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Post by Triple H buried SnS on Mar 27, 2013 15:48:55 GMT -5
Or for that matter... once you got one mafia, don't lynch him... leave him alive and keep roleblocking him. Cause by not lynching him you are preventing the mafia night kill every night. Then let all the power roles weed out all but the mafia godfather. A roleblocker that prevents any mafia night kill by correctly targeting any of the mafia is potentially game breaking. Well its not really any mafia just the Godfather and the one performing the kill. Say Yami decided to do the kills each night and Zack or Lodi got roleblocked well the kill would go through. Also if Zack Morris got roleblocked instead of Lodi that night the kill would of went through since Zack wasn't the one performing the kill. So the safe bet for the Godfather would be to perform the kill himself that way if Lodi or Zack got roleblocked it meant nothing. Still... you find the godfather... don't lynch him... keep roleblocking him... cop the rest of the mafia.. then lynch the godfather when he's the last one left. Still gamebreaking, even if it is to a lesser degree. |
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Yami Daimao
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Post by Yami Daimao on Mar 27, 2013 15:53:51 GMT -5
Or for that matter... once you got one mafia, don't lynch him... leave him alive and keep roleblocking him. Cause by not lynching him you are preventing the mafia night kill every night. Then let all the power roles weed out all but the mafia godfather. A roleblocker that prevents any mafia night kill by correctly targeting any of the mafia is potentially game breaking. Well its not really any mafia just the Godfather and the one performing the kill. Say Yami decided to do the kills each night and Zack or Lodi got roleblocked well the kill would go through. Also if Zack Morris got roleblocked instead of Lodi that night the kill would of went through since Zack wasn't the one performing the kill. So the safe bet for the Godfather would be to perform the kill himself that way if Lodi or Zack got roleblocked it meant nothing. Had I know this from the beginning, I would have probably been more comfortable performing the kills myself. Lodi would have still been with us longer, and turns out, I was not roleblocked at all. Next time I play, I'm going to ask every question about my role or roles that can effect me that I can before I proceed to do anything. lol |
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Mar 28, 2013 11:54:21 GMT -5
I was amazed that BRB stayed in as long as he did in his first game. I figured he was town and Mafia would eliminate him after a certain amount of days. Would not have expected him to be Cult. Frankly, so am I. As can be seen now, I bluffed about having a power role from the beginning while being careful not to use the exact phrase "power role"; I only ever said "role." I did this while Town to act as a distraction - trick Mafia into killing me instead of an actual power role. So it went for about half the game before I was converted. When that happened, I was able to use my inexperience as a tool, a weapon. Truth be told, almost every fundamental blunder/misconception I made even when Cult was legitimate. Add on top of that a phantom power role, and I was able to almost win this game for Cult by sheer endurance and deception. Damn you Yami! i was on to you! Regardless, it's too bad I can't exploit being new to the game a second time. That said, I feel like I actually did learn a thing or two about investigation playing this game, but because I had to switch gears halfway through, I think I'll need more practice at being Town and only Town as opposed to playing a Third Party that's out for blood and investigative. I think I have Scum play down pat though. |
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Mar 28, 2013 12:20:29 GMT -5
So I was right. On second thought, considering our low numbers, I don't know how to feel about that mod. Again, it shocks me that Town lost when this game felt like it was almost set to Town's favor. I'd like to know Mason's reasoning for it before I go any further. I think that the reason Town lost is complex and is a series of blunders and good exploitation by the Mafia. - Almost every role block affected Town rather than Scum. Town was tripping over itself. - Drama. Two Townies were lost due to drama rather than actual investigation. That was a setback because they didn't reveal much of anything by being lynched. Even worse, one was the Doctor, who could have saved a couple Townies which would have helped secure a victory for Town in the long run. It was crippling. - Rookies. Orange and I were the two new guys, right? Mafia was right to keep us in the game as long as we could be manipulated due to inexperience. I might argue I was no longer really playing along with this strategy when I was converted, but due to Wolf's roleblock on SNS we were on a wild goose chase that only helped Mafia. - Zack Morris invalidated voting records. He casted doubt on everyone thanks to strategic voting. - PW was a mixed bag. He seemed to be pretty good at finding Scum for Night Killers to target, but because he didn't find much Scum for Day Lynches, it really casted doubt on him. Doesn't help that I fanned the flames based on a false suspicion, but we all did in the Cult. Just wish I had realized that Wolf might have role blocked SNS. I think those are key factors that led to a Mafia victory. If this exact same set up was used again, it might go very differently if there are no rookies, there is no drama, and if Town doesn't lose vital power roles in the earlier parts of the game. |
