Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
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Post by Lila on Dec 10, 2013 15:12:17 GMT -5
A year ago is a year ago. It's still fresh in peoples' minds because outside of right now, that's all she's done; being coupled with assortment of wrestlers for whatever reason. AJ being with Dolph wasn't a midcard story at first. Dolph was aiming for the championship with his feud with Cena. And yes, she has become unlikable/unbearable whether you see it or not because of her booking. Many people didn't mind her at first, but she's just booked in a way that some people start not to like her anymore and her fanbase makes it even worse for some. As I said, she was popular during most of those associations. So if it's still fresh in people's minds, that would be a good thing. Dolph has mid-card written all over him, even if he's going for a title. And no, she hasn't become unlikeable or unbearable. This is verifiable by simply listening to fan reactions to her. She's pretty much the only Diva who gets support. It doesn't make any logical sense that now, when her presence on the roster is smaller than it was during the Punk/Cena/Bryan/Kane/Dolph period, that the fans would suddenly stop liking her. Maybe I phased the fresh part wrong. What I meant is that it's the first thing that comes to someone's mind when you think about her. IE when you about Stone Cold, his feuds with The Rock and McMahon are first to come to mind. As far as the Dolph part, he was being looked at as potential main event material during that feud. As for being unlikable/unbearable, this forum alone shows how she's has been becoming that ever since debuting in 2011. I'm sure most can agree that she is indeed talented, but WWE needs to know she isn't the only girl they have. Another thing I'm sure we can agree on is WWE needing to put as much effort as they put into AJ into the other girls, some of who I feel, wrestling-rise and maybe mic-wise, are on par her.
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Dec 10, 2013 15:15:19 GMT -5
A while ago? It's still relatively fresh in many peoples' minds; you say it like it was 5 years ago when was only a year ago. I'm not arguing that she isn't popular as she is, but she is indeed over-saturated to a lot of people, which in return makes her unlikable or unbearable. But she hasn't been over-saturated for a year now because since that 20th anniversary Raw episode, she's been the definition of a mid carder. Like her placement on the card now isn't that much better than Miz's. People claim she should be de-pushed as she was, yet she is still over and seals a ton of merchandise even with the reduced screen time. She should be getting more screen time due to that. If a diva is consider Mid-Card status, that alone should say she's over-saturated or over hyped if you understand me.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Dec 10, 2013 15:20:58 GMT -5
I think there's a flaw in logic here. Since when do Slammys matter? At best the slammys can be used as part of an angle a la Owen Hart. A slammy show just makes a Raw seem marginally more important than other regular Raws the year around.
I really don't think AJ cares if she won a slammy. She's Diva's champ in the number one wrestling company in the world, knocking boots with the best in the world, and an idol to millions of little girls who once shared the same dream she did. That's much more important.
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Post by WorkingInAColeMine on Dec 10, 2013 15:23:07 GMT -5
I think there's a flaw in logic here. Since when do Slammys matter? At best the slammys can be used as part of an angle a la Owen Hart. A slammy show just makes a Raw seem marginally more important than other regular Raws the year around. Seriously how many weeks will the winner of the Slammy's even be mentioned
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 10, 2013 15:27:18 GMT -5
As I said, she was popular during most of those associations. So if it's still fresh in people's minds, that would be a good thing. Dolph has mid-card written all over him, even if he's going for a title. And no, she hasn't become unlikeable or unbearable. This is verifiable by simply listening to fan reactions to her. She's pretty much the only Diva who gets support. It doesn't make any logical sense that now, when her presence on the roster is smaller than it was during the Punk/Cena/Bryan/Kane/Dolph period, that the fans would suddenly stop liking her. Maybe I phased the fresh part wrong. What I meant is that it's the first thing that comes to someone's mind when you think about her. IE when you about Stone Cold, his feuds with The Rock and McMahon are first to come to mind. As far as the Dolph part, he was being looked at as potential main event material during that feud. As for being unlikable/unbearable, this forum alone shows how she's has been becoming that ever since debuting in 2011. I'm sure most can agree that she is indeed talented, but WWE needs to know she isn't the only girl they have. Another thing I'm sure we can agree on is WWE needing to put as much effort as they put into AJ into the other girls, some of who I feel, wrestling-rise and maybe mic-wise, are on par her. But if the first thing that comes to mind when one thinks of a certain wrestler are storylines that were popular, then that's not a bad thing. I do agree that other Divas need a push, but that greatly depends on which ones really have what it takes to connect with the crowd. As for AJ's fan support, on here it might be annoying to some, but at live shows, it tends to be little girls dressing like their hero. Nothing remotely annoying or anything to warrant a backlash at all.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Dec 10, 2013 15:27:43 GMT -5
