mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Dec 31, 2013 12:23:54 GMT -5
There seems to be almost a carrot and stick mentality here involving Daniel Bryan's booking. They'll give his extremely die hard fans moments here and there, like a promising NXT run with a perfect foil, the US title, MitB, a WHC run, and glimpses of main event stardom. But that will often be accompanied by booking that seems to almost be sabotage in nature, like losing streaks, go nowhere feuds, losing streaks again, 18 seconds, and being screwed by the Authority time and time again with no payoff in sight. Yet, his fanbase responds with more and more pushback, resulting in the guy getting even more over and over despite conventional logic saying it should go the other way. Yes, there is a lot of pessimism with the current turn of events involving the Wyatt family, but I'd say it's what we are conditioned to expect at this point. before CM Punk had his current reign he couldn't beat Rey Mysterio or Big Show despite three on 1 odds. He couldn't beat Randy Orton despite five on one odds, that encompasses losing streaks, go nowhere feuds
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Bang Bang Bart
Ozymandius
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 31, 2013 12:24:50 GMT -5
He also had the best winning record out of anyone else in WWE for televised events (68-32-3). Clearly, that means he's being berried.
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Blindkarevik
Grimlock
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Post by Blindkarevik on Dec 31, 2013 12:30:02 GMT -5
I no longer have cable, and even when I did... I really haven't watched WWE in months. I still keep up with what's going on through the forums and if everyone's talking about a specific moment or match, I'll try to look up a video. That said, I still get a huge smile on my face when I see the entire crowed reacting to Bryan. It really reminds me of The Rock or Steve Austin, just for the PG-Era. I mean that in how The Rock and Austin were complete assholes, but were assholes to people who deserved it (heels). You'd feel a sense of empowerment cheering for them, but because they had built themselves up to be so unstoppable... you never really worried about them.
Bryan actually has actually won the fans hearts. They LOVE him. Austin and The Rock were at the top, they'd very seldom lose, so it was the safe bet to cheer for.... plus they usually made the heels look foolish more often than not. Bryan is the underdog who is constantly entertaining and has amazing matches.... he is vulnerable, he isn't unstoppable at all. Hell, he lost to the Wyatts... he gave in to the Wyatts. It wasn't a stipulation saying "If you lose, you join us." He surrendered...granted, I'm sure it's leading to a double-cross where turns out he was just trying to lure the Wyatts into a false sense of security... but, what was portrayed is he was not forced into this. He was beaten into submission, he's not doing it for the good of anybody, he just knows he's been beaten and it's time to give in. That wouldn't work for a Cena, that wouldn't work for Orton, Austin, The Rock.... the closest person it worked for was HBK when he was doing the indentured servitude angle with JBL. But even then, it was "I'm broke, I have to do this for my family." .... Bryan just did it because he couldn't fight any longer. He's sympathetic, and rather than the fans EXPECTING him to win.. they genuinely want him to win and want good things to happen for him.
It's really a new paradigm in a top face. Wrestling has always been about a roster of good hand wrestlers, a few super-villians and one or two superheroes that might lose one day but you are sure they will come back and win in the end. You'll have Dusty Rhodes come in and thrash all the Four Horsemen, you'll have Hogan slamming Earthquake, you'll have Luger slamming Yokozuna, Austin putting one over on McMahon, Sting destroying the NWO by himself. But Bryan is human, he isn't physically better than anybody... but in the end, its his heart that wins out.
Realistically, Bryan is what Rey Mysterio was always told to be. "Oh, Mysterio's small.. but he has HEART!" .... of course, fans would hear that and just say, "Yeah, whatever.. do more flippy moves." When Bryan's on fire, he's on fire. He can whip the crowd into a frenzy, and it's because people care about him, they want him to succeed, and that's where all this lies.
To be honest, he's the most pure hero character we've had since Bret Hart.
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Post by BatPunk on Dec 31, 2013 12:38:27 GMT -5
No one should be worried about Daniel Bryan. He's going to be just fine. Last night his story was the MAIN EVENT of the show. WWE could have went with a couple of options. The Shield's lead in to an immanent break up vs Punk. Lesnar returning and destroying Mark Henry. Both could have ended the show and brought as much drama to their stories.
But WWE went with Bryan because he's the biggest thing going at the moment. The crowd are still going to chant for him during this story because he's gone from being an underdog, to getting some real sympathy because he feels that his only option to get the WWE Title is to align himself with the Wyatt's who are proving to him week in and week out how if you want something, you go out and get it.
This is a hot angle and Bryan is good enough that even if it tanks, he'll still come out looking like a million bucks and the true star that he is. You can't deny his star quality!
