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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 1, 2014 15:29:25 GMT -5
In my opinion Dolph Ziggler thinks he's alot better than he actually is. You don't have the it factor Dolph if you did you would be main event by now. If your main attribute is selling well and making other people look good and that attribute out weighs your others, then you will be midcard for life by default. That is his main attribute, but I still think he's better than that. Dolph is so good at making other people look good that they pushed him up the card to make higher profile stars look good. Dolph is good enough to at least be "the guy who works with the guy who draws money." If Dolph has to be stuck in the midcard he should be the guy on top of it. They should let him have the Intercontinental Title and use what cred he has to give that title a rub.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 1, 2014 15:30:40 GMT -5
Where did they get that interviewer? Did they order him from a catalogue? You can order a Tom Phillips from a catalog? Clothes are optional right?
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Post by Mc Mc Mannequin on Feb 1, 2014 15:36:07 GMT -5
In my opinion Dolph Ziggler thinks he's alot better than he actually is. You don't have the it factor Dolph if you did you would be main event by now. If your main attribute is selling well and making other people look good and that attribute out weighs your others, then you will be midcard for life by default. That is his main attribute, but I still think he's better than that. Dolph is so good at making other people look good that they pushed him up the card to make higher profile stars look good. Dolph is good enough to at least be "the guy who works with the guy who draws money." If Dolph has to be stuck in the midcard he should be the guy on top of it. They should let him have the Intercontinental Title and use what cred he has to give that title a rub. Yeah I agree with that.
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StuntGranny®
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Not Actually a Granny
Posts: 16,099
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Post by StuntGranny® on Feb 1, 2014 16:06:21 GMT -5
I just watched this and it's insane that they didn't put this on television. This was one hell of a promo and honestly made me somewhat of a Dolph Ziggler fan.
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Post by hossfan on Feb 1, 2014 16:10:38 GMT -5
So I'm expected to root for a guy who throws matches and then screams like a banshee about it backstage? I'm suggesting a potential interpretation of the promo. My interpretation implies no action on your part, nor any expectations of you on my part. Its a weak interpretation that doesn't help Ziggler in any way, shape, or form. If we're supposed to feel sympathy for him in storyline, implying he's tanking his matches is a terrible way to do it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2014 16:15:10 GMT -5
With time this promo will be known as the original App Bomb.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2014 16:39:06 GMT -5
It's the same people who are fans of Orton, bash Bryan, and defend the WWE at all costs. They are also the people who laughed at DX's lame jokes in 2008, and literally get mad at crowds if they cheer more for Bryan than Batista. One of the guys who did not like the promo had 11 posts about how the Royal Rumble crowd "ruined the PPV" for him and other WWE "loyalists". I mean WTH is that? There are people on here who actually think paying fans should act a certain way I didn't like the promo one bit. Worked shoots work better when there is a logical kayfabe interpretation present. All this was is a guy who can't really talk to save his life shouting and complaining because whilst being decent at what he does he's not good enough to take it to a higher level Compared to the Steve Austin promo from the original ECW, Joey Styles's promo a few years back, the pipebomb and the pre Survivor Series heyman promo on Vince this one is laughably bad And by the way I can't stand DX. I don't give a shit about Batista one bit or Brock Lesnar for that matter (or anyone from 2003 to around 2008 which was the worse time period in WWE history) I think crowds should chant whatever the f*** they want So Please don't generalise and group people based on one opinion of theirs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2014 16:42:30 GMT -5
I think some people are taking this way too seriously. It's just a brief interview that was an app. exclusive. Nothing more, nothing less. To get all pissy and berate Dolph over this is just silly.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 1, 2014 16:44:14 GMT -5
It's a promo written specifically for the same core fanbase who see Bryan as misused and Punk as having legit gripes. It's not for John Q. Mouthbreather on RAW. It's meant to rile up that aforementioned fanbase and build heat toward "the evil corporation" losing in the end. Or at least that would be the hope. Never know with WWE. This is the same company after all amidst Occupy Wall Street that tried to lampoon that movement by portraying their talent as being ungrateful and the "haves" and rich elites as being "for the people". I'm not sure giving a wrestler an actual "OWS" gimmick would get over, though. Should have been given to Punk
