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Post by Bert Hart on Jul 3, 2014 12:01:00 GMT -5
I would like to hear an honest opinion from someone who believes that Reigns should be "THE GUY". Have you seen him deliver a stand-out promo? Have you even seen him wrestle a singles match longer than 10 minutes in the past 2 years? Have you seen him perform any decent wrestling move outside of a couple power strikes and generic power moves? THIS is the guy you want to watch in the main event scene for years to come? A numbskull who relies on his looks, delivers weak promos and whose arsenal consists mostly of rest holds and strikes? Yeesh... I would just love to hear a valid reason for Reigns' push beyond "well he looks cool and pops the crowd lol" As much as this is going to pain me... I don't think Cena would have qualified under any of these prerequisites before winning the title at WM 21. I may be wrong on an instance or two, but he was never consistently outstanding or anything like that. Those traits didn't come until later. While I respect your opinion, you are woefully wrong. John Cena had been delivering consistently good promos. Ever since he became "WoRd LiFe JoHn CeNa", he took off like a friggen rocket. I'm no Chain Gang Soldier, but I believe Cena earned his main event push. His wrestling skills have always been questionable, but there was no doubt he had "IT" as soon as he grabbed that mic. On top of that, he had wrestled a ton of matches over 10 minutes and actually had some decent ones against the likes of Angle, Eddie, Brock... He had been US Champ for a while.
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Post by sybaku on Jul 3, 2014 12:03:22 GMT -5
I love how Reigns is getting auto hate the second he's in singles, all because he doesn't "deserve" it, yeah it has nothing to do with the fact he's the one without Indy cred....
(Edit I should explain this: "deserving" something in wrestling is really stupid because of the millions of factors involved in a predetermined sport, does the hoss who has spent hours upon hours working out to acquire a awe inspiring presence not deserve it as much as the guy who can cut a good promo, what about the guy who can sell insane amounts of merch, or the guy who's been wrestling since he's 15? Basically anyone can claim they "deserve" it, wrestling comes down to who you know and who talks you up to the right people, not what you did it sucks but that's how it is)
Reigns isn't as good as Ambrose or Rollins that's obvious.
Reigns isn't "our" guy that's obvious.
What Reigns will be is the new "Cena" in that most adults and "IWCers" will hate his boring ass ring style and generic promos, but you know who will love all that garbage? Little Timmy and associates, Reigns is being groomed as the next corporate (using that in a business' sense) champ.
Meanwhile we have Rollins and Ambrose as our new "guys", they won't get the super push because they don't need it and we don't want them to have it, WWE keeps our guys down because we love being the underdog rooting for the guy the "company" hates, the IWC myself included are nothing more than a bunch of hipsters who'd be furious if our guy " sold out" or got super pushed hell it's exactly what happened to Cena, we like to feel like we are too cool to cheer for who WWE tells us.
But again Reigns isn't for us, Reigns is going to be your classic Superman built up for the kiddies and casuals.
Ambrose, Rollins, Cesaro, Bryan.... These will be our guys glueing the show together with awesome matches and awesome promos, they won't have the title but they don't need it and most of us won't care.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 12:10:57 GMT -5
My only concern with Reigns (I think he has loads of upside) is that his repertoire of moves is thin. Very thin. He's like a Medieval knight. He absorbs some damage, charges at things, knocks them over, and calls it a day. He's really, really good at it. But that's about all he can do as far as wrestling goes. I've never seen him do anything else, and it concerns me because that sort of style is very much akin to what John Cena used to do before he became a good wrestler. Remember how over Cena was in 2004 and 2005, and how fast that all deteriorated? I suspect the same may happen to Reigns if they stick to this plan in its current form.
Who knows, I could be wrong. Maybe Reigns is like a stock anime hero and busts out increasingly convoluted and flashy moves as a fight escalates, but I've never seen it.
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4TheGlory
Vegeta
The Fun One At Parties
Posts: 9,749
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Post by 4TheGlory on Jul 3, 2014 12:16:27 GMT -5
I think Reigns is going to have a great career. But i too do worry that making it just so obvious that the WWE wants him to succeed waaaay more then just about anyone else, will cause a backlash to an extent.
I think the worst case scenario he will end up like Sheamus, heavily pushed and beloved by the higher ups (HHH), but never quite gets that main event reaction from the crowd as everyone from the beginning had it hammered in their heads that he got his push because he is Triple H's workout buddy.
