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Post by dragonsteincole on Sept 5, 2013 15:24:40 GMT -5
This storyline is nowhere NEAR the worst I have seen in wrestling. Nowhere near. Is it just the HHH hate coming out again ? To make an analogy to any other sport - people get tired of seeing the same people win or dominate for a long time, they would rather see anybody else succeed that this person/team. Like F1, with Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel winning year after year, people just want new people on top.
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Post by mysterydriver on Sept 5, 2013 21:05:39 GMT -5
Personally, I don't think the story is horrible, but at the current moment, I'm just not the target audience.
When I watch TV, I enjoy comedies. Action shows. Mysteries. Light stuff where the good guys come out in the end. I would be bummed if I watched a series of episodes of Psych built around the likable character Buzz rising up as a amazing cop only to be constantly demoted and embarrassed by the mayor and his chosen top cop. I'd like goofy Buzz showing he's more than a punchline...wait, where am I...right, I like the formerly super goofy Daniel Bryan showing he's more than a punchline and hate watching two months of "He's not just a punchline, he's not worthy of even that" style stories. I don't like watching shows that bum me out. I didn't watch 24. I had no interest in HBO's Oz. I'm not down with Breaking Bad. I like lighter stuff.
So, I have no problem with people enjoying it, but as of right now, it's not fun and therefore I'm not enjoying it. I'm sure I'll be down when Bryan finally gets an upperhand, I just hope I'm still around by then.
PS: I'm not a big fan of Big Show and I really dislike Triple H as a character so the added part where Daniel Bryan became a prop to Show's agony was something that I just found completely dull and irritating from a pure story point.
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Post by The Tee Why on Sept 5, 2013 21:18:27 GMT -5
Horrible Bosses : WWE Edition
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 21:29:27 GMT -5
Watching more of this, I try to picture Trips, as good as he is at drawing heat, doing the things that the great heels used to. Flair begging off and getting his ass kicked, only to be saved via a run-in. Piper running his mouth, having the ability to back it up, yet getting stomped by the babyface in the end. They could "look weak" for the moment, but it was their ability to, honestly, be in denial as characters that let them maintain their heat. Punk in the height of his heel run with SES pretty much never won, but he was an absolute heat magnate. Trips just doesn't show weakness. Sure, he might send lackies, but we all know if he throws a punch, it's going to be "better than everyone else's", if he hits his finish, it's death. THIS, is the problem. You've got a guy who is as much a student of wrestling's history as anyone else, who understands how the heels got their heat for decades, yet he can't or won't allow himself to be in that situation, at least not with people who aren't either established or hand picked. He said in the Grantland interview about people saying "I don't want to work with that guy" and how hard it made things, but how many guys has he worked with as a heel and come out the way that Flair or Piper used to? Still hated, but vanquished convincingly. I'll give you Batista, and I'll give you Cena even though he was the de-facto face in that situation. Give me two and I'll admit I was wrong. Man... That touches on something else I really hate about this feud. As much as I'll defend the overall booking, it will always drive me up a damned wall that Hunner doesn't know how to "bury" people. This dude swears by Flair and shit, but Flair had a way of talking shit about other guys without throwing dirt on their babyface fire. Dude, I'm hearing that on Smackdown last week Hunner was talking about how Dolph Ziggler was "too small" and how Miz would never get another title run because he's "all talk." Bruh, why would you say that shit?! That's too on-the-nose. Just say the fact they give their negative opinions when not asked, means they aren't "team players" or some other corporate speak and stop trying to gut-punch faces. It's like he gets the point he's got to be a condescending asshole, but he still doesn't get he shouldn't do that at the expense of someone else's heat. Ric Flair would make fun of Dusty's upbringing. It was something Dusty was always proud of, it made Flair look like a prick but also helped put over Dusty as a blue-collar guy as he was never ashamed of where he came from. Ric Flair would talk shit about how Magnum TA was a skinny runt who dressed horribly and couldn't get the ladies. Back in those days, you'd have to be crazy to believe that considering how Magnum looked and how he was booked. It still made Flair look like a prick, but Flair always said wackytown shit like that. Hunner probably would've said Dusty was an out-of-shape loser who couldn't dance or that Magnum TA belonged more in 70's porn.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 5, 2013 21:52:15 GMT -5
