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Post by Pillman's Pencil on Jul 26, 2014 12:31:03 GMT -5
For me that slam on the Big Show should of been the making of him, turn Big Show heel and put him in a programme with a babyface Cesaro, oh what could of been.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jul 26, 2014 12:31:21 GMT -5
The swing does. The whole "King of Swing" gimmick is absolutely awful and it's only because it's got Paul Heyman latched onto it that so many people don't want to see it. Heyman has added as much to Cesaro as side salad adds to a tub of ice cream
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 12:32:18 GMT -5
I've come to view WWE as a completely hopeless entity under its current management. With all the indies out there that are actually putting out good wrestling, it gets progressively more difficult to justify spending any more time with WWE. Cesaro is one of the few guys who I really look forward to seeing, but it's like WWE just wants to shape everyone into the same boring mold.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 12:32:35 GMT -5
I guess they just really don't want him to be a babyface right now. But, in that case, why put him over Randy Orton clean on Smackdown 5 months ago, and have him win that WM Battle Royal in total babyface fashion?
It seems like they want to save him for later, but that's...not how things should work.
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Hawk Hart
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sold his organs.
The Best There Is, the Best There Was, and the Best That There Ever Will Be
Posts: 15,296
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Post by Hawk Hart on Jul 26, 2014 12:33:11 GMT -5
I really hate that in 2014, in an era where most fans have a knowledge of workers outside the WWE product, they still think the concept of refusing to organically let someone get over regardless of alignment is a good idea.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jul 26, 2014 12:33:46 GMT -5
He struggled to provoke anything beyond apathy in the crowd for a long time. If swinging a guy around got him over, then WWE are idiotic to ditch it. It doesn't need to be the be all and end all to his persona, but it should still be part of it. Having him not do it just pisses people off. It's entirely self-defeating.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 26, 2014 12:34:27 GMT -5
I still don't understand why after Wrestlemania and the performance he put on and how the crowd loves him they decided to make him a heel. I know it gets said a lot but I saw him as being the next top guy. Daniel Bryan had JUST won the title, they didn't know he was going out for months so soon. The Shield was hot and a split was inevitable, they'd just delayed Reigns push, and they still had Cena they didn't need the next top guy at the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 12:34:33 GMT -5
I get the idea behind it though. Way too often nowadays, heels are cool and crowd pleasing to the point they are no longer heels. Bo Dallas is suppose to be a heat magnet for boos but plays his character to the bone that he is getting cheered. Swagger and Colter's xenophobia act was suppose to generate heel heat but fans accepted it like it was Hacksaw Jim Duggan leading a pep rally and the We The People chant. Cesaro's swing went from being a heel tactic to crowd pleasing move. Even though I don't like him, the Miz's current character is so uncool that he's not even ironically cool. That is what more heels need to strive for instead of being Kevin Nash in 97. The Swing should be used when he's going to turn face. Plus he don't want to get pigeonholed as the Swing Guy. He got way more to offer than that. At the same time though, at the end of the day the most important thing should be to be entertaining. Stripping out everything that gets heels over in order to make them more boring, and in the process causing the crowd to go from cheering for them to just sitting on their hands, doesn't do them, their opponents, or the viewers any favors. It's better to get them cheered than to get apathy, and without the swing apathy's all Cesaro's ever gotten.
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Post by Neo: "The One" who CLAPS on Jul 26, 2014 12:36:12 GMT -5
I hope that they still have plans to turn him face later in the year. Now that he seems to be a "Triple H guy" and allied with the Authority, I just hope he does the Swing to Hunter, Rollins, or Orton to turn face. But as of right now, Cesaro is completely lost in the shuffle, and it's all WWE's fault. They could have even kept him as a tweener while keeping Heyman heel. It's almost like they book their shows like a kid would book his action figures. "Man, wouldn't be cool if Heyman managed Cesaro? I don't know what the payoff will be, but I'll just book it on the fly!" Another example of WWE's shortsightedness.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jul 26, 2014 12:36:41 GMT -5
I do kind of get the point though. Just because fans count doesn't necessarily mean it's over. They'll still count a 10-count punch standing over someone on the turnbuckle. Difference between fan participation and 'overness' that seems to have been blurred over the years. If this was 20 years ago every match would end in a count out on the basis that the crowd love it, they always count along.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 26, 2014 12:39:53 GMT -5
I really hate that in 2014, in an era where most fans have a knowledge of workers outside the WWE product, they still think the concept of refusing to organically let someone get over regardless of alignment is a good idea. if the fans just exploded for the guy(and I'm talking any hypothetical guy) when he was out there doing his matches and his promos they probably wouldn't try to stop it. But everything bleeds over.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 12:41:12 GMT -5
I still don't understand why after Wrestlemania and the performance he put on and how the crowd loves him they decided to make him a heel. I know it gets said a lot but I saw him as being the next top guy. Daniel Bryan had JUST won the title, they didn't know he was going out for months so soon. The Shield was hot and a split was inevitable, they'd just delayed Reigns push, and they still had Cena they didn't need the next top guy at the time. At the time? It's happening right now. Bryan's been out for 2 months already. They just randomly dropped Cesaro/Heyman 2 weeks ago. The whole thing is a complete botch.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 12:42:16 GMT -5
I really hate that in 2014, in an era where most fans have a knowledge of workers outside the WWE product, they still think the concept of refusing to organically let someone get over regardless of alignment is a good idea. if the fans just exploded for the guy(and I'm talking any hypothetical guy) when he was out there doing his matches and his promos they probably wouldn't try to stop it. But everything bleeds over. Kofi Kingston Cody Rhodes John Morrison Ryback ...any of these ring a bell?