But she hasn't been over-saturated for a year now because since that 20th anniversary Raw episode, she's been the definition of a mid carder. Like her placement on the card now isn't that much better than Miz's. People claim she should be de-pushed as she was, yet she is still over and seals a ton of merchandise even with the reduced screen time. She should be getting more screen time due to that. If a diva is consider Mid-Card status, that alone should say she's over-saturated or over hyped if you understand me. But you want the diva's to get more time and the division to get more focus no? The AJ vs Kaitlyn program was the definition of a mid card program. Was that too much exposure for the diva's division? If a diva is mid card status it means A) She's really popular with the crowds even with how the WWE handicaps the divas? B) The WWE has done a shitty job building up the rest of the mid carders so AJ seems like the most appealing option to cheer for than the other guys. Either way I don't see it as a negative for any diva to be a mid card status but you are totally free to disagree
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Dec 10, 2013 15:28:38 GMT -5
I think there's a flaw in logic here. Since when do Slammys matter? At best the slammys can be used as part of an angle a la Owen Hart. A slammy show just makes a Raw seem marginally more important than other regular Raws the year around. Seriously how many weeks will the winner of the Slammy's even be mentioned This week on Total Divas.... I think there's a flaw in logic here. Since when do Slammys matter? At best the slammys can be used as part of an angle a la Owen Hart. A slammy show just makes a Raw seem marginally more important than other regular Raws the year around. I really don't think AJ cares if she won a slammy. She's Diva's champ in the number one wrestling company in the world, knocking boots with the best in the world, and an idol to millions of little girls who once shared the same dream she did. That's much more important. I think most people are arguing that it doesn't feel like it's the fans choice. It smells like it was fixed for the twins to win. Now if they showed the true results and they won, then cool whatever it was a fair vote. But I think most people are upset that about it see the WWE is still stuck in this mindset to push who they want to push and not based the pushes on the fans reaction.
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Lila
El Dandy
Slip N Slide World Champion 1997
Posts: 8,905
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Post by Lila on Dec 10, 2013 15:29:46 GMT -5
I think there's a flaw in logic here. Since when do Slammys matter? At best the slammys can be used as part of an angle a la Owen Hart. A slammy show just makes a Raw seem marginally more important than other regular Raws the year around. I really don't think AJ cares if she won a slammy. She's Diva's champ in the number one wrestling company in the world, knocking boots with the best in the world, and an idol to millions of little girls who once shared the same dream she did. That's much more important. Add in that her loosing is most likely a storyline with Steph and the Bellas with Brie possibly screwing over Bryan as the Authority may say the Total Divas....Divas are what they prefer or something odd like that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 15:42:08 GMT -5
This thread title is truly outrageous.
Truly, truly, truly outrageous.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 15:43:21 GMT -5
#AllBellaEverything
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Dec 10, 2013 15:45:41 GMT -5
Seriously how many weeks will the winner of the Slammy's even be mentioned This week on Total Divas.... I think there's a flaw in logic here. Since when do Slammys matter? At best the slammys can be used as part of an angle a la Owen Hart. A slammy show just makes a Raw seem marginally more important than other regular Raws the year around. I really don't think AJ cares if she won a slammy. She's Diva's champ in the number one wrestling company in the world, knocking boots with the best in the world, and an idol to millions of little girls who once shared the same dream she did. That's much more important. I think most people are arguing that it doesn't feel like it's the fans choice. It smells like it was fixed for the twins to win. Now if they showed the true results and they won, then cool whatever it was a fair vote. But I think most people are upset that about it see the WWE is still stuck in this mindset to push who they want to push and not based the pushes on the fans reaction. You know I get what you're saying. I just think we need perspective about the role of the slammys.
