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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 20:14:35 GMT -5
The thing that will always stand out from that match to me is Miz and R-Truth running down to ensure Punk won only for Truth to pull Punk out of the ring when he had Triple H beaten. Haha yeah, that was quite the "twist", shall we say. I really want to know if that was a mistake like the NXT 2 finale. Or if it's chalked up to crazy R-Truth being crazy. At the time I thought it was a storyline point, but it was such a clusterf*** that it seems that it was done just for the sake of being screwy. I think the idea was that Truth reacted blindly because Punk had helped in laying him and Miz out, but it still made zero sense.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 20:20:21 GMT -5
Haha yeah, that was quite the "twist", shall we say. I really want to know if that was a mistake like the NXT 2 finale. Or if it's chalked up to crazy R-Truth being crazy. At the time I thought it was a storyline point, but it was such a clusterf*** that it seems that it was done just for the sake of being screwy. I think the idea was that Truth reacted blindly because Punk had helped in laying him and Miz out, but it still made zero sense. And logistically it was probably done to make it so Punk "had Triple H beat" to preserve some credibility. That ended up getting lost in all the madness and the sheer fact that Triple H pinned CM Punk at a point when he did not need to be losing to anyone, let alone mostly retired Triple H.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Sept 3, 2013 20:29:34 GMT -5
I think the idea was that Truth reacted blindly because Punk had helped in laying him and Miz out, but it still made zero sense. And logistically it was probably done to make it so Punk "had Triple H beat" to preserve some credibility. That ended up getting lost in all the madness and the sheer fact that Triple H pinned CM Punk at a point when he did not need to be losing to anyone, let alone mostly retired Triple H. I love the argument that 1. Punk was going to face Nash and beat him. 2. Nash had to pull out so CM Punk had to wrestle HHH. 3. HHH had to beat CM Punk. 4. CM Punk couldn't beat HHH subsequently or have won their match because THIS BUSINESS! 5. How dare you criticize any of these best decisions at the time.
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Post by RI Richmark on Sept 3, 2013 20:29:48 GMT -5
Im sure this has been addressed. but wouldnt it make a ton of sense for the roster to walk out again, given what we've seen the last few weeks? Or are we supposed to forget they walked out on him once for far less deserved circumstances? Well, it could be the fact that in 2011 Triple H was new to his role as COO and John Laurinaitis was actively undermining Triple H's authority. The roster sensed that Hunter was a weak leader at the time and walked out. Now Hunter's position is far more secure and there is nobody in corporate who will stand in his way (until the mysterious Board of Directors decides to act). So anyone who walks out now may not come back. Or it could be that all the Superstars have short term memory loss and don't remember the walkout at all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 20:33:20 GMT -5
And logistically it was probably done to make it so Punk "had Triple H beat" to preserve some credibility. That ended up getting lost in all the madness and the sheer fact that Triple H pinned CM Punk at a point when he did not need to be losing to anyone, let alone mostly retired Triple H. I love the argument that 1. Punk was going to face Nash and beat him. 2. Nash had to pull out so CM Punk had to wrestle HHH. 3. HHH had to beat CM Punk. 4. CM Punk couldn't beat HHH subsequently or have won their match because THIS BUSINESS! 5. How dare you criticize any of these best decisions at the time. Triple H beating Punk never bothered me that much. I hated that feud, but I figured because of how poorly written it was it got to the point of being kind of necessary because Punk was so unlikable and such a whiny little bitch at the time he had to be knocked down a peg.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 20:47:54 GMT -5
And logistically it was probably done to make it so Punk "had Triple H beat" to preserve some credibility. That ended up getting lost in all the madness and the sheer fact that Triple H pinned CM Punk at a point when he did not need to be losing to anyone, let alone mostly retired Triple H. I love the argument that 1. Punk was going to face Nash and beat him. 2. Nash had to pull out so CM Punk had to wrestle HHH. 3. HHH had to beat CM Punk. 4. CM Punk couldn't beat HHH subsequently or have won their match because THIS BUSINESS! 5. How dare you criticize any of these best decisions at the time. Nash even being involved is so ridiculous that it seems like an elaborate sabotage. Of course, Trips beat him too! If Sean Waltman shows up for this angle, I know we're f***ed.