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on Jul 26, 2014 12:44:43 GMT -5
I do kind of get the point though. Just because fans count doesn't necessarily mean it's over. They'll still count a 10-count punch standing over someone on the turnbuckle. Difference between fan participation and 'overness' that seems to have been blurred over the years. If this was 20 years ago every match would end in a count out on the basis that the crowd love it, they always count along. So when he would grab people's legs he wouldn't get a pop? What they just wait for the swings to give a reaction? You're coming off as when Bryan was on the rise last year.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jul 26, 2014 12:45:29 GMT -5
I get the idea behind it though. Way too often nowadays, heels are cool and crowd pleasing to the point they are no longer heels. Bo Dallas is suppose to be a heat magnet for boos but plays his character to the bone that he is getting cheered. Swagger and Colter's xenophobia act was suppose to generate heel heat but fans accepted it like it was Hacksaw Jim Duggan leading a pep rally and the We The People chant. Cesaro's swing went from being a heel tactic to crowd pleasing move. Even though I don't like him, the Miz's current character is so uncool that he's not even ironically cool. That is what more heels need to strive for instead of being Kevin Nash in 97. The Swing should be used when he's going to turn face. Plus he don't want to get pigeonholed as the Swing Guy. He got way more to offer than that. At the same time though, at the end of the day the most important thing should be to be entertaining. Stripping out everything that gets heels over in order to make them more boring, and in the process causing the crowd to go from cheering for them to just sitting on their hands, doesn't do them, their opponents, or the viewers any favors. It's better to get them cheered than to get apathy, and without the swing apathy's all Cesaro's ever gotten. The most important thing is doing what you are required to be. Cesaro is still a beast in the ring. He still does moves that get the crowd's reactions. No one wants to be Petey Williams and the Canadian Destroyer. During Petey's matches, he would put on a clinic but the crowd only reacted when he did the OH CANADA groin stomp and the Canadian Destroyer. I seen the crowd be quiet will he heeled it up but come alive when he did the Destroyer. Be too entertaining you no longer are a heel. Be too boring, you earn apathy. Just being known for the Swing makes him a one move wonder.
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on Jul 26, 2014 12:46:32 GMT -5
It's a face spot. He's a heel.
It'll be back one day.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jul 26, 2014 12:48:08 GMT -5
I really f***ing hate WWE sometimes. What other entertainment company would intentionally drop something that was super hot with their fanbase because damn it, they didn't plan for the fans to like it? We aren't watching a product made for us. We're watching Vince McMahon's personal sandbox.
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on Jul 26, 2014 12:48:32 GMT -5
if the fans just exploded for the guy(and I'm talking any hypothetical guy) when he was out there doing his matches and his promos they probably wouldn't try to stop it. But everything bleeds over. Kofi Kingston Cody Rhodes John Morrison Ryback ...any of these ring a bell? There shouldn't be only two to three top guys there should be plenty so people can look back on this in 25 years and say damn 2012-2014 was a good time in WWE, there was something for everyone. The Network is being built on moments/memories that would be re-watched, the only memorable PPV this year is Mania 30 that's it.
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Post by Tessmachers-Ass-Fan on Jul 26, 2014 12:50:20 GMT -5
f*** this company.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jul 26, 2014 12:51:20 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan had JUST won the title, they didn't know he was going out for months so soon. The Shield was hot and a split was inevitable, they'd just delayed Reigns push, and they still had Cena they didn't need the next top guy at the time. At the time? It's happening right now. Bryan's been out for 2 months already. They just randomly dropped Cesaro/Heyman 2 weeks ago. The whole thing is a complete botch. the day after Wrestlemania when Cesaro stayed heel Daniel Bryan wasn't known to be hurt. That is the time they chose not to turn Cesaro face. He stopped doing the Swring regularly probably six weeks at most from that point, Heyman kept calling him the King of Swing long after he'd stopped. They weren't promoting it they were taunting fans with it's absence.
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