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Capt Lunatic
Unicron
Buttah in mah ass, lollipops in mah mouth
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Dec 31, 2013 12:50:25 GMT -5
You know who's not worried about Daniel Bryan? Daniel Bryan.
He's making the best money of his career. He's getting the best tail of his life. I have him as champion in WWE2k14.
If he were fired tomorrow, he would have more bookings than a Detroit police station.
DB will be fine no matter where his storylines go.
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Post by The Masked Heel WAS WRONG on Dec 31, 2013 12:57:33 GMT -5
Because some people expect Bryan to win every match, hold every title, and make out with every Diva on camera at the same time. If they do anything different with the character, it is a burial and/or those "marks" in the audience will stop caring about him.
You know, just like people stopped caring about that CM Punk fella.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
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Post by Sparkybob on Dec 31, 2013 13:11:03 GMT -5
He's got the most valuable thing in wrestling, plenty of tv time.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 31, 2013 13:30:58 GMT -5
Hit Girl - curious that you think WWE is trying to diffuse Bryan's momentum. What evidence points you towards this? He's been in high profile storylines for most of his WWE career, and has been a solid upper midcarder/main eventer since cashing in Money in the Bank. Bryan was the first guy to beat the Shield, which was HUGE. He's also beaten both Orton and Cena clean as a sheet, something I don't think anyone else on the active roster has done outside of MAYBE Kane. When was the last time he lost a match that wasn't due to interference or being outnumbered? The storyline right now is exactly that the Authority doesn't want him as champ, but that's not reality in my opinion. I do think it's an excellent storyline because it taps into some of those fears and beliefs, though. The evidence is on the screen. High profile doesn't necessarily mean good. Plenty of terrible storylines which have damaged careers have been high profile. The Authority doesn't want him as champ because they regard him as a second rater, and WWE have booked their on-screen management to be correct. Even if this whole Wyatt stuff is part of a larger storyline, it's all been so meandering and directionless that it's diluted his momentum. You have to strike when the iron is hot. WWE waits until the iron is cold and has been already turned into a chamber pot.
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Post by Society of the Spectacle on Dec 31, 2013 13:52:17 GMT -5
From casual fans to hardcore, long term wrestling fans, Daniel Bryan has caught on like nobody else in years. And the simple fact is NOBODY seems to get people talking as much as him. Over the past few years, we've seen a lot of things happen to Bryan, from joining WWE as a contestant on NXT to his current place on the roster. And throughout it all, there's seems to be this undercurrent of pessimism that runs online. From the day he was hired by WWE, there were comments like "He'll be misused and fired.". Everyone assumed the firing after the tie incident was the end. Everyone figured his losing streak before and while holding MitB would lead to him being fired. Everyone assumed he would lose the briefcase. 18 seconds would push him down the card. Hell No would be a goofy tag team and ruin him. The "weak link" storyline was to humble and bury him. Facing Cena would be a one-off PPV appearance and he'd lose. And yet, he's come out on top every single time. Now we're getting comments like "They definitely don't see him as a top guy." and "This is just to feed another heel to Cena.". What will it take for people to be optimistic? And why do so many people online automatically jump to the worst possible conclusion with Bryan? Not even Punk gets this kind of pessimism associated with him. I think the reason is that fans even if they are not smarks, they see the hallmarks of how WWE builds and pushes a future star. When Cena debuted by almost beating Angle, sure smarks were going, "Oh look, it's Prototype from OVW, guess they're going to push the jacked up muscle-head" but the common fan was also probably going, "Wow, this guy must be the real deal,he almost beat Kurt Angle." Either way, both crowds had a inclination Cena was going to be player in WWE. I do think fans are inherently pessimistic about Bryan because they have ingrained in the their heads that people of Bryan's size will never succeed at the highest level or will be prevented from doing so. People like Guerrerro, Mysterio, and others have proven that wrong before though. Also another ingrained idea is that WWE hates creations that don't have their stamp. People assume Bryan's indy success counts against him with WWE, and maybe there is some credence there (the NXT losing streak was just kind of bizarre)still Bryan has persevered. So this paranoia, combined with the fact that someone with such an organic and obvious crowd reaction hasn't been seen in while just makes the whole situation seem so foreign. The main jist of this post however, in reference to the question posed: The reason there is so much paranoia and tension in response to Bryan's booking, even though there are many reasons not to be, is because Bryan's rise is in many ways so unprecedented that it is almost hard to believe. Basically, if WWE is genuine in how carefully they are booking Bryan, it shows that they have so much faith in him and his ability to be a star that they really do see him as the true heir to John Cena. For Bryan fans to believe that this long slow burn to finally conquer Triple H and the authority is going