I will say that the consistent ends to shows with the Hunner Corporation standing tall over DB has me thinking up lots and lots of scenarios on how Bryan can get revenge on H or just who will be the Big Damn Heroes in this feud, which is probably one of the joys of enjoying wrestling from a kayfabe perspective.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 6, 2013 11:09:48 GMT -5
Watching more of this, I try to picture Trips, as good as he is at drawing heat, doing the things that the great heels used to. Flair begging off and getting his ass kicked, only to be saved via a run-in. Piper running his mouth, having the ability to back it up, yet getting stomped by the babyface in the end. They could "look weak" for the moment, but it was their ability to, honestly, be in denial as characters that let them maintain their heat. Punk in the height of his heel run with SES pretty much never won, but he was an absolute heat magnate. Trips just doesn't show weakness. Sure, he might send lackies, but we all know if he throws a punch, it's going to be "better than everyone else's", if he hits his finish, it's death. THIS, is the problem. You've got a guy who is as much a student of wrestling's history as anyone else, who understands how the heels got their heat for decades, yet he can't or won't allow himself to be in that situation, at least not with people who aren't either established or hand picked. The thing here is, I don't think it's his ego. I think he's HAD to do that: Be a heel who has all the plot advantages faces usually enjoy. The thing is, he's just not a star. He's just not. He's a solid hand... he's Tatanka. He's Mike Rotundo. He was around all that time during attitude and just after, but if you walk up to some dude on the street and ask them who HHH is, they'll have no idea. But, years ago, they chose him. And it was a good choice: He was young, loyal, and excellent in the ring. So they fed him Foley. But it didn't get him to that top echelon. But they had just spent all this effort acting like he WAS in the top echelon, and he was gaining political power and eventually married Steph. So they had to do all these drastic things to keep people thinking he was a megastar. Stuff that heels almost never get. First heel to win a main event at Wrestlemania! Title Reign of Doom, where he was a super racist.... and wins the feud! Even as a face, he gets to break the 4th wall every five seconds and be cooler than everyone. No one else can. But that's the thing, if he didn't do all that stuff, then no one would care about him, and they've chosen him as someone people should care about. It would wreck their stories, and it would undo all the sacrifices they've already made for him.
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Post by crowwreak was WRONG on Sept 6, 2013 11:47:36 GMT -5
I'm also seriously getting annoyed by everyone on here calling him Hunner.
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Sept 6, 2013 11:59:29 GMT -5
Sometimes I think wrestling storylines in general are written by SNL writers. They may have great premises to start off, but they never put together an idea of how the story ends.
I hope they have one for this story.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Sept 6, 2013 11:59:32 GMT -5
You know that thread we just had about times the IWC overreacted? This will be in next year's edition I'm almost completely sure of it. Are you going by hyperbole title alone? Or are you erroneously going to include the 95% of people who are trying to speak of this in a composed articulate manner, using examples and reasons as to why they may doubt it? Despite what you may WANT to see from anyone who doesn't like how this is playing out, there's little hysteria from most people. Not agreeing with what WWE's doing doesn't equal "the sky is falling" or "quitting wrestling foreverz". To all those who think some are overreacting, I believe others are overreacting to the reactions.
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Post by rybackrulez on Sept 6, 2013 12:11:52 GMT -5
Pretty much
HHH being an evil and calculating heel. Steph as a disengenuous bitch. Shield as attack dogs. Orton as the cockier than ever chosen one. Fits great. The fact that all the guys hhh surrounds himself with are champions, also helps those titles become a bit relevant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 12:29:42 GMT -5
I'm also seriously getting annoyed by everyone on here calling him Hunner. Everyone on where? Other than myself I've only seen three or four people call him "Hunner" on a regular basis. Unless you mean everyone on WWE programming. Hardly anyone calls him "Hunter."
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 6, 2013 12:30:28 GMT -5
It's definitely not the worst storyline. But I shall remain cautiously optimistic and keep my expectations VERY low.
