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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 24, 2014 17:30:30 GMT -5
I always loved Robin in this movie. I thought they handled his origin story very well. Chris O'Donnell did a good job with him. Would have been much better with Michael Keaton playing Batman, and toned down villains.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 24, 2014 17:37:03 GMT -5
The origin was good, and Chris did his best, he was just way too old for the role. Like with Gordon's telling Bruce about Dick "he doesn't have anyone now."
It loses some of his pathos when Dick is like 26.
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 24, 2014 18:07:40 GMT -5
Really hated the whole "Batman doesn't know who he is" aspect of it. Three films in and he struggling with this? HE'S THE GODDAMN BATMAN! As a kid I did like all the performances though. TBF, you have the Nolan version who is waiting for the day when he doesn't have to be Batman anymore. Bruce craves retirement? HE'S THE GODDAMN BATMAN!
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Sin Cara Tres
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Post by Sin Cara Tres on Mar 24, 2014 18:19:53 GMT -5
He kind of realized he didn't want to die.
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The Unconquered Sun
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Post by The Unconquered Sun on Mar 25, 2014 3:56:23 GMT -5
Here’s the problem with Batman Forever, it’s the total lack of any understanding of the character. He spends decades building himself up as a living weapon, sacrifices himself to protecting Gotham and its people, spends most likely hundreds of million of dollars on a pursuit justice, and he gives up all of that over a woman he just met? Knows her less than a week and he ready to shut it all down for her. If he was that flippant, how could he accomplish all that made him Batman? Also towards the end he says lives as both Bruce Wayne and Batman. But any fan of Batman knows that’s not the case at all. Bruce Wayne is the mask for the real person that is Batman. The movie jut doesn’t feel true the mythos of the character, so yes it does deserve to be lumped in with Batman & Robin.
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Post by YaakovLee on Mar 25, 2014 4:28:01 GMT -5
I always loved Robin in this movie. I thought they handled his origin story very well. Chris O'Donnell did a good job with him. Would have been much better with Michael Keaton playing Batman, and toned down villains. I agree. Michael Keaton really kept the first two from falling apart. It's strange because Keaton isn't the type of guy who comes off like he can play Batman, but I still thought he did best with the role.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Mar 25, 2014 8:25:20 GMT -5
The origin was good, and Chris did his best, he was just way too old for the role. Like with Gordon's telling Bruce about Dick "he doesn't have anyone now." It loses some of his pathos when Dick is like 26. that was always my big issue. I mean O'Donnell did what he could with what he was given, but he was just too old. I know some people have problems with the child endangerment idea inherent in Dick being a young teen, but he kinda has to be. there's no reason at all for a guy whose clearly at least 20 going to live with Bruce. I'm not saying they should've cast a 12 year old (I always thought Dick being 12 when he started was equally stupid, and I'm glad the New 52 retconned it to him being like 15 or 16) but they really should've made him a teenager. as for the movie, I absolutely hated the look of Gotham in the Schumacher movies. it looked like Mystery Men, for Christ's sake. and Jim Carrey was comically miscast. Riddles aren't supposed to be funny. I think he could've done fine as Joker or something, but that's not who he was playing. and Tommy Lee Jones' Two-face was just a giant middle finger to everything about the character on top of looking ridiculous. I know a lot of the problems with Batman and Robin aren't all on Joel Schumacher, but Batman Forever's problems are all on him. I will give props to Kilmer being a good Batman (lousy Bruce Wayne though). and kudos to Joel Schumacher for getting a good performance out of the guy at a time when he had a rep for being the biggest prick in Hollywood (which was one of the reasons he wasn't asked to come back for Batman and Robin).
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 25, 2014 8:43:02 GMT -5
as for the movie, I absolutely hated the look of Gotham in the Schumacher movies. it looked like Mystery Men, for Christ's sake. and Jim Carrey was comically miscast. Riddles aren't supposed to be funny. Jim Carrey was clearly a fan of a Frank Gorshin style riddler... whose riddles were for the most part of the humorous nature, and played the part pretty manic.
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 25, 2014 10:38:40 GMT -5
I didn't think of Robin as "Dick Grayson, age 12" or something like that until I really got into the older comics in the later 90s.
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 25, 2014 11:26:03 GMT -5
The origin was good, and Chris did his best, he was just way too old for the role. Like with Gordon's telling Bruce about Dick "he doesn't have anyone now." It loses some of his pathos when Dick is like 26. It would still be traumatic if a 26 year old lost his entire family en masse right before his eyes. As a circus performer, he would have led a nomadic existence for the most part, so the family/troupe would have been the one constant in his life. Would be pretty devestating to lose all that in an instant.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 14:00:30 GMT -5
Yes, but Batman Returns is just as bad.