to end satisfactorily, they have to believe that WWE is dead set on making Bryan their new guy. Many saw summer as the best time to do this, but clearly WWE did not. Basically, the "wait and see" crowd are suggesting that something even bigger awaits Bryan in the coming months. That very well may be true, and if it is, it might be one of the most amazing and wonderful moments in the history of WWE. It would basically have to be to make any semblance of sense. If Bryan does not beat the Authority, he's a one minute clip on "The Authority DVD" as one of the many who tried and failed whereas if he does, "Bryan v.s. The Authority" is the main section of the future Best of Daniel Bryan DVDs. See what I'm saying? Bryan is at a rare moment in history where he is getting basically the loudest and most passionate reactions at a time when WWE is making lots of changes behind the scenes. This is a very exciting time for fans of every shade, even if that excitement is nerve-wracking for some. Bryan fans, like any other fans, want to see their guy succeed. Since some more smark-tinted fans have become some jaded and pessimistic about WWE's booking, I don't think they can believe that WWE sees the same things in Bryan that they see. But obviously WWE does. So though it might get annoying to see people who enjoy Bryan's work get so worked up about his booking, I think it is based on the fact that they want to see him succeed, especially since now he is in a position (crowds going insane for him, etc.) to do so. Everyone can point to a bunch of times where "wait and see" worked and where it didn't, and basically both sides are right. However, what it comes down to is that no one in recent memory has had as wild a ride as Bryan has in terms of booking. He has come out the better from it each time. However, now at this moment, when it seems almost stupid not to shoot Bryan into the stratosphere, this is the point when it gets most tense because if you think about it, an angle of this nature could potentially not only make Bryan a bigger star, but a WWE legend. Not a mainstream star, but a wrestling legend in WWE,the biggest wrestling company of all time. That, above title reigns or winning streaks, or anything else, is what Bryan fans want. And a big angle such as this one, if handled right, could give that to them.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 31, 2013 14:22:28 GMT -5
The old "Bryan's chant is more over than he is" argument. Because all those times fans were chanting "DANIEL BRYAN," they were really chanting "MASON RYAN!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 14:25:38 GMT -5
He's getting the best tail of his life. He used to date Sara Del Ray, so I'm not sure about that. Dem Thighs.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 31, 2013 14:30:08 GMT -5
Because some people expect Bryan to win every match, hold every title, and make out with every Diva on camera at the same time. If they do anything different with the character, it is a burial and/or those "marks" in the audience will stop caring about him. You know, just like people stopped caring about that CM Punk fella. You know which fans are the most annoying? Those who want Bryan to be booked clearly, competently, and logically without ever wanting to have him go own a Goldberg-esque tear.
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Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Sam Punk on Dec 31, 2013 15:57:28 GMT -5
I'm not worried. {Spoiler}
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Dec 31, 2013 16:04:22 GMT -5
I think the major part of the worry is that its starting to become wrestlemania season. Its still early to tell, but I think people are thinking that he won't be featured in a major main event match, when this is the year that they should do it. It shows that they aren't invested in him, and only will commit when its in lieu of part-timers.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 31, 2013 16:14:12 GMT -5
He'll be at Wrestlemania, but lost in the mix somewhere while they focus on Cena, Lesnar, Undertaker, Batista, and of course HHH
Don't be surprised if Punk and Orton end up doing very little too.
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Post by sybaku on Dec 31, 2013 16:29:12 GMT -5
We are worried because a month from now we don't want to see Bryan and the Wyatt family losing a 4 on one handicap match to Brock or Batista or whoever else they trot out to pop buy rates. And it's going to happen, I've been on the wait and see side for a long time but Bryan is done, he's going to go heel, he's going to lose momentum and next year this time we will all be saying "what if" as Bryan jobs to Cena clean in 3 mins.
Pessimistic? Absolutely but the WWE has trained me to be.
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paywindah
Dennis Stamp
He's goin' to da paywindah here on da muddaship TBS.
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Post by paywindah on Dec 31, 2013 16:59:18 GMT -5
It sends an awful message to the wrestlers when guys like Bryan, Ziggler, Ryder, etc... get themselves massively over, but because they weren't "supposed" to get over, Vince cuts them off at the knees time and time again. When the fans chant for someone not even involved in your "most important match in 50 years", why not make some changes instead of forging ahead with your original, predictable booking plans which lead to abysmal PPV buyrates and declining ratings.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 17:23:17 GMT -5
He inspires a certain devotion among fans, and this segment of fans is also paranoid about having their guy get f***ed over. He hasn't gotten that title win that is the logical conclusion of his story arc that started in late spring/early summer. Also Ryback.