Best case scenario he ends up a mega star. So the margins are still good for the WWE here. They will get a main eventer in both scenarios, but if they relax with the THIS IS THE GUY NOW style pushes, I can see him getting very big and making the WWE even more money in the long haul.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 3, 2014 12:20:24 GMT -5
Reigns is the future. Been saying that for 6 months, not backing off now. Dean&Seth also are, there doesn't have to be 1 guy. According to the WWE, there kinda does. If you aren't seeing a hierarchy getting played out in the booking, with the Ambrose/Rollins feud portrayed as less important than what Reigns is doing, then you're just not being honest about what you're watching. There's just a certain kind of fan who seems to really want BIG GRR INTENSE GRR guys to reach the top. Fine; you like super-boring wrestlers (I understand no one who finds dominant growling Ryback more entertaining than jerk bully Ryback). But almost everything that WAS interesting about Reigns, his smooth, swag persona, is going away and being replaced with absolutely nothing. We're literally supposed to like him because he is competent. That's what "good guy" has become. Even the people who want their wrestlers to be all manly and hard-hitting can see how that doesn't really have any legs, right? The Reigns backlash has been SO obvious for like a year now, watching it come has been like watching a car crash in slow motion. It's like they've been actively trying to make a backlash happen (which actually is within the realm of possibility if the plan is to super-heel him). For months, they've practically been flashing words on the screen that say "Like this guy because we want you to like him. Don't like these other two guys more than him." Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Reigns as a performer... I kind of suspect he sucks in the ring and they know it, but that can clearly be minimized. But instead of giving everyone something to do, the WWE is pulling their typical shit and just saying THIS GUY IS A TOP FACE AND HE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MOST OF THESE OTHER GUYS DO YOU BUY THAT HE'S THE NEW ROCK YET? Screw you, guys, just give everyone feuds and stop pretending there's power rankings for your fake sport.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 12:20:40 GMT -5
My only concern with Reigns (I think he has loads of upside) is that his repertoire of moves is thin. Very thin. He's like a Medieval knight. He absorbs some damage, charges at things, knocks them over, and calls it a day. He's really, really good at it. But that's about all he can do as far as wrestling goes. I've never seen him do anything else, and it concerns me because that sort of style is very much akin to what John Cena used to do before he became a good wrestler. Remember how over Cena was in 2004 and 2005, and how fast that all deteriorated? I suspect the same may happen to Reigns if they stick to this plan in its current form. Who knows, I could be wrong. Maybe Reigns is like a stock anime hero and busts out increasingly convoluted and flashy moves as a fight escalates, but I've never seen it. You mean he'll have evolved versions of his standard movelist throughout his entire career? "God Superman Punch" "Mega Spear" "Jungleman Dropkick" ?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 12:22:32 GMT -5
My only concern with Reigns (I think he has loads of upside) is that his repertoire of moves is thin. Very thin. He's like a Medieval knight. He absorbs some damage, charges at things, knocks them over, and calls it a day. He's really, really good at it. But that's about all he can do as far as wrestling goes. I've never seen him do anything else, and it concerns me because that sort of style is very much akin to what John Cena used to do before he became a good wrestler. Remember how over Cena was in 2004 and 2005, and how fast that all deteriorated? I suspect the same may happen to Reigns if they stick to this plan in its current form. Who knows, I could be wrong. Maybe Reigns is like a stock anime hero and busts out increasingly convoluted and flashy moves as a fight escalates, but I've never seen it. You mean he'll have evolved versions of his standard movelist throughout his entire career? "God Superman Punch" "Mega Spear" "Jungleman Dropkick" ? "FINAL SUPER SPECIAL ATTACK SIGNATURE SPEAR FINALE!" *Triple H vaporizes on impact*
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 3, 2014 12:24:39 GMT -5
I never said there isn't a hierachy.
What I meant is all 3 can be megastars.
Perhaps I should've made that more clear in my initial post.
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Post by Bert Hart on Jul 3, 2014 12:30:29 GMT -5
What I meant is all 3 can be megastars. They can't. WWE booking will not allow that. Eventually you have to feed the other two schmucks to Reigns as a last-ditch effort to save his failing push because he is their (WWE) favorite.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 3, 2014 12:32:21 GMT -5
I love how Reigns is getting auto hate the second he's in singles, all because he doesn't "deserve" it, yeah it has nothing to do with the fact he's the one without Indy cred.... See, and this is the background for this whole thing: People who think they're rebel underdog soldiers in a war against intolerant, smarty-pants hipsters. In fact, can we all as a forum get together and agree to just never use the word "hipster" ever again? It doesn't mean anything consistent, it never contributes anything to the discussion, and to the extent it does mean anything, it's casting a small section of the audience as some kind of powerful force to be rebelled against.