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,724
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Sept 6, 2013 13:09:34 GMT -5
You know that thread we just had about times the IWC overreacted? This will be in next year's edition I'm almost completely sure of it. Are you going by hyperbole title alone? Or are you erroneously going to include the 95% of people who are trying to speak of this in a composed articulate manner, using examples and reasons as to why they may doubt it? Despite what you may WANT to see from anyone who doesn't like how this is playing out, there's little hysteria from most people. Not agreeing with what WWE's doing doesn't equal "the sky is falling" or "quitting wrestling foreverz". To all those who think some are overreacting, I believe others are overreacting to the reactions. I've read a good portion of this thread and even the supposedly level headed responses strike of overreaction to me. I've found myself shaking my head in disbelief at quite a few posts that were trying to sound calm and rational. I've seen comparisons to Aces and Eights' never ending storyline after what... three weeks? I just think there's a startling lack of patience on display here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 13:13:09 GMT -5
Watching more of this, I try to picture Trips, as good as he is at drawing heat, doing the things that the great heels used to. Flair begging off and getting his ass kicked, only to be saved via a run-in. Piper running his mouth, having the ability to back it up, yet getting stomped by the babyface in the end. They could "look weak" for the moment, but it was their ability to, honestly, be in denial as characters that let them maintain their heat. Punk in the height of his heel run with SES pretty much never won, but he was an absolute heat magnate. Trips just doesn't show weakness. Sure, he might send lackies, but we all know if he throws a punch, it's going to be "better than everyone else's", if he hits his finish, it's death. THIS, is the problem. You've got a guy who is as much a student of wrestling's history as anyone else, who understands how the heels got their heat for decades, yet he can't or won't allow himself to be in that situation, at least not with people who aren't either established or hand picked. He said in the Grantland interview about people saying "I don't want to work with that guy" and how hard it made things, but how many guys has he worked with as a heel and come out the way that Flair or Piper used to? Still hated, but vanquished convincingly. I'll give you Batista, and I'll give you Cena even though he was the de-facto face in that situation. Give me two and I'll admit I was wrong. Man... That touches on something else I really hate about this feud. As much as I'll defend the overall booking, it will always drive me up a damned wall that Hunner doesn't know how to "bury" people. This dude swears by Flair and shit, but Flair had a way of talking shit about other guys without throwing dirt on their babyface fire. Dude, I'm hearing that on Smackdown last week Hunner was talking about how Dolph Ziggler was "too small" and how Miz would never get another title run because he's "all talk." Bruh, why would you say that shit?! That's too on-the-nose. Just say the fact they give their negative opinions when not asked, means they aren't "team players" or some other corporate speak and stop trying to gut-punch faces. It's like he gets the point he's got to be a condescending asshole, but he still doesn't get he shouldn't do that at the expense of someone else's heat. Ric Flair would make fun of Dusty's upbringing. It was something Dusty was always proud of, it made Flair look like a prick but also helped put over Dusty as a blue-collar guy as he was never ashamed of where he came from. Ric Flair would talk shit about how Magnum TA was a skinny runt who dressed horribly and couldn't get the ladies. Back in those days, you'd have to be crazy to believe that considering how Magnum looked and how he was booked. It still made Flair look like a prick, but Flair always said wackytown shit like that. Hunner probably would've said Dusty was an out-of-shape loser who couldn't dance or that Magnum TA belonged more in 70's porn. That is an awesome post.
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Post by Been burned too many times on Sept 6, 2013 13:31:12 GMT -5
I don't hate the story but I'm kinda feeling indifferent.
Big Show doing all that crying on Raw didn't help matters. People talk about this storyline making Bryan more over but he was already the most over guy on the roster going into SummerSlam. The storyline isn't making me dislike Bryan, I already did/do like him. But it's not really making me like him MORE either.
I came out of Raw last Monday liking Cody Rhodes more than anyone on the roster...and he got 'fired'. Daniel Bryan(the main babyface) didn't do anything interesting. I'm kinda not feeling strongly towards one way or the other(Hate/Love), pretty much right in the middle of indifference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 14:22:24 GMT -5
Watching more of this, I try to picture Trips, as good as he is at drawing heat, doing the things that the great heels used to. Flair begging off and getting his ass kicked, only to be saved via a run-in. Piper running his mouth, having the ability to back it up, yet getting stomped by the babyface in the end. They could "look weak" for the moment, but it was their ability to, honestly, be in denial as characters that let them maintain their heat. Punk in the height of his heel run with SES pretty much never won, but he was an absolute heat magnate. Trips just doesn't show weakness. Sure, he might send lackies, but we all know if he throws a punch, it's going to be "better than everyone else's", if he hits his finish, it's death. THIS, is the problem. You've got a guy who is as much a student of wrestling's history as anyone else, who understands how the heels got their heat for decades, yet he can't or won't allow himself to be in that situation, at least not with people who aren't either established or hand picked. The thing here is, I don't think it's his ego. I think he's HAD to do that: Be a heel who has all