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 1, 2014 16:54:54 GMT -5
It's the same people who are fans of Orton, bash Bryan, and defend the WWE at all costs. They are also the people who laughed at DX's lame jokes in 2008, and literally get mad at crowds if they cheer more for Bryan than Batista. One of the guys who did not like the promo had 11 posts about how the Royal Rumble crowd "ruined the PPV" for him and other WWE "loyalists". I mean WTH is that? There are people on here who actually think paying fans should act a certain way I didn't like the promo one bit. Worked shoots work better when there is a logical kayfabe interpretation present. All this was is a guy who can't really talk to save his life shouting and complaining because whilst being decent at what he does he's not good enough to take it to a higher level Compared to the Steve Austin promo from the original ECW, Joey Styles's promo a few years back, the pipebomb and the pre Survivor Series heyman promo on Vince this one is laughably bad And by the way I can't stand DX. I don't give a shit about Batista one bit or Brock Lesnar for that matter (or anyone from 2003 to around 2008 which was the worse time period in WWE history) I think crowds should chant whatever the f*** they want So Please don't generalise and group people based on one opinion of theirs. I will say that I do only really like Worked shoots when they at least stay somewhere within Kayfabe... (For instance the Pipebomb continually mentioned wrestling and beating Cena in a match, and not like it doesn't matter because this is scripted but our match will be real.) ... this almost fit if he didn't put the line about the people in the back saying don't be so good or something... and even then that could work if he was a deluded heel like the rest of the locker room are complaining about how good he is. I wouldn't say Dolph can't talk to save his life stuff, but he never clicked with me for some reason. But I did enjoy this promo for the most part. Also I liked the DX 2008 stuff... <_< >_> *runs away*
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 1, 2014 16:56:43 GMT -5
Worked shoots never lead anywhere, because they'd require exposure of things management would rather conceal or ignore.
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Post by molson5 on Feb 1, 2014 18:37:33 GMT -5
Not trying to start anything but, I couldn't help but notice that it's mostly the Anti IWCers knocking Ziggler's promo. Soooo......yeah. I was listening to Dean Ambrose on Colt Cobana's podcast, and he was talking about a type of fan (and type wrestler on the indies) that annoyed him, the over-cynical, smarky, thinks-they-know-everything-about-wrestling, "Cena can't work" kind of fan. Those fans killed the fun of wrestling on the indies for him. He hadn't grown up with the internet, so he had a much more earnest and sincere perspective of wrestling. I liked Ambrose even more than I did before after hearing that. So if he was describing the "IWC fan", then yes, I'd say that "anti-IWC fans," including myself, would generally not like that kind of promo at all. We'd rather hear the Dolph Ziggler character talk, as Dolph Ziggler, about something within the fictional wrestling universe. Instead of throwing out little winks to that group of fans Dean Ambrose talked about, that thrive on that cynicism and think that Ziggler is "one of them", the group that sees itself as understanding wrestling better than anyone else.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Feb 1, 2014 18:41:01 GMT -5
Honestly Dolph has always been capable of showing passion in his promos, and this was no different. I can't say that it was the best promo I've ever heard because it did come off just a little whiny towards the end, but there have been far, FAR worse promos in that regard.
Ziggler really does deserve more, but like Punk he really is his worst enemy. So I can only feel so sorry for the guy when he keeps saying things that get him in proverbial hot water.
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Post by Piccolo on Feb 1, 2014 18:46:13 GMT -5
I'm suggesting a potential interpretation of the promo. My interpretation implies no action on your part, nor any expectations of you on my part. Its a weak interpretation that doesn't help Ziggler in any way, shape, or form. If we're supposed to feel sympathy for him in storyline, implying he's tanking his matches is a terrible way to do it. What is the weakness in the interpretation? I'm interested to hear your thoughts. (As for whether it makes Ziggler sympathetic or unsympathetic if he was being pressured in the storyline to lose matches in order to keep his job, that would be up to the individual. I wouldn't pretend to guess at whether we would be supposed to empathize with his situation or not.)