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Post by katiemorgan67212 on Sept 3, 2013 21:22:43 GMT -5
Im sure this has been addressed. but wouldnt it make a ton of sense for the roster to walk out again, given what we've seen the last few weeks? Or are we supposed to forget they walked out on him once for far less deserved circumstances? I don't think a walk out would make sense. It was different the first time Hunter was COO. Back then there wasn't a performance center. Now the roster knows there is an army of NXT kids to replace them and that they are completely expendable. Also, Hunter isn't playing this time. If they walked out now he wouldn't act all confused and distressed and reason with them - he would have The Shield beat each one of them before he personally fired them. Also, all of the rabble rousers (save one - a milquetoast Christian) that instigated the walk out are on Hunter's side this time. Most of the good guys in the company put up with almost anything for love of wrestling and love of the fans. And it's only been 3 weeks.
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Post by katiemorgan67212 on Sept 3, 2013 21:34:17 GMT -5
The title of this thread is funny, because I can't remember the last time I've been more interested in a WWE storyline than I have the last month or so. This "New Corporation" is the best thing they've done in years, IMO: 1) THE HEELS ARE ACTUALLY GETTING HEAT! When was the last time you had a heel or heel faction in WWE that seemed genuinely dangerous? I think that's part of why some people are freaking out so much about Bryan/Show/Ziggler etc. being "killed", because it's been so long since the bad guys in WWE actually had power and posed a true, near-insurmountable challenge to the good guys. I mean, hell, Triple H is getting legit boos, and he's one of those few guys with the tenure to be a de facto babyface. 2) The sinister Mr. McMahon was great, classic, but he was cartoony. Hunter and Steph, on the other hand, bring a sense of gravity to their megalomania that in a way is more terrifying. They're drunk on power, but they still maintain that even-tempered, disaffected "corporate" demeanor where even the most sociopathic actions are "just business". 3) Daniel Bryan is being booked as the anti-Cena. It's like they took the time to honestly dissect why John Cena never became their new Rock or Austin, in spite of a decade of pushing him relentlessly, and they realized that a top babyface needs to vulnerable. It became a running gag whenever Cena "miraculously" overcame the odds (see: destroying the Nexus almost single-handedly), but Bryan has spent weeks getting beaten down, as he logically should be when he has an entire stable of heels and the full weight of corporate power working against him. DB is eventually going to have that breakthrough moment where he DOES manage to do something miraculous and overcame insurmountable odds, but it's going to feel earned. He'll have gone through hell and shed blood, sweat and tears to get there. 4) They've spun a MITB cash-in on Daniel Bryan out to being a company-wide storyline that gives all of the babyfaces a central antagonist. Instead of just elevating Bryan, they're taking Show, Ziggler, Miz, Mark Henry (when he's healthy) and Cody and finally giving fans a reason to care for these guys other than "They smile when they come to the ring!". Going back to point 1, having strong heels has instantaneously made the babyfaces more interesting and vital, and for as much hand-wringing as this storyline has generated, I've not heard anyone saying "They really need to Cena back ASAP". I mean, hell, last night was the most over Cody Rhodes has EVER been, and it was all thanks to strong heels. 5) On a broader note, I love the more "reality" driven nature of their storytelling the past few weeks. I don't know if Total Divas is influencing it or is just a byproduct of it, but there's been a willingness to present the talent as actual people and not just characters recently, which does wonders for making the crowd connect with them on a deeper level. It gives me hope that, even after this "New Corporation" storyline has run its course, we're still going to see a more grounded, visceral manner of storytelling with Triple H assuming behind the scenes power. If I could like this post multiple times I would. Perfect explanation.
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Post by Brickstone Kid on Sept 3, 2013 21:46:59 GMT -5
I'm pretty bored with it. Tonight was the night to have Big Show save DB, and instead they gave us all this crap about him being broke, blah blah blah. Stupid. That says more about your impatience than WWE's storytelling. I guess, but it's been what, six consecutive shows that have all ended with Bryan getting his ass kicked? It's kind of getting old. Part of great storytelling is knowing when to make the pivotal plot turn before your audience starts to lose interest. They're close to losing me at this point.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Sept 3, 2013 21:55:30 GMT -5
And logistically it was probably done to make it so Punk "had Triple H beat" to preserve some credibility. That ended up getting lost in all the madness and the sheer fact that Triple H pinned CM Punk at a point when he did not need to be losing to anyone, let alone mostly retired Triple H. I love the argument that 1. Punk was going to face Nash and beat him. 2. Nash had to pull out so CM Punk had to wrestle HHH. 3. HHH had to beat CM Punk. 4. CM Punk couldn't beat HHH subsequently or have won their match because THIS BUSINESS! 5. How dare you criticize any of these best decisions at the time. I still question who's bright idea was it to have Kevin Nash in your company's biggest angle in 2011. It's like Dixie Carter and Hulk Hogan took over the booking and thought "You know what we need? Old WCW stars cause this Punk kid isn't ready brother dude jack!"