the plot advantages faces usually enjoy. The thing is, he's just not a star. He's just not. He's a solid hand... he's Tatanka. He's Mike Rotundo. He was around all that time during attitude and just after, but if you walk up to some dude on the street and ask them who HHH is, they'll have no idea. But, years ago, they chose him. And it was a good choice: He was young, loyal, and excellent in the ring. So they fed him Foley. But it didn't get him to that top echelon. But they had just spent all this effort acting like he WAS in the top echelon, and he was gaining political power and eventually married Steph. So they had to do all these drastic things to keep people thinking he was a megastar. Stuff that heels almost never get. First heel to win a main event at Wrestlemania! Title Reign of Doom, where he was a super racist.... and wins the feud! Even as a face, he gets to break the 4th wall every five seconds and be cooler than everyone. No one else can. But that's the thing, if he didn't do all that stuff, then no one would care about him, and they've chosen him as someone people should care about. It would wreck their stories, and it would undo all the sacrifices they've already made for him. I know I already liked this, I'm quoting this anyway so don't judge me! This is the most succinct and accurate analysis of Hunner's career I've seen in a while that doesn't involve Jim Cornette. If I could put that in a frame under that (arguably) photoshopped picture of Hunner with all those titles, I would. It's a weird moment for me when I was consciously aware of the King of Kings was being paraded around the town square stark naked while we were supposed to marvel at his fabulous clothes. I think it was the time Raw was on TNN and they were running adverts about their programming. They had some girl geeking out about all the cool shows on TNN then talked about Raw, which I think would've been in the middle of the "Reign of Terror." She talked about how cool Raw was, which is whatever, but one line she said struck me as so wrong I remember it to this day, damn near a decade later: "TRIPLE H! GIMME A CA-ALL!~" I was gobsmacked. Who the **** is checking out for Hunner like that? He ain't a heartthrob. He ain't a looker. He sure as hell ain't a star. That's when the full weight of it hit me, they were really going to force people into believing it. Maybe I'm just projecting but I think on a visceral level people know Hunner isn't a star like Austin or Rock. He doesn't have the good will built up with a memorable gimmick like Undertaker, nor does he have the good will built up of a guy who is one of the best wrestlers to ever do it, like Flair and HBK. He's solid but not particularly impressive. His promos are serviceable at best when he's putting over a match and can't rely on unbalanced gut-punching or fourth-wall breaking. As "ehh" as Cornette can be with some of his wrestling opinions, I'd say he was dead center on Hunner. He's the guy that works with the guy who makes money and there's no shame in that. The problem still remains you've got a bunch of people who swear Hunner's the guy that makes money and...I wish they would stop. The role he's doing now is a lot more in line with what he should've been doing for ages. I don't know what spurned on this tangent but that's what happens when it's rainy, midday and I feel someway of something about something.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Sept 6, 2013 14:40:43 GMT -5
I'm also seriously getting annoyed by everyone on here calling him Hunner. Everyone on where? Other than myself I've only seen three or four people call him "Hunner" on a regular basis. Unless you mean everyone on WWE programming. Hardly anyone calls him "Hunter." I always thought it was more of a dig at Beth Phoenix than Triple H myself. a funny one.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Sept 6, 2013 14:51:47 GMT -5
Here's why this shit is good, and here's why just as many people hate it as they do love it.
For the first time in a pretty solid while, WWE is building a megapower outside of the conventions we have all come to expect. This feud doesn't have what has been going on the last few years. It doesn't have the heel champion taking needless losses. It doesn't have the face getting one over on him two weeks before the PPV, so the heel can get the last word in on the go home Raw, so we go into the PPV pretending to expect that the face is going to win.
No. What's happening right now is believable. HHH is a hulking giant now corporate piece of shit who is using his intimidation and weight within the company to pick on the little guy. This is real. It's based on all of our (smarks) preconceived notions. And it's working. It's pissing a whole lot of us off. That to me is how wrestling should be. They are LISTENING to us and using our insecurities against us. That's what a fresh episodic show would do. That's what a company that needs to push out 8 hours of content a week should have figured out to do a long time ago.
Are they going to get it right? Probably not. They f*** everything up. But for a moment, it was fresh. And I don't mean "let's let CM Punk cut a edgy promo so we can bury him later" fresh. I mean like this is the kind of change that can reverberate within the entire company. This could freshen up a lot of characters, it could start a new era of stable wars. There are a lot of potato roots that can come out of this spud.
So yeah, it sucks watching my favorite wrestler get his ass kicked every week. But what happens if just this once, against all of our notions, HHH instead of burying the freshest thing in wrestling, puts him over?
It could genuinely be the second coming of Austin-McMahon. With HHH chasing the little guy, Davey and Goliath style, and constantly being one step behind. Maybe it's not fresh. But in the face of Cena wins, it's certainly a fresher breath of air.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Sept 6, 2013 14:55:30 GMT -5
Guys, his name is Haitch.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 15:03:46 GMT -5
Guys, his name is Haitch. I thought Haitch was his middle name and his full name was Hunner Haitch Helmsmann.
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