mrjl
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Post by mrjl on Aug 26, 2014 16:50:17 GMT -5
What constitutes coherent logic? Cena's character is that he never gives up, no matter the circumstances. If he came out saying "I'm giving up, I can't beat Lesnar" it makes him look like a bitch and would be completely out of character. In fact, I consider this to be more logical than plenty of things people gawk about all the time This rough idea has been suggested a few times in other threads (and maybe this one, but I'm going off memory): Cena shows his never give up attitude by coming out taped up, saying he won't be competing until NoC, but that he's smarter and finding what to aim for on Brock in order to give himself a fighting chance as he didn't believe a part-time champion could be as devastating as Brock was, which was why the