious. You made the right move, but the wrong choice (well, wrong for Town). I guess this has somewhat screwed me in any future mafia games I participate in where I am in fact Town. lol
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Mar 25, 2013 17:46:16 GMT -5
The irony of my Zack kill; me and BRB argued for a good minute whether it'd be you or Peg. Originally, I picked Peg, then I switched it back to you because, wait for it, I was expecting you to come up town so we'd have the leverage to pick off Pegasus. Ironic that I made a thing of it for a while that if Peg was town, more than likely Yami was scum (and, of course, vice versa). If only you guys had listened to me...
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Mar 25, 2013 17:55:30 GMT -5
For me... it's don't trust Double H and don't trust Yami.
Also... Lodi. Don't trust Lodi... what was funny to me was that I made the same Lodi joke in the Star Wars game (I think it was) but this one I added 'lol'... I regretted the 'lol' right after posting, since that isn't a usual phrase I use.
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