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Lila
El Dandy
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Post by Lila on Dec 10, 2013 15:47:30 GMT -5
Maybe I phased the fresh part wrong. What I meant is that it's the first thing that comes to someone's mind when you think about her. IE when you about Stone Cold, his feuds with The Rock and McMahon are first to come to mind. As far as the Dolph part, he was being looked at as potential main event material during that feud. As for being unlikable/unbearable, this forum alone shows how she's has been becoming that ever since debuting in 2011. I'm sure most can agree that she is indeed talented, but WWE needs to know she isn't the only girl they have. Another thing I'm sure we can agree on is WWE needing to put as much effort as they put into AJ into the other girls, some of who I feel, wrestling-rise and maybe mic-wise, are on par her. But if the first thing that comes to mind when one thinks of a certain wrestler are storylines that were popular, then that's not a bad thing. I do agree that other Divas need a push, but that greatly depends on which ones really have what it takes to connect with the crowd. As for AJ's fan support, on here it might be annoying to some, but at live shows, it tends to be little girls dressing like their hero. Nothing remotely annoying or anything to warrant a backlash at all. Yes, it's good that it comes to mind, but when you keep pushing one girl, at least this is what I've noticed with the girls, over and over again, you're going to get people who will slowly start to dislike the girl. We've seen it with McCool, Mickie, and Trish to an extent. The backlash has to do more with her fans and how they react to someone not being a fan of her or how crazy some are. Obviously, little kids get the exception because they're kids and they're just having a good time. If a diva is consider Mid-Card status, that alone should say she's over-saturated or over hyped if you understand me. But you want the diva's to get more time and the division to get more focus no? The AJ vs Kaitlyn program was the definition of a mid card program. Was that too much exposure for the diva's division? If a diva is mid card status it means A) She's really popular with the crowds even with how the WWE handicaps the divas? B) The WWE has done a shitty job building up the rest of the mid carders so AJ seems like the most appealing option to cheer for than the other guys. Either way I don't see it as a negative for any diva to be a mid card status but you are totally free to disagree No, being mid-card status for a girl is good, but it's only one girl and all the effort is only being put into one girl instead of using said girl to help elevate another or two to the same status. Granted, I think they're trying to do that with the Total Divas, but very badly by not having them talk, thus making it one-sided.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Dec 10, 2013 15:52:55 GMT -5
This week on Total Divas.... I think most people are arguing that it doesn't feel like it's the fans choice. It smells like it was fixed for the twins to win. Now if they showed the true results and they won, then cool whatever it was a fair vote. But I think most people are upset that about it see the WWE is still stuck in this mindset to push who they want to push and not based the pushes on the fans reaction. You know I get what you're saying. I just think we need perspective about the role of the slammys. Hey I'm on a wrestling board instead of studying for my finals so I'm going to be a little more serious abut these topics . But seriously I'm just upset with the WWE seemingly not allowing the fans to vote for who they want to win the slammy. If the WWE wants to make sure the people they want to win, get the trophy just take out fan voting. I don't think people care much for slammys, they care about the whole process around it and what the WWE is seemingly doing.
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Post by WorkingInAColeMine on Dec 10, 2013 15:54:48 GMT -5
This week on Total Divas.... I think most people are arguing that it doesn't feel like it's the fans choice. It smells like it was fixed for the twins to win. Now if they showed the true results and they won, then cool whatever it was a fair vote. But I think most people are upset that about it see the WWE is still stuck in this mindset to push who they want to push and not based the pushes on the fans reaction. You know I get what you're saying. I just think we need perspective about the role of the slammys. Also on the idea that the vast majority of people voting on the WWE App are not the people posting on message boards
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Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 10, 2013 15:57:19 GMT -5
my post mocking her in the diva pics thread got deleted. So she still has the FAN brass on her side
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Hawk Hart
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Post by Hawk Hart on Dec 10, 2013 16:38:30 GMT -5
Yes, because it's so hard to believe that the Divas that they put front and center in title programs, media appearances, and all sorts of other stuff would win a fan vote. It's gotta be rigged since the worker booked to be a total bitch champion most of the year didn't beat the main faces of the division. I'm sorry guys but we're the minority of viewers and your average WWE viewer is voting Bellas over AJ. That's presuming that the people watching Total Divas or whatever C-list publicity event they send the Bellas to will watch RAW, download an app, and vote for the Bellas specifically rather than the other women on that show. If anything, the Total Divas vote should have been split. The total bitch champion has been getting consistent cheers and fan reactions while the supposed super popular faces the Bellas get a reaction like Rob Conway. She's been front and centre in the title program, and when she verbally killed the Total Divas, the fans cheered. You're presuming that all the fans everywhere share your same affinity for AJ. I hate to burst your bubble but nothing could be further from the truth if only for the basic reason of booking. AJ is a bitch in kayfabe, plain and simple, she's a tiny and annoying harpy that promos about how she's supposedly the superior Diva to all the rest, even going so far as to say that none of them were in her league (the hilarity of that is compounded when you remember that Natalya f***ing Neidhart is one the Divas she was referring to), while hiding behind Tamina. When you consider that the majority of people that actually took the time to vote for the Slammys were likely children or people that haven't exactly caught on the nature of the business and get a lot of votes for faces. Not just the Bellas but for faces in general. Stop acting like this is a personal slap in the face because people don't share the same fondness for the Diva that, honestly outside of the Bellas and maybe Natty, has had the most solid Diva push we've seen in a long time. Operating under the idea that this is a legit vote, and we really have no reason to believe otherwise, it says more about AJ's ability to connect than anything when one of the most pushed and actually very talented with one of the longer, most focused on Diva's Title runs in recent memory can't win the fans over for a vote for a fake trophy, how can she carry the division?