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,739
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Post by schma on Feb 1, 2014 18:48:26 GMT -5
I can see how the content of the promo would be problematic given that it came after a clean loss. At the same time it wasn't just the content that made the promo great in my eyes. It was the cadence, the vocal levels, the beats. He started soft yes serious like Arn then built up to a bit of a frenzy and then cooled down a bit. Then he repeated the process. It wasn't perfect but there was a definite rhythm to it that is the kind of thing many public speakers would utilize. I also felt there was some passion and fire in the promo, something that is all too often lacking in many of the on tv promos. Passion is part of what sells me on a character or a feud.
Also, I remember when the authority was first showing up, and they fired Cody, Ziggler was one of the stars who was interviewed and had less pleasant words for the authority. Those stars were then "punished" for a couple shows. This was before the authority thing became all about Bryan, Punk and Orton. It would be interesting to see that aspect arise again, where all the wrestlers have a stake, provided the authority isn't neutered at WM.
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Post by molson5 on Feb 1, 2014 18:53:29 GMT -5
Worked shoots never lead anywhere, because they'd require exposure of things management would rather conceal or ignore. Where should they lead? Do people want footage of real booking meetings on RAW? And then maybe Dolph Ziggler can do a worked run-in into a real booking meeting, start yelling at people, and we can all wonder where reality ends? Is this the kind of show people want want they say they expected Punk's pipe bomb promo, or this Ziggler anti-WWE booking promo, to "lead somewhere?"
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Post by hossfan on Feb 1, 2014 18:59:40 GMT -5
Its a weak interpretation that doesn't help Ziggler in any way, shape, or form. If we're supposed to feel sympathy for him in storyline, implying he's tanking his matches is a terrible way to do it. What is the weakness in the interpretation? I'm interested to hear your thoughts. (As for whether it makes Ziggler sympathetic or unsympathetic if he was being pressured in the storyline to lose matches in order to keep his job, that would be up to the individual. I wouldn't pretend to guess at whether we would be supposed to empathize with his situation or not.) Faces in wrestling aren't meant to be passive victims. Nor are they supposed to give anything less than 100% in the ring. Even when they face impossible odds, or a forced to fight on a side they oppose, or against a friend, they do it. Its classic booking. To have Dolph say "The Authority" wants me to tank matches flies in the face of that. Worse, it makes the guy who beat him appear undeserving of his victory.
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SEAN CARLESS
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I'm Necessary Evil.
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Feb 1, 2014 19:05:13 GMT -5
I'm suggesting a potential interpretation of the promo. My interpretation implies no action on your part, nor any expectations of you on my part. Its a weak interpretation that doesn't help Ziggler in any way, shape, or form. If we're supposed to feel sympathy for him in storyline, implying he's tanking his matches is a terrible way to do it. I don't think we're supposed to digest it as part of the kayfabe narrative. This was a promo designed to rally the smarts who know that he's been misused and to play upon that emotion. It's like there's two different kayfabes going on at once. There's the onscreen narrative for casuals who just take things as they are. And then there's things like this targeted at the fans who look at wrestling a little deeper and more deconstructive.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Feb 1, 2014 19:08:39 GMT -5
Not trying to start anything but, I couldn't help but notice that it's mostly the Anti IWCers knocking Ziggler's promo. Soooo......yeah. I was listening to Dean Ambrose on Colt Cobana's podcast, and he was talking about a type of fan (and type wrestler on the indies) that annoyed him, the over-cynical, smarky, thinks-they-know-everything-about-wrestling, "Cena can't work" kind of fan. Those fans killed the fun of wrestling on the indies for him. He hadn't grown up with the internet, so he had a much more earnest and sincere perspective of wrestling. I liked Ambrose even more than I did before after hearing that. So if he was describing the "IWC fan", then yes, I'd say that "anti-IWC fans," including myself, would generally not like that kind of promo at all. We'd rather hear the Dolph Ziggler character talk, as Dolph Ziggler, about something within the fictional wrestling universe. Instead of throwing out little winks to that group of fans Dean Ambrose talked about, that thrive on that cynicism and think that Ziggler is "one of them", the group that sees itself as understanding wrestling better than anyone else. To be honest, Ambrose came off like a huge tool in that interview. Much more than Punk ever has, which says a lot.
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Post by Andy Martin on Feb 1, 2014 19:10:44 GMT -5
It was a good, solid promo from Ziggler.
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