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pegasuswarrior
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Mar 28, 2013 15:24:12 GMT -5
At this point, I realize this is going to fall on deaf ears, but I'll go ahead ... - Zack Morris invalidated voting records. He casted doubt on everyone thanks to strategic voting. No, he didn't. He didn't invalidate anything. He played the people who were willing to bank everything on voting patterns and then try to reel back once they realized they were wrong. This happens in every Mafia game that I've ever been in pretty much. Town invalidated voting records (and so did Yami as he backed up his partner's move, but that's what he was supposed to do). But Latino Meat did not. I didn't care that he had voted for Lodirulz. On the other hand, Produceman going right after Lodirulz first was reassurance. Two votes, two different reads on how it played out. It's simply reading the material and HOW it plays out. It's not an "if not this, then the other" situation ... not ever. (And that's why he's MVP; even in post-game, his move still has people thinking voting records were invalid.) So, I guess in a sense he MAY have invalidated votes. But he did so with people who were always looking at one extreme or the other. Didn't invalidate anything for me (and I know I'm not alone in that line of thinking). - PW was a mixed bag. He seemed to be pretty good at finding Scum for Night Killers to target, but because he didn't find much Scum for Day Lynches, it really casted doubt on him. Doesn't help that I fanned the flames based on a false suspicion. And again, you haven't read the day-by-day journal. Again, it won't mean anything to you who has your mind made up, but I will have to say that I think I did pretty alright at finding Scum ... in DAY lynches. The blame is solely on people who wouldn't follow up. BRB switched to Knailsic on a critical day that we HAD to have an SNS or Yami Redgrave vote. I've listed my play mistakes on the lengthy entry posted on a previous page. But scum-finding was pretty accurate. And since I've gotten called out, it's only fair that I point out that, yes, BRB, it was you who were one of the forehead slaps of the game on Day 4 when you changed over to the vote other detractors WANTED you to go for. Those Days 3 and 4 were EPIC levels of botch (quite honestly, the biggest I've seen since I've ever played), and while I haven't called out names (and I won't, because it doesn't really matter), I'm not going to look at your post without a reply. Don't get me wrong at all. I'm not pinning this on BRB. I'm just a little befuddled as to how he can still pin this on me. I will again point out that people NOT going along with me on SNS and Yami is what broke the game wide open and, quite honestly, led directly to the Town's loss. So, might want to look at that day-by-day tracker one more time before "PW couldn't find day scum if they hit him in the face" comments are made. I'm not a perfect player, and there's always someone I have to consider and re-consider that I just don't know about (Asher is that player in this game and was probably my biggest bane to the scum-hunting cause), but the core of the antagonizing parties (SnS, Latino Meat, and Yami) were quite clearly filling my radar, (PROVEN by series of PMs and in-game notes) and the posts from Day 2 and 3 and 4 don't lie either. It's the posts from Day 5 onward that lie; I know, because I'm the one that was playing the liar. And a butthole while I was at it. I apologize once again for the "bad cop" routine, but I have justified it, and I just have to reply whenever I see my name cited as the reason we lost. Quite frankly, it wasn't, pure and simple. |
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pegasuswarrior
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Mar 28, 2013 15:30:29 GMT -5
On a brighter note, as bad as I hate Cult in these games, how rad would it have been for Knailsic to have been a Cult convert on Night Two or Three, either one. Lynched (except not). AND become Mafia thereafter. I probably would've been stuck on that one for dayyyyys.
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Post by Allison Reynolds on Mar 28, 2013 15:45:02 GMT -5
- I agree with Pegasus on Cult (and other Alignment changing roles in these games), but I'll talk about my reservations on that at a different time. Pretty much watch out, as they might be overpowering and it really hurts the town more than anything when alignments change to benefit scum (Saulus/Judas/Vampire, Cult) after formerly thinking certain people helped. Cults are important to balance especially to prevent them from completely overrunning the game.