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SEAN CARLESS
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Dec 10, 2013 17:13:23 GMT -5
That's presuming that the people watching Total Divas or whatever C-list publicity event they send the Bellas to will watch RAW, download an app, and vote for the Bellas specifically rather than the other women on that show. If anything, the Total Divas vote should have been split. The total bitch champion has been getting consistent cheers and fan reactions while the supposed super popular faces the Bellas get a reaction like Rob Conway. She's been front and centre in the title program, and when she verbally killed the Total Divas, the fans cheered. You're presuming that all the fans everywhere share your same affinity for AJ. I hate to burst your bubble but nothing could be further from the truth if only for the basic reason of booking. AJ is a bitch in kayfabe, plain and simple, she's a tiny and annoying harpy that promos about how she's supposedly the superior Diva to all the rest, even going so far as to say that none of them were in her league (the hilarity of that is compounded when you remember that Natalya f***ing Neidhart is one the Divas she was referring to), while hiding behind Tamina. When you consider that the majority of people that actually took the time to vote for the Slammys were likely children or people that haven't exactly caught on the nature of the business and get a lot of votes for faces. Not just the Bellas but for faces in general. Stop acting like this is a personal slap in the face because people don't share the same fondness for the Diva that, honestly outside of the Bellas and maybe Natty, has had the most solid Diva push we've seen in a long time. Operating under the idea that this is a legit vote, and we really have no reason to believe otherwise, it says more about AJ's ability to connect than anything when one of the most pushed and actually very talented with one of the longer, most focused on Diva's Title runs in recent memory can't win the fans over for a vote for a fake trophy, how can she carry the division? There's more evidence to support her being popular, than not. There's no quantifiable numbers that prove the Bellas are anymore popular or even remotely equal. AJ moves more merchandise than 75% of the male roster and all of the females. She gets cheered against every diva she's wrestled, despite being the "heel" in all of the angles -- and the Bellas get little to no reaction. Any other supposed "proof" to the contrary that there's some phantom group of people out there coming out of the woodwork for the Bellas (who apparently are unrepresented in every televised aspect of the company and merchandising monies) is junk science. I can't speak for everyone, and I'm not even an AJ fan really, but this whole "issue --and I use that term loosely -- is not because she deserved it --even though kayfabe-wise she did-- but rather that there seems a distinct probability that WWE conned voters into thinking they're votes mattered, only to do what they wanted anyway. The "issue" is the potential prospect of the company lying to its fanbase and giving them the illusion that they had a choice. And that, if true, is wrong. That said, this whole thread seems to have devolved into a AJ superfan vs AJ detractor pissing contest. One side wants their girl to be undisputedly crowned, whilst the other side, out of spite maybe, wants to see her fanbase upset or disappointed because they personally don't see the hype. And therein, there's a few people who are just calling a spade a spade and questioning the logic of the result. Not because it matters, or is even absolute, but because its possible.
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Post by Richard on Dec 10, 2013 17:17:09 GMT -5
That said, this whole thread seems to have devolved into a AJ superfan vs AJ detractor pissing contest. One side wants their girl to be undisputedly crowned, whilst the other side, out of spite maybe, wants to see her fanbase upset or disappointed because they personally don't see the hype. Basically every AJ thread ever.
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Post by WorkingInAColeMine on Dec 10, 2013 17:17:49 GMT -5
Slammys are serious business
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 17:34:59 GMT -5
Maybe it's the fault of the writers for not building an equal opponent, but I just haven't seen anything from AJ's character that makes me think her character is as great as the hype she receives. Given the generally abysmal state of the Divas division, AJ rarely if ever gets an opportunity to even have a story, to say nothing of a quality story that she can be a memorable part of. In my opinion, though, when she's actually gotten an opportunity like that, she's done very well. See: her pipebomb promo earlier this year; her promos and subsequent Payback match against Kaitlyn, which was one of the best PPV women's matches in years; her promo after last year's TLC; or pretty much all of her involvement in last year's Punk/Bryan feud for examples of memorable moments.
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