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Bang Bang Bart
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 3, 2013 22:43:16 GMT -5
Y'know something? The first guy to throw the metaphorical Molotov at the Hunner Corporation to spark the roster rebellion is gonna look like a million f***ing bucks, that's for sure.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Sept 3, 2013 22:47:57 GMT -5
You know, since they address the Ironclad Contract, I can't but wonder if they'll address the Board of Directors next week. Of course if they do, that seals it that we're through the looking glass.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2013 22:48:39 GMT -5
Y'know something? The first guy to throw the metaphorical Molotov at the Hunner Corporation to spark the roster rebellion is gonna look like a million f***ing bucks, that's for sure. Shame it's going to be Big Show. Would love for them to have Cody show up and go ballistic or there be like an army of fired guys who attack the Shield and inspire Big Show to punch out Triple H or something, but more likely Big Show's going to keep up his terrible crying for a few weeks then punch Orton only to eat a Pedigree or something.
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Dukect
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Post by Dukect on Sept 3, 2013 23:54:21 GMT -5
My thoughts in video form
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Post by PTBartman on Sept 4, 2013 19:48:53 GMT -5
They could but it shouldn't be another 'no confidence' thing. Maybe Bryan gets fired in front of the roster, but someone like Punk speaks up and says 'if you fire him, you fire ME'. The entire roster speaks up and Bryan leaves the arena with them. "I'm Daniel Bryan!" "I'M Daniel Bryan!" [crowd of wrestlers all begin to scream out, "I'm Daniel Bryan!!"] Sin Cara points at a picture of Big Show, realizes his botch and replaces it with a pic of Daniel Bryan as Trips screams CARELESS! at him.
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Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Sept 4, 2013 20:37:10 GMT -5
I don't think Austin or Rock ever ended 7 shows in a row being laid out in front of the McMahons or their goons.
Also, let's compare it to Immortal. That storyline featured the faces actually attempting to fight back against the jerks in charge. Some of them actually turning face to oppose said jerks in charge. The champion, be it Hardy, Anderson, or Angle, was made to be the central focus. When Sting wanted help in taking out the regime's hired guns, he didn't get 30 people standing there while he got the ever-loving shit beaten out of him twice a week, Fortune and various others actually came to even the odds.
And another thing: An iron-clad contract apparently would let Big Show attempt murder on Vince last year, exactly how will not wrestling violate it this year?
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Sept 5, 2013 5:23:49 GMT -5
You know that thread we just had about times the IWC overreacted?
This will be in next year's edition I'm almost completely sure of it.
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Post by g1megatronfan on Sept 5, 2013 14:01:26 GMT -5
This is only my opinion here but to me...the main problem with this whole thing is HHH. Can he be any more boring? He just sucks the fun out of everything he comes near. Every time he takes the mic he makes me wish I was deaf. So boring...so...so boring for me to listen to. Just painful, God-awful stuff from this guy.
He needs to leave for the rest of his life. He needs to hobble into the sunset...bad quads and all and never come back. Unfortunately that will never happen.
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Post by angryfan on Sept 5, 2013 14:41:14 GMT -5
Watching more of this, I try to picture Trips, as good as he is at drawing heat, doing the things that the great heels used to. Flair begging off and getting his ass kicked, only to be saved via a run-in. Piper running his mouth, having the ability to back it up, yet getting stomped by the babyface in the end.
They could "look weak" for the moment, but it was their ability to, honestly, be in denial as characters that let them maintain their heat. Punk in the height of his heel run with SES pretty much never won, but he was an absolute heat magnate.
Trips just doesn't show weakness. Sure, he might send lackies, but we all know if he throws a punch, it's going to be "better than everyone else's", if he hits his finish, it's death.
THIS, is the problem. You've got a guy who is as much a student of wrestling's history as anyone else, who understands how the heels got their heat for decades, yet he can't or won't allow himself to be in that situation, at least not with people who aren't either established or hand picked.
He said in the Grantland interview about people saying "I don't want to work with that guy" and how hard it made things, but how many guys has he worked with as a heel and come out the way that Flair or Piper used to? Still hated, but vanquished convincingly.
I'll give you Batista, and I'll give you Cena even though he was the de-facto face in that situation. Give me two and I'll admit I was wrong.
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Post by Hurbster on Sept 5, 2013 14:51:47 GMT -5
This storyline is nowhere NEAR the worst I have seen in wrestling.
Nowhere near. Is it just the HHH hate coming out again ?
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