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Post by The Stranger on Apr 20, 2014 13:18:55 GMT -5
Good bump there, pal.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 13:25:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't be shocked if everything said in that video was true. HBK seems like a huge douche. I agree, buddy.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Apr 20, 2014 13:29:33 GMT -5
At a pinch I could see Bret staying with WWF therefore not having his career ended by Goldberg, and maybe Owen never becoming the Blue Blazer. Can you clarify the rest? Kind of simply, actually: given the atmosphere at WCW, the Radicalz, still itching to leave, would have had both Bret and Owen getting the locker room behind getting them over to WWE, with possibly better terms than were given. With Benoit and Guerrero in WWF/E with both Bret and Owen, it is possible that interventions might have taken place to keep Guerrero away from the bottle and to keep Benoit from beating his own head in during every. blessed. match. if Vince had stuck with Bret there might not have been a WWF for the Radicalz to jump to. Bret hated the Attitude Era stuff that brought WWF back from the brink and since I believe his big contract included a spot on the creative team he'd have fought it tooth and nail
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Apr 20, 2014 13:38:00 GMT -5
Well, with a thread about Bret's boner it only seems fitting there be one about HBK's asshole.
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Post by audiencewatching on Apr 20, 2014 14:01:33 GMT -5
Ultimately do I care?
A bunch of lower mid carders telling me Shawns a bad person... and?
I enjoyed Shawns wrestling and story telling.
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Post by camsamurai06 on Apr 20, 2014 14:31:52 GMT -5
Honestly, Shawn deserved none of the success he's garnered. He was never anything special as a wrestler, to me, and his reputation leaves a lot to be desired. He's anything but a class act. I think the WWF/E would be better off without him. I think we're all better off not reading jealous flame bait like this from someone not remotely skilled in ring work whatsoever Shawn's accomplished things you never will keyboard cat
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Post by angryfan on Apr 20, 2014 14:42:07 GMT -5
Stepping in here, just a simple reminder. Keep personal shots out. Not sure why this was bumped, but neither flame baiting, or responding to any alleged bait with insults, is kosher. Thank you in advance.
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Post by camsamurai06 on Apr 20, 2014 15:01:07 GMT -5
Sorry...just seeing years of great memories watching great matches from a good performer belittled because someone doesnt rate the guy tends to get on my tits. It's one thing to say a guy may be overrated, but to suggest the WWF/WWE is better off without his legacy is outright childish bollocks
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Apr 20, 2014 15:05:12 GMT -5
Hearing Gregory Helms talking about wanting to kick someone's ass is hilarious.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
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Post by dav on Apr 20, 2014 15:39:10 GMT -5
Sorry...just seeing years of great memories watching great matches from a good performer belittled because someone doesnt rate the guy tends to get on my tits. It's one thing to say a guy may be overrated, but to suggest the WWF/WWE is better off without his legacy is outright childish bollocks Maybe not his legacy but he certainly wasn't all that successful as a Champion beyond having good matches. He wasn't much of a draw at all.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Apr 20, 2014 18:40:33 GMT -5
Sorry...just seeing years of great memories watching great matches from a good performer belittled because someone doesnt rate the guy tends to get on my tits. It's one thing to say a guy may be overrated, but to suggest the WWF/WWE is better off without his legacy is outright childish bollocks Maybe not his legacy but he certainly wasn't all that successful as a Champion beyond having good matches. He wasn't much of a draw at all. And going into 1995/96 were there a lot of other options? WWF had already invested enough time in Shawn to give him a shot. Let's not act like he was this main event hog. I guess they should have stuck with Bret, especially given that he took time off right after dropping the title.
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Post by angryfan on Apr 20, 2014 18:51:56 GMT -5
Honestly, Shawn was one of the big names that was working for them. Diesel was over but when he left we had what options? A pre-Stone Cold Ring Master, Savio Vega in his, um, prime-ish-whatever, and...um...Ron Simmons feuding with Ahmed Johnson. Love Ron, think he could have been money for them had they, you know, not gone "What if we took the Nation of Islam, took away any substance, and then we take Ron Simmons who we won't acknowledge any of his history and we'll put him in this goofy ass blue helmet and I'm telling you, it's money".
Shawn had his issues, Shawn and his buddies submarined some people for no reason at all. I am a critic of Shane Douglas but they did him wrong and no reason I've heard makes sense.
