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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Apr 14, 2013 16:45:40 GMT -5
First of all, if you're always going to think of somebody who has had SRS and HRT as a man, and if you're going to say "that's a man beating up a woman" when they get into a fight with a woman...to me, that says you have a pretty serious problem with trans people. You don't accept one who is MtF as a woman, not even after they've been legally declared as such. Second, I don't know what you're trying to prove with your silly question, but I don't think anybody should be hitting anybody unprovoked. I do not believe that anybody should allow anybody else to beat on them. If somebody were to hit me and continue to hit me, I would do my best to make them stop. If the only way I were able to do that involved hitting back, I would not feel guilty about it. Not if the alternative is ending up like Ric Flair did after his ex-wife attacked him. What are you going to say now? That that makes me as bad as Chris Brown or something? I have zero problems with the transgendered. I'll call them she or he whatever they want. But you can't just forget what they were. And no I wouldn't attack you for the second thing. More respect to you for sticking by those guns. I have no problems with that. I was legit just asking out of curiosity Okay then. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 14, 2013 16:51:02 GMT -5
This seems like one of those situations that needs to partially play out before we can properly assess a potential problem. If it's apparent after a few fights that there's no way any female fighter could possily compete against Fox, then it's time to ask these questions again. Until then, we can never know for sure.
As for Mitrione, screw him. He deserved everything he got.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 14, 2013 17:36:52 GMT -5
So what happens when Fox loses a match to a "natural" female?
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Sigma: Current SRW Champ!
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Post by Sigma: Current SRW Champ! on Apr 14, 2013 17:45:06 GMT -5
So what happens when Fox loses a match to a "natural" female? Then the "advantage" argument gets thrown out so to speak and it makes Mittrione sound like an even bigger dumbass than he is.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Apr 14, 2013 19:05:48 GMT -5
Even with Mitrione being a toolshed about these comments, the issue will need to take place, simply because this is the first "modern" example (and first when trans people are socially accepted as existing and natural, unlike when Renee Richards tested it in the '70s when no one really knew about transgender people.)
It's different now, because in the modern era, there is a lot more money that goes around in sport, and this will play a role in other sports as well for MtF trans participants.
Earlier in the week, Mark Cuban had said he would be interested in potentially drafting Brittney Griner, the top player in D-I women's basketball, with the Mavericks' second round pick [in the last ten picks of the draft.] Even when he said it, it was known to be viable because that level of pick has little to no chance of latching onto an NBA roster- if they can even get a 12th man out of the deal, it was a roaring success. If it's likely that Griner, the best college female, could MAYBE be a 12th woman on an NBA team- then it leads to the real question if Fox can thrive in MMA- what's to stop a moderate men's college player who has no hope of getting drafted in the NBA and is looking at Summer League stints and dates in the D-League and overseas for their career suddenly saying "Oh, I'm actually transgender and intend to undergo gender reassignment surgery- I want to be allowed to play in the WNBA"? What happens if, when the player likely succeeds [and is an automatic franchise-level WNBA player], more middling men's college players choose to follow suit- eventually shouldering out all the natural female players from the league?
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Apr 15, 2013 0:17:44 GMT -5
Even with Mitrione being a toolshed about these comments, the issue will need to take place, simply because this is the first "modern" example (and first when trans people are socially accepted as existing and natural, unlike when Renee Richards tested it in the '70s when no one really knew about transgender people.) It's different now, because in the modern era, there is a lot more money that goes around in sport, and this will play a role in other sports as well for MtF trans participants. Earlier in the week, Mark Cuban had said he would be interested in potentially drafting Brittney Griner, the top player in D-I women's basketball, with the Mavericks' second round pick [in the last ten picks of the draft.] Even when he said it, it was known to be viable because that level of pick has little to no chance of latching onto an NBA roster- if they can even get a 12th man out of the deal, it was a roaring success. If it's likely that Griner, the best college female, could MAYBE be a 12th woman on an NBA team- then it leads to the real question if Fox can thrive in MMA- what's to stop a moderate men's college player who has no hope of getting drafted in the NBA and is looking at Summer League stints and dates in the D-League and overseas for their career suddenly saying "Oh, I'm actually transgender and intend to undergo gender reassignment surgery- I want to be allowed to play in the WNBA"? What happens if, when the player likely succeeds [and is an automatic franchise-level WNBA player], more middling men's college players choose to follow suit- eventually shouldering out all the natural female players from the league? Because the slippery slop argument is built entirely on logical fallacy. Establishing a connections based not in evidence but rhetoric and hyperbole is at best a poor attempt make ones point, at worst manipulative arguments meant to obfuscate and dismiss. The reality is that this this process isn't easy. It involves legal ramifications, psychological therapy, hormone therapy, and sex reassignment surgery. So this hypothetically middling player will have to commit to a lie normally only seen in bad sitcoms and horrible Adam Sandler movies. Changing the legal status of your identity, engaging in long psychological evaluation and therapy, hormone therapy, and THEN gender reassignment actually forces there to be a foreseeable path and end point to this process. This is not just growing your hair long and making sure you shave your legs. Further, the WNBA can allow fore the exclusion of said player until after the process is done. There are no federal laws governing this, so it is up to a state by state determination. So in summation to answer your question. What is to stop your scenario from happening? The reality of the matter.
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Apr 23, 2013 5:32:31 GMT -5
Was just reading the MMA section of the Bleacher report
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 6:22:34 GMT -5
So what happens when Fox loses a match to a "natural" female? Then the "advantage" argument gets thrown out so to speak and it makes Mittrione sound like an even bigger dumbass than he is. No, the "advantage" does not get thrown out just because Fox lost to a girl. More like a loss for her fighter reputation, if she couldn't beat a girl with such an advantage. You make it seem like she losses all the advantages just because of an L in a match, and that is obviously not true. One loss (or more losses) doesn't change DNA, bone structure or anything other than the fact that Fallon Fox in that case is a not so great fighter.
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