mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Aug 18, 2014 14:59:03 GMT -5
They're old acts, and a little bit stale, especially Kane at this point. Kane has taken heat from almost everyone he has feuded with for about a year, and as for Orton, I think he's pretty played out. You're putting a guy who is supposed to me new and excited with two of the stalest acts in the company, and expect him to carry the load. I don't think that's fair. Orton isn't an old act unless he's put in the title scene, where he has no business being at this point. Over the last few years, he's had some fantastic bouts (title match or not) and really who else is Roman going to work with who isn't a "tired act"? Triple H? Cena? The same argument could be made for either, except the problem is that both as of right now outclass Reigns, so putting him with either would be throwing him to the lions.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Aug 18, 2014 14:59:53 GMT -5
Where I don't think Reigns gets a fair shake:
Rollins, in my opinion, hasn't really shined in his role since the breakup of the Shield. He has put on some very good matches, but he hasn't been good on the mic, and seems a little lost in the shuffle without Ambrose. However, it seems people will put 90% of the blame on the company for not putting him a position to succeed, as opposed to Reigns, who people are quick to say, he's just not ready yet.
|
|
|
Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Aug 18, 2014 15:00:38 GMT -5
And that's exactly why Reigns shouldn't be pushed so hard. Why? Because he didn't pay his dues in the indies? That's like telling they can't be a starting quarterback because you didn't play in a big national conference. Dude, you're talking to the guy who whines and moans about Alex Riley's lack of push. I could care less about whether or not someone "paid their dues" by wrestling in from of 50 people for 50 bucks and a McDonald's gift card. If a wrestler doesn't have the experience of the indies, he should start at the bottom of the main roster, working lower card or midcard matches and plying his craft that way. Reigns should be working his way up as a singles guy, even if it's just Wheel of Aggression style matches.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Aug 18, 2014 15:01:37 GMT -5
They're old acts, and a little bit stale, especially Kane at this point. Kane has taken heat from almost everyone he has feuded with for about a year, and as for Orton, I think he's pretty played out. You're putting a guy who is supposed to me new and excited with two of the stalest acts in the company, and expect him to carry the load. I don't think that's fair. Orton isn't an old act unless he's put in the title scene, where he has no business being at this point. Over the last few years, he's had some fantastic bouts (title match or not) and really who else is Roman going to work with who isn't a "tired act"? Triple H? Cena? The same argument could be made for either, except the problem is that both as of right now outclass Reigns, so putting him with either would be throwing him to the lions. We're going to have to agree to disagree on the Orton point because I think he's pretty bad, with a few exceptions here and there.
|
|
|
Post by thelonewolf527 on Aug 18, 2014 15:01:49 GMT -5
Where I don't think Reigns gets a fair shake: Rollins, in my opinion, hasn't really shined in his role since the breakup of the Shield. He has put on some very good matches, but he hasn't been good on the mic, and seems a little lost in the shuffle without Ambrose. However, it seems people will put 90% of the blame on the company for not putting him a position to succeed, as opposed to Reigns, who people are quick to say, he's just not ready yet. That's what it always is. That's why when The Miz isn't doing well it's because he sucks, but when *insert any indie guy here* isn't doing well, it's because of booking.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Aug 18, 2014 15:03:41 GMT -5
I think Reigns would be better served feuding with Wyatt(except the booked him into oblivion after Mania), Rusev, or a turner Sheamus, rather than Orton and Kane.
|
|
FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
|
Post by FAR5222 on Aug 18, 2014 15:04:37 GMT -5
The list of people Reigns worked with in singles matches.
Mark Henry Daniel Bryan Randy Orton Kane CM Punk RybAxel (I'll count this one because he was alone) Bray Wyatt Del Rio Rusev Batista
That's a pretty deep list of guys he's worked with in the last year. We know what he can do its not like this hate just sprung out of no where. It's just now the criticism is kicking in because it's time to improve and prove us nay sayers wrong which he really hasn't yet.
|
|
|
Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 18, 2014 15:07:06 GMT -5
Why? Because he didn't pay his dues in the indies? That's like telling someone they can't be a starting quarterback because you didn't play in a big national conference. It has nothing to do with indies or paying dues. It has everything to do with being good enough to perform at the level your spot should require. It's mind-numbingly stupid that they have guys who are ready for that spot (Cesaro), and do jack shit with them because they are dead-set on pushing Reigns. They want Reigns to be THE guy by 2015, but what would be so bad about making him THE guy in 2017 after he no doubt becomes a much better performer? I do agree that Reigns is being asked to be at a level that even experience veterans have trouble getting and not at that level currently. But WWE is grooming him and accessing his growth. If he doesn't meet their requirements, they will throttle back on the push accordingly. Cesaro was getting a similar type of push when he first came up. For whatever reason, WWE stopped it. There's no guarantee than Roman will get the world title in 7 months. Hell, there's no guarantee he'll be the Man.