Basically, at the time you had a group of guys, each of them with some amazing talent (Nash had and still has charisma, Hall was a phenomenal worker and charismatic, HBK can work and can talk, and Waltman could do either the babyface in peril or the Tully Blanchard heel that people wanted to see get murdered, at least for a while), who saw the company as their playground. Not a first, not a last. People can and do change, but at the time you had the perfect storm of talented guys, a company losing money, and the talented tight-knit group having the run of the asylum.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
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Post by dav on Apr 20, 2014 18:51:53 GMT -5
Maybe not his legacy but he certainly wasn't all that successful as a Champion beyond having good matches. He wasn't much of a draw at all. And going into 1995/96 were there a lot of other options? WWF had already invested enough time in Shawn to give him a shot. Let's not act like he was this main event hog. I guess they should have stuck with Bret, especially given that he took time off right after dropping the title. There were Undertaker, Vader and Sid as potential Champions. Bret, when he did return, was another option to boot. At the very least, the stripper gimmick could have been dropped for Shawn.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Apr 20, 2014 19:01:36 GMT -5
And going into 1995/96 were there a lot of other options? WWF had already invested enough time in Shawn to give him a shot. Let's not act like he was this main event hog. I guess they should have stuck with Bret, especially given that he took time off right after dropping the title. There were Undertaker, Vader and Sid as potential Champions. Bret, when he did return, was another option to boot. At the very least, the stripper gimmick could have been dropped for Shawn. I agree on the last part, but there is absolutely no proof that Vader was a US draw in 1996. Sid wasn't reliable and Undertaker was a novelty more than someone they wanted to put the title on. You need other babyface options and none of those work. Razor was winding down and Diesel was a bust. Michaels was the smart option given the circumstances, it could have been a lot worse.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,037
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Post by dav on Apr 20, 2014 19:18:01 GMT -5
There were Undertaker, Vader and Sid as potential Champions. Bret, when he did return, was another option to boot. At the very least, the stripper gimmick could have been dropped for Shawn. I agree on the last part, but there is absolutely no proof that Vader was a US draw in 1996. Sid wasn't reliable and Undertaker was a novelty more than someone they wanted to put the title on. You need other babyface options and none of those work. Razor was winding down and Diesel was a bust. Michaels was the smart option given the circumstances, it could have been a lot worse. Oddly enough, Vader had one of the highest rated segments for Clash of Champions in '93 when he was Champion against Bulldog, it fluctuated a fair bit afterwards but there seemed to be an interest. I think that Vader could have had a chance as the Monster Heel, but when you've got Henry Godwinn kicking out of his finisher on a random Raw, he wasn't really given the full support he could have gotten. Undertaker was probably the better option in all honesty. Novelty or not, he was massively over and you saw the rise of guys like Mankind, Goldust, Vader and Sid in the background, giving him plenty to work with. If you did tweak things enough to keep the Outsiders, not neutering Diesel's character would have done everyone a lot of good.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 19:20:15 GMT -5
Gregory Helms grievance basically boils down to:
"WEH, SHAWN WON'T BE FRIENDS WITH ME"
All kidding aside, doesn't the story go that Shawn was sitting in on a backstage meeting and all the stooges were bitching and complaining about CM Punk to Mcmhaon and Shawn said "instead of complaining about the guy why dont you do your job and book him to do something" or words to that effect.
Thats one sign of Shawn doing good to balance out all the negativity in this thread, not that I'm saying alot of these things aren't warranted, just thought I'd throw something from the other side of the coin out there.
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Post by ThereIsNoAbsurdistOnlyZuul on Apr 20, 2014 19:28:41 GMT -5
Well, with a thread about Bret's boner it only seems fitting there be one about HBK's asshole. Ever look at something, and really want to naysay it, but the logic seems flawless? I am having that moment right now.
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Post by Society of the Spectacle on Apr 20, 2014 20:18:41 GMT -5
Even as a lifelong HBK fan, I know he has/had tremendous faults. Hurricane's tirade was kind of silly to me though, and in terms of the "cussing Jericho" incident he brought up a couple times on there, I was under the impression that Michaels had cussed out Jericho because during their feud, Jericho had accidentally popped Shawn's wife with a pulled punch during an angle. Sure those sorts of things happen, but if this was indeed the case, I could see why Michaels would be angry with Jericho backstage about it. Hurricane was using the incident against Michaels when he didn't really supply the context of why Michaels was angry. It seemed like he was just using the incident as an example of Michaels' perceived hypocrisy.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Apr 20, 2014 23:30:35 GMT -5
There were Undertaker, Vader and Sid as potential Champions. Bret, when he did return, was another option to boot. At the very least, the stripper gimmick could have been dropped for Shawn. I agree on the last part, but there is absolutely no proof that Vader was a US draw in 1996. Sid wasn't reliable and Undertaker was a novelty more than someone they wanted to put the title on. You need other babyface options and none of those work. Razor was winding down and Diesel was a bust. Michaels was the smart option given the circumstances, it could have been a lot worse. I think Undertaker absolutely could have worked at least in the short-term (meaning under a year or so which was about how long Michaels was on top with the boyhood dream schtick). Even back then Taker was much more than a novelty. Not that I'm even against Michaels' reign back then. As a 10 year old kid at the time I know I enjoyed it.
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Post by onestepplan on Apr 21, 2014 1:00:32 GMT -5
I haven't heard a bad thing about Michaels from people who've interacted with him since his return, besides Helms, whose claims are tenuous at best. What I have heard are people who Michaels screwed in the 90s talking about how he seems like a genuinely changed person. Bret Hart and Ahmed Johnson, I remember specifically, but I believe there's more. People can change for the better.
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