- Also just because someone may have possibly mislynched a few times (on purpose or not), doesn't invalidate them. I think I had to repeat this several times in several games. It is silly to think that other wise no one is going to want to take initiative and only vote on bandwagons created by others for fear of being 'wrong' and thus discredited entirely. Everyone gets things wrong in this game, no matter how 'good' they are. Remember that people.
Edit: It's fine to get things wrong, everyone does. *** NOT directed at anyone in particular.
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Yami Daimao
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Post by Yami Daimao on Mar 28, 2013 16:00:06 GMT -5
Town losing was not your fault, Peg. You're absolutely right.
But your "bad cop" routine, on top of your sudden "jumping" from target to target, did not help Town have as much faith in you as you wanted them to. I know you said you did what you did because Town was "shooting themselves in the foot", and you thought playing your flavor role would add some...well, flavor...to the game (which it most certainly did). But you said it yourself, you had to act scummy to keep the actual scum from killing you long enough to do what you had to do. Add the two "sure things" of scum in ritt and Hayden, and you can't really blame them for not having complete faith in you all things considered.
As for the voting patterns, what Zack did only invalidated them for those who rely on them. For guys like Orange and BRB, Zack proved that just because you voted more for Mafia and less for Town, does not mean you're innocent. This was easy for me to use against you, Peg, when you kept using voting for Lodi and Knailsic II (Two-Knail?) as justification. This caused you to claim that "according to Yami, voting for Mafia means you're Mafia/scum". This is not necessarily true. You can be scum (Cult/Serial Killer) and still vote for Mafia. But the point I was trying to make is, don't rely too much on voting patterns, especially after that. Some of you (including Peg) made it easy for me to exploit.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Mar 28, 2013 16:05:33 GMT -5
At this point, I realize this is going to fall on deaf ears, but I'll go ahead ... No, he didn't. He didn't invalidate anything. He played the people who were willing to bank everything on voting patterns and then try to reel back once they realized they were wrong. This happens in every Mafia game that I've ever been in pretty much. Town invalidated vorting records (and so did Yami as he backed up his partner's move, but that's what he was supposed to do). But Latino Meat did not. I didn't care that he had voted for Lodirulz. On the other hand, Produceman going right after Lodirulz first was reassurance. Two votes, two different reads on how it played out. It's simply reading the material and HOW it plays out. It's not an "if not this, then the other" situation ... not ever. (And that's why he's MVP; even in post-game, his move still has people thinking voting records were invalid.) So, I guess in a sense he MAY have invalidated votes. But he did so with people who were always looking at one extreme or the other. Didn't invalidate anything for me (and I know I'm not alone in that line of thinking). - PW was a mixed bag. He seemed to be pretty good at finding Scum for Night Killers to target, but because he didn't find much Scum for Day Lynches, it really casted doubt on him. Doesn't help that I fanned the flames based on a false suspicion. And again, you haven't read the day-by-day journal. Again, it won't mean anything to you who has your mind made up, but I will have to say that I think I did pretty alright at finding Scum ... in DAY lynches. The blame is solely on people who wouldn't follow up. BRB switched to Knailsic on a critical day that we HAD to have an SNS or Yami Redgrave vote. I've listed my play mistakes on the lengthy entry posted on a previous page. But scum-finding was pretty accurate. And since I've gotten called out, it's only fair that I point out that, yes, BRB, it was you who were one of the forehead slaps of the game on Day 4 when you changed over to the vote other detractors WANTED you to go for. Those Days 3 and 4 were EPIC levels of botch (quite honestly, the biggest I've seen since I've ever played), and while I haven't called out names (and I won't, because it doesn't really matter), I'm not going to look at your post without a reply. Don't get me wrong at all. I'm not pinning this on BRB. I'm just a little befuddled as to how he can still pin this on me. I will again point out that people NOT going along with me on SNS and Yami is what broke the game wide open and, quite honestly, led directly to the Town's loss. So, might want to look at that day-by-day tracker one more time before "PW couldn't find day scum if they hit him in the face" comments are made. I'm not a perfect player, and there's always someone I have to consider and re-consider that I just don't know about (Asher is that player in this game and was probably my biggest bane to the scum-hunting cause), but the core of the antagonizing parties (SnS, Latino Meat, and Yami) were quite clearly filling my radar, (PROVEN