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nonrev
Don Corleone
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Post by nonrev on Dec 31, 2013 17:50:30 GMT -5
Just want to share my thoughts as a passionate Bryan fan during these time periods. And throughout it all, there's seems to be this undercurrent of pessimism that runs online. From the day he was hired by WWE, there were comments like "He'll be misused and fired.". It seems almost from the beginning of NXT in 2010 Daniel Bryan was perceived by the Authority of the WWE as being sub-par/B+ He got a storyline of never winning a match against anyone and was the first guy eliminated from the competition. And he was fired. He was the scape goat for the sponsors when he basically did what he was told to do by his bosses. He had previously been fired for doing his job even when he was in a hot angle. I don't really remember anyone saying he would get fired while holding MitB. People were merely confused why the MitB winner was jobbing to everyone, including the 0-12 vs Hornswoggle, Chavo Guerrero. People were baffled why they made the out of nowhere #1 contender lose every match. I was hoping Bryan would cash in at Mania like he promised. Wins and losses do matter, and holding the MitB is not a guarantee that the WWE has any title plans for a wrestler (see Sandow) I honestly think it would have if not for the fans getting pissed and revolting during Wrestlemania and on raw the next night. Before Henry got hurt the original plan was Henry vs Sheamus for the title. Sheamus was designed to be the true new awesome babyface emerging from Wrestlemania, but unfortunately the WWE misjudged the backlash 18 seconds would have on him. It was weird and the team seemed to exist to get Bryan away from any other main-eventers that were less popular than him (which after 18 seconds was pretty much all of them IMO) They had his extremely marketable catchphrase and fans goings nuts over it and then made him angry and refuse to do it and merely be angry all the time. The time to run with Bryan was the day after Wrestlemania 28. After his string of shots against Sheamus and Punk he went into the midcard, which seemed baffling as he seemed to be far too popular to be in the midcard. During this time he was taking all the pins in his tag-team. At the time I wasn't complaining because they were amazing matches against the Shield. Fans were pissed about it because from day 1 in NXT we were told how much of a nerd/dork/loser Daniel Bryan is, and then proceed to see him lose every match proving the commentator correct. We saw this storyline come up again with similar themes and we groaned. It payed off in the end but I still am confused as to why defeating the unbeatable Shield happened on a random Smackdown. Which was exactly the plan! (if you believe Meltzer) The match was designed to give Cena a "classic match" to showcase how great of a wrestler he was. It was only when Cena's elbow absolutely required surgery that the finish changed. I didn't mind the first pedigree and Orton cashing in. I got annoyed when the following night Bryan again got beat up and destroyed after being put down verbally getting no retribution at all. And then the same thing happened nigh every Monday night for the next 12 weeks. When we thought he finally did get retribution (the title) it was taken away from him. I believe they hurt any payoff Bryan might ever get from this angle because they cried wolf too many times and fans will become jaded thinking that whatever gains Bryan achieves won't matter as history will just repeat itself and he'll be back to getting the heels over, so the true babyfaces will get the rub off of beating the super-heels. They used Bryan's popularity to get HHH and Orton over as the new horrible heels of the WWE. The person now currently feuding with Orton (on the road to Wrestlemania) is John Cena. The raw prior to TLC fans in the arena wanted Bryan to fight for the title and once again cheered for Bryan over any other former/current champion in the ring, to the point where Cena had to ad-lib to acknowledge this fact to get the fans back on his side. Meltzer spoilers ahead/// {Spoiler}Spoiler We also have rumors of the possible mania match of Bray Wyatt vs John Cena, which could lead us to conclude that they are indeed once again using Bryan to build up a heel to feed to Cena. We see constant themes reemerging during Bryan's WWE run and it is frustrating when the chase for revenge/redemption is constantly prolonged with no end in site. The reason for the pessimism is that it has become a lot less disappointing to have low expectations and be disappointed than have high expectations and be disappointed. The WWE is using their own former misguided thinking that Bryan will never be anything special (Vince's own thoughts which he later admitted was wrong) and incorporating that into the Authority storyline. I believe they do see Bryan as one of their top main-eventers. The good intentions are there, but the execution is what worries us.
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Juice
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Post by Juice on Dec 31, 2013 18:01:10 GMT -5
WWE is to blme for the way they booked title changes over the last 12 years. So many undeserving characters have haled the title, that when a guy like BRyan doesn't get a decent "he is the man" push that its assumed they dont have faith in the performer. Or yaknow Cena yadda yadda yadda.
I felt the same way about another guy, CM Punk. I was wrong then and were probably wrong now. I'm sure in a few years Bryan will be given everything Punk has been given since 2011 and more
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