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Aug 18, 2014 15:11:34 GMT -5
We're going to have to agree to disagree on the Orton point because I think he's pretty bad, with a few exceptions here and there. I can't stand Orton when he's the encompassing power that the company revolves around, but he's put on many many good matches since 2010. That doesn't make me a fan by any means, but when motivated (yes, he needs to be motivated), then he's going to outperform roughly 90% of the roster. Where I don't think Reigns gets a fair shake: Rollins, in my opinion, hasn't really shined in his role since the breakup of the Shield. He has put on some very good matches, but he hasn't been good on the mic, and seems a little lost in the shuffle without Ambrose. However, it seems people will put 90% of the blame on the company for not putting him a position to succeed, as opposed to Reigns, who people are quick to say, he's just not ready yet. You know, the part about shining really does start with having a motive behind why someone does something, and the rewards that Rollins have benefited from since turning have been quite meager. I disagree completely that he "hasn't been good on the mic" considering he has yet to botch a promo and when with the Shield, he was given by far the most mic time. If you don't like his voice, that's one thing, but he's doing exactly what the company wants him to do.
|
|
|
Post by ________ has left the building on Aug 18, 2014 15:12:54 GMT -5
Why? Because he didn't pay his dues in the indies? That's like telling they can't be a starting quarterback because you didn't play in a big national conference. Dude, you're talking to the guy who whines and moans about Alex Riley's lack of push. I could care less about whether or not someone "paid their dues" by wrestling in from of 50 people for 50 bucks and a McDonald's gift card. If a wrestler doesn't have the experience of the indies, he should start at the bottom of the main roster, working lower card or midcard matches and plying his craft that way. Reigns should be working his way up as a singles guy, even if it's just Wheel of Aggression style matches. It's not his fault that they felt he didn't need to come up the rough path of fighting midcarders on they way to the top. Blame WWE for that. Don't people spend time complaining about why so and so is wrestling this midcarder when he should fighting the upper class?
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Aug 18, 2014 15:17:53 GMT -5
That's what it always is. That's why when The Miz isn't doing well it's because he sucks, but when *insert any indie guy here* isn't doing well, it's because of booking. Except that, when someone is given the ball...and I mean they're given a wide open shot and miss badly, then yes...it is their fault. Not utilizing someone to their full potential and over-utilizing someone who isn't ready for it or can live up to expectations...well it DOES happen.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 15:20:37 GMT -5
Take away all the pitchforks and all the biases, and Reigns vs. Orton was still the worst match last night that didn't involve Brie Bella. Reigns is supposed to be the future and is getting pushed like it, while people under him on the card outshine and out-pop him. He got some boos last night, that's a bad sign regardless of the reason why.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 18, 2014 15:21:04 GMT -5
The issue is Reigns is being compared to Ambrose and Rollins. Now those that followed the indies and even FCW knew what those 2 could do in the ring while those who didn't are seeing more things that they can do that were not on display in 6 man tag matches.
Reigns is still rather limited in terms of what he can do in the ring. And that's not really a criticism. It takes a lot of wrestlers 4-5 years to find their niche as workers to get noticed. Most indy guys who have been getting signed have evolved who they are on the indies before even getting to WWE.
I thought the match was fine last night but with Ambrose getting so much love from crowds it makes Reigns look bad in comparison
|
|
|
Post by thelonewolf527 on Aug 18, 2014 15:23:49 GMT -5
Take away all the pitchforks and all the biases, and Reigns vs. Orton was still the worst match last night that didn't involve Brie Bella. Reigns is supposed to be the future and is getting pushed like it, while people under him on the card outshine and out-pop him. He got some boos last night, that's a bad sign regardless of the reason why. Bullshit, that match was still better than the IC and Divas Title matches at least
|
|
FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
|
Post by FAR5222 on Aug 18, 2014 15:25:27 GMT -5
Take away all the pitchforks and all the biases, and Reigns vs. Orton was still the worst match last night that didn't involve Brie Bella. Reigns is supposed to be the future and is getting pushed like it, while people under him on the card outshine and out-pop him. He got some boos last night, that's a bad sign regardless of the reason why. Bullshit, that match was still better than the IC and Divas Title matches at least But that is your opinion just like it was his opinion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 15:27:53 GMT -5
Take away all the pitchforks and all the biases, and Reigns vs. Orton was still the worst match last night that didn't involve Brie Bella. Reigns is supposed to be the future and is getting pushed like it, while people under him on the card outshine and out-pop him. He got some boos last night, that's a bad sign regardless of the reason why. Bullshit, that match was still better than the IC and Divas Title matches at least There's no need to be combative. Not even really an insult, because that card was top-notch. Orton/Reigns was the only one that felt dull and dragged along, though it ended well. Not a bad match, but not quite good.
|
|
Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,294
|
Post by Push R Truth on Aug 18, 2014 15:28:48 GMT -5
I sometimes feel a bunch of people will hate Roman no matter what he does unless he pulls off his mask to reveal he was Ambrose the whole time, and he would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those meddling kids.
|
|
|
Post by thelonewolf527 on Aug 18, 2014 15:30:01 GMT -5
Bullshit, that match was still better than the IC and Divas Title matches at least There's no need to be combative. Not even really an insult, because that card was top-notch. Orton/Reigns was the only one that felt dull and dragged along, though it ended well. Not a bad match, but not quite good. But also keep in mind that they went on after the McMahon match, which was essentially the #2 match on the show. They were in what's usually the buffer spot, gave people a little bit to cool down, and still got the crowd into it at the end. Had they opened the show I think the whole match would have had a hot crowd
|
|
|
Post by greenhelmet on Aug 18, 2014 15:32:00 GMT -5
Take away all the pitchforks and all the biases, and Reigns vs. Orton was still the worst match last night that didn't involve Brie Bella. Reigns is supposed to be the future and is getting pushed like it, while people under him on the card outshine and out-pop him. He got some boos last night, that's a bad sign regardless of the reason why. Nobody has the crowd 100% behind them. I would hardly call a few boos to be a sign of anything.
|
|
|
Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 18, 2014 15:32:49 GMT -5
I don't have anything against Roman but I guess there's resentment from me, and probably others, that when Seth and Dean are having matches as incredible as last night, that it's Roman who's getting the major push.
|
|