by series of PMs and in-game notes) and the posts from Day 2 and 3 and 4 don't lie either. It's the posts from Day 5 onward that lie; I know, because I'm the one that was playing the liar. And a butthole while I was at it. I apologize once again for the "bad cop" routine, but I have justified it, and I just have to reply whenever I see my name cited as the reason we lost. Quite frankly, it wasn't, pure and simple. I read the journal several days ago by now. It's just so long that I only absorbed some of it but didn't revisit it before my last post. My point was that you indeed found a respectable number of Scum, but more were Night Killed than Lynched. It's not that you couldn't find Scum during the Day, seeing as it took you a while before your Deputy role kicked in. The issue, why you were a "mixed bag" was that the distrust instilled by your "bad cop" act wasdouble edged sword. It found Scum that Night Killers exploited, but it made the Town leery of you while you remained alive to root out more Scum. Mixed bag, and you were one slippery devil. As for Zack, I suppose I should clarify that I meant that, while the game was being played, it became hard to trust the votes, though it might be more so for rookies, yes. All that said, if I did not become Cult, I think certain things would have differently transpired. Bear in mind that a good chunk of my suspicion, again, was the collective misperception by the Cult. It became my mission to bring you down, so naturally I'd put together as good a case I could. Without that suspicion, my perception would have been different. Needless to say, I'll remember that Town Skitzo can randomly role block in future games.  Also, for the record, that third die roll: 95% bullshit for the sake of taking you down and for consistency, 5% actual die roll for shits and giggles. Funny enough they legit rolled you though. Remember though, I only rolled Knailsic to redirect conversation; to get things moving from the standstill between you and SNS. I voted for him because votes are clearly taken more seriously. I only ever used the dice to completely guide my vote on Day 1, when it's a shot in the dark. |
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pegasuswarrior
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Post by pegasuswarrior on Mar 28, 2013 16:15:46 GMT -5
Fair enough. to get things moving from the standstill between you and SNS. And rule of thumb for everyone, by all means, don't hesitate and lynch one or the other when this happens. Even if it's me (in this case Town) or whoever, you get answers--that's the only point I ever tried to make about those day phases. Blows my mind this lynch wasn't executed one way or the other. |
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 28, 2013 18:33:09 GMT -5
Also to awser the Mafia,i HAD to give a hint that i was the mad hatter. Almost missed this. How so? Post restriction so i just came all out with the characte,if i just went all sneaky about it,would be suspicious |
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Yami Daimao
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Post by Yami Daimao on Mar 28, 2013 18:38:39 GMT -5
Yeah I just saw it on the first page and then deleted my post, but you got to it in time, ha ha.
Your post referencing the Mad Hatter, and the big player pool, is what first lead me to believe a Cult was involved in Day 1. Ironically, your death was the first official proof.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Mar 28, 2013 20:22:17 GMT -5
I too had a post restriction, speaking of which. I had to mention my favorite holiday on Day 2, though I took it further. Kinda fun really.
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Post by Triple H buried SnS on Mar 29, 2013 8:32:33 GMT -5
Note: Scum voting for other scum is actually normal. Its (as Spartan called it) Blending In 101.
The two Zack votes on scum were also on scum that were dead to rights anyway. With or without his vote, that person was getting voted off. So it only benefitted him to go along with the crowd to not isolate himself. You'll see this pattern alot the more you play.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 29, 2013 12:19:50 GMT -5
Yeah I just saw it on the first page and then deleted my post, but you got to it in time, ha ha. Your post referencing the Mad Hatter, and the big player pool, is what first lead me to believe a Cult was involved in Day 1. Ironically, your death was the first official proof. Funny because i wasn't even Cult at that point just on the first night. Some funny coincidences this game. |
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Post by Orange on Mar 29, 2013 23:39:27 GMT -5
Just wondering, what's the normal downtime in between Mafia games?
Not trying to rush anybody into getting the next one up, but I'm curious as to how long it is - unless it differs, which it probably does.
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Big Bad Brad
Wade Wilson
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Post by Big Bad Brad on Mar 29, 2013 23:43:01 GMT -5
The next one should be up pretty soon according to the Mafia Host waiting list topic.
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