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Post by rowdy426 on Jul 3, 2014 12:36:13 GMT -5
As much as this is going to pain me... I don't think Cena would have qualified under any of these prerequisites before winning the title at WM 21. I may be wrong on an instance or two, but he was never consistently outstanding or anything like that. Those traits didn't come until later. While I respect your opinion, you are woefully wrong. John Cena had been delivering consistently good promos. Ever since he became "WoRd LiFe JoHn CeNa", he took off like a friggen rocket. I'm no Chain Gang Soldier, but I believe Cena earned his main event push. His wrestling skills have always been questionable, but there was no doubt he had "IT" as soon as he grabbed that mic. On top of that, he had wrestled a ton of matches over 10 minutes and actually had some decent ones against the likes of Angle, Eddie, Brock... He had been US Champ for a while. I completely, utterly blanked on the whole basis for his initial push...the rapping promos. God damn...
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Post by Bert Hart on Jul 3, 2014 12:38:35 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, as someone who knows nothing of the Indy cred of Ambrose, Rollins or Reigns, I have never been behind Reign's big push. This has nothing to do with me "turning on him" because he started to get popular. I simply don't like how WWE has been manipulating everyone from the beginning of the push with their subtle "suggestions" that Reigns is super cool for real srsly u guys and we should totally cheer him when it has always been incredibly obvious that he was the weakest member of The Shield.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 3, 2014 12:43:05 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, also? People? The community can turn on Reigns without a single individual WITHIN the community turning on him. This is not a matter of fickle people liking him and then suddenly deciding they don't. This is a matter of people who were neutral liking him less, people who like him cooling off and not talking about him as much, and people who dislike him getting more vocal. Please stop acting like the folks who dislike Reigns are weirdos who liked him at first; it's just probably not true.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 12:57:07 GMT -5
Really, I just don't want Reigns to end up like another Bobby Lashley.
A dude who was doing fine though he was greener than Green Arrow at a Green Lantern Booster Gold convention. Problem was somebody, likely Vince, saw him as REALLY REALLY BIG MAN BOBBY LASHLEY and pushed the shit out of him before people were accepting him like that, botching the shit out of his career as a result.
Had Lashley stayed, he'd have wasted years in his career having to regain credibility and to get the crowd to not hate on him. All because somebody, likely Vince, loved his giant oily muscles and figured he could get everyone to love them with the same intensity.
Man, how do you deal with people just sabotaging your career like that...?
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Dragonfly
Samurai Cop
...is no Barry Windham.
Posts: 2,488
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Post by Dragonfly on Jul 3, 2014 12:59:57 GMT -5
What bothers me most about the whole "Reigns debate" is the fact that wrestling fans/smarks/IWC complain so much about WWE pushing main eventers with very limited styles while refusing to push those who have the TOTAL package when it comes to being the TOP GUY. Here's the thing: They tried pushing The Total Package before. It did not go well.
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on Jul 3, 2014 13:04:06 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, also? People? The community can turn on Reigns without a single individual WITHIN the community turning on him. This is not a matter of fickle people liking him and then suddenly deciding they don't. This is a matter of people who were neutral liking him less, people who like him cooling off and not talking about him as much, and people who dislike him getting more vocal. Please stop acting like the folks who dislike Reigns are weirdos who liked him at first; it's just probably not true. Thank you. I was indifferent on Reigns while he was in The Shield and I just rode the wave of Shield fandom but then came November of last year and many things after that, that turned me off because this dude isn't ready nor do I feel he has it. I see nothing cool about him I don't see this "IT" he has because he doesn't appeal to me. The dude is boring. I sigh when he fights or cuts a promo because you know whats expected from because he's so limited and living off the coattails of The Shield. To me he doesn't have a good look/physique compared to guys like Cena, Orton, Seth Rollins, Sheamus, Cesaro. His attire is making me laugh every time I see him now since Sunday because of those terrible hot topic looking pants.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 3, 2014 13:14:31 GMT -5
For me personally, I see Reigns as a Batista in the lead up to Mania 21 type.
Dave didn't do much in ring either, but what he did was entertaining&he had real presence and a 'cool' factor that connected with crowds for quite sometime. For quite awhile there, Dave was OVER.
If Roman can fit into that mold, and I think he can, he'll be great.
Your mileage may vary.