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 25, 2014 14:06:25 GMT -5
In the original script, Bruce was having pretty dark waking dreams about his parent's death, and ultimately it's revealed that he was the one who wanted to go the theatre the night Jack Napier killed them, so he's psychologically kinda blaming himself. In the novel, Gotham starts turning against Batman because they blame him for attracting supervillains to Gotham in the first instance, which was expanded upon in Batman Begins/The Dark Knight. Had Warner Brothers put all this stuff into the film, it would have been far better. They sabotaged their own film. It was much darker and layered before they gutted it.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Mar 25, 2014 14:25:13 GMT -5
It was because I hated Batman Forever so much that I refused to see Batman & Robin in theaters.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 15:49:38 GMT -5
It warms my heart to see how many of you don't like Batman Returns. You want to talk about movies butchering a major character, what the hell did that thing do to The Penguin? Especially since you could just plug Killer Croc in and the whole thing works better (Plus, then you could get an actual climactic battle instead of Batman reprogramming a bunch of f'n birds).
Anyway, I loved the look of Gotham in Batman Forever. That's the one good thing about the film for me, all those sweeping buildings and old school architectural touches. I actually really like the way it looks in Batman and Robin too. It's got this really unique look. It's EXACTLY what I think about when I imagine a comic book being brought back to life.
I don't think there's been a Batman movie I really love yet. I love the Nolan flicks, but I dunno, it doesn't feel like Batman to me. Batman to me is cool because he's this dark, brooding creature of fear who clashes with these forces who aren't like him. Joker? Loud, garish, in your face and utterly terrifying about it. You're forced to look at how awful he is and there's no escape. Mr. Freeze? Sterile. Cold. Bright. Like all the uncomfortable feelings you get if you're afraid of a hospital given form. Ivy? All these amazing bright colors of nature choking you, smothering you, pulling you under it. That's why those Nolan flicks don't quite work for me. It's all dark against dark. Batman never feels threatened because he never feels out of his element. I need a Batman flick where he's dealing with comic book level madness every once in a while.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Mar 25, 2014 20:50:39 GMT -5
Yes, but Batman Returns is just as bad. Agreed 100%. I say this every time the topic comes up, and I will say it again. Returns is my least favorite Batman movie. AT least the two Schumacher ones are fun (for all the wrong reasons, of course!)...Returns is a Tim Burton movie that just happens to have Batman, Penguin, and Catwoman in it.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 25, 2014 21:12:09 GMT -5
The origin was good, and Chris did his best, he was just way too old for the role. Like with Gordon's telling Bruce about Dick "he doesn't have anyone now." It loses some of his pathos when Dick is like 26. It would still be traumatic if a 26 year old lost his entire family en masse right before his eyes. As a circus performer, he would have led a nomadic existence for the most part, so the family/troupe would have been the one constant in his life. Would be pretty devestating to lose all that in an instant. Of course, but a grown man, generally, isn't gonna then become a total strangers ward.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 25, 2014 21:15:17 GMT -5
It would still be traumatic if a 26 year old lost his entire family en masse right before his eyes. As a circus performer, he would have led a nomadic existence for the most part, so the family/troupe would have been the one constant in his life. Would be pretty devestating to lose all that in an instant. Of course, but a grown man, generally, isn't gonna then become a total strangers ward. Was Dick Grayson in the movie really 26 years old? I mean sure Chris O'Donnell was quite old, but teens being played by 20 something hunks isn't anything new.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 25, 2014 21:15:56 GMT -5
Yes, but Batman Returns is just as bad. Agreed 100%. I say this every time the topic comes up, and I will say it again. Returns is my least favorite Batman movie. AT least the two Schumacher ones are fun (for all the wrong reasons, of course!)...Returns is a Tim Burton movie that just happens to have Batman, Penguin, and Catwoman in it. I can agree there, though I still really like it. I like all of em really, even though outside of from 66 to the Nolan flicks. Even the terrible ones. Phantasm is probably still the one that nails the core of the character the most.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 25, 2014 21:17:02 GMT -5
Of course, but a grown man, generally, isn't gonna then become a total strangers ward. Was Dick Grayson in the movie really 26 years old? I mean sure Chris O'Donnell was quite old, but teens being played by 20 something hunks isn't anything new. I know, this is just me being nitpicky, I'll concede that totally. Just always struck me as a lil silly. Chris played it well, despite being miscast.
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Post by Hit Girl on Mar 25, 2014 21:30:46 GMT -5
It would still be traumatic if a 26 year old lost his entire family en masse right before his eyes. As a circus performer, he would have led a nomadic existence for the most part, so the family/troupe would have been the one constant in his life. Would be pretty devestating to lose all that in an instant. Of course, but a grown man, generally, isn't gonna then become a total strangers ward. He had no intention of it. Keep in mind that he was going to leave Wayne Manor as soon as Commissioner Gordon was out of sight. Only reluctantly stayed.
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