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SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
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Post by SEAN CARLESS on Jul 3, 2014 13:26:37 GMT -5
People want a new face of the company, "anybody but Cena." WWE allegedly (according to dirtsheets) like Reigns in that role. People say, "No, I meant my guy." SMH. That's the issue for some, honestly. WWE wants it. And they decided what he'd be before there was any demand, and before he was over to any real degree other than being one of three with the Shield. And thus, they manufactured him to be portrayed as the strongest through clever and preferential booking since last year's Survivor Series wherein he was given the super-elimination spot. And of course, from there, The Rumble where he set the new elimination record. I think some just don't like it when WWE decides ahead of time, before organic demand, to push someone hard, let alone as apparent heir apparent. It's sour grapes of course for the exact reason you stated, but it's human nature. People see certain guys they want to get over like say Dolph Ziggler -- guys they cheer for and try to get behind every week in hopes that it leads to something-- and WWE responds to that organic popularity by making him lose (Right or wrong, they do do this). So, to those fans, it sticks in their craw when WWE handpicks someone to be a star and tries to make them one regardless, simply because of reasons and aesthetics they prefer. Fans like to believe they are in some way responsible for who gets opportunity, or what's the point, really? They want to *believe* (again, right or wrong) that they made WWE concede and push Daniel Bryan at Mania, because he was the preferred and honestly superior choice to the plan A WWE wanted, and again, handpicked ahead of time because THEY wanted it, not because it was the ideal situation or clear-cut right business decision. All that aside, I feel bad for Reigns. The small backlash at the moment is not his fault, and neither is the opportunity and preferential treatment he is receiving, despite clearly not being any better a choice than the two men he's being leapfrogged over. However, as I've said a bunch of times, I think if Reigns fails, it will NOT be because of anything of his own doing, like ring work or promos or any of the talking points being mentioned, but because fans, who are now wise and savvy to WWE's heavy-handed booking, reject him on the account of it. And because, they might want another Daniel Bryan instead, or hell, if he's back, the actual Daniel Bryan. In the last year, the M.O. of WWE booking has been exposed. And as such, they need to disregard all "Lashley" booking, and smartly program an obvious office project as anything but that. They need to figure out and exploit only what draws people to Reigns and makes him awesome, and forget the traps and red flags of a Cena failed experiment. It needs to almost seem like Reigns is NOT going to get there. Thus pissing off the fanbase at large who'll think it's unfair and bullshit like with Bryan. Only then can WWE hijack back their booking and still accomplish the same goal they want without their golden ticket getting shit on when the telltale signs of obvious and predictable manufacturing come to fuller light.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jul 3, 2014 13:33:50 GMT -5
My only concern with Reigns (I think he has loads of upside) is that his repertoire of moves is thin. Very thin. He's like a Medieval knight. He absorbs some damage, charges at things, knocks them over, and calls it a day. He's really, really good at it. But that's about all he can do as far as wrestling goes. I've never seen him do anything else, and it concerns me because that sort of style is very much akin to what John Cena used to do before he became a good wrestler. Remember how over Cena was in 2004 and 2005, and how fast that all deteriorated? I suspect the same may happen to Reigns if they stick to this plan in its current form. Who knows, I could be wrong. Maybe Reigns is like a stock anime hero and busts out increasingly convoluted and flashy moves as a fight escalates, but I've never seen it. 2004 John Cena > Current Roman Reigns. Cena had quite a varied moveset. He had the Throwback, the top rope fame-asser, and a fisherman's suplex in addition to the moves now known as the "Five Moves of Doom". And before he packed on the bulk, he did dropkicks more often.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Jul 3, 2014 13:34:50 GMT -5
As much as this is going to pain me... I don't think Cena would have qualified under any of these prerequisites before winning the title at WM 21. I may be wrong on an instance or two, but he was never consistently outstanding or anything like that. Those traits didn't come until later. While I respect your opinion, you are woefully wrong. John Cena had been delivering consistently good promos. Ever since he became "WoRd LiFe JoHn CeNa", he took off like a friggen rocket. I'm no Chain Gang Soldier, but I believe Cena earned his main event push. His wrestling skills have always been questionable, but there was no doubt he had "IT" as soon as he grabbed that mic. On top of that, he had wrestled a ton of matches over 10 minutes and actually had some decent ones against the likes of Angle, Eddie, Brock... He had been US Champ for a while. Yeah, I have to agree with this. Cena was basically one of the few things that Smackdown was doing right prior to his title win. He was over with everyone and essentially their top babyface. Even back when he was "ruthless aggression" Cena, he definitely perked my interest and thought he was going to be this underdog they booked him as, except that he was a true underdog, albeit a generic one. With Reigns...the training wheels really need to come off soon. You can't go into a big program with someone like Orton, who will likely put him over, if at this time, he's still not ready. If he's not ready, it's not an issue...but their plans need to change and Reigns needs to go back to having that time to learn because at this rate, he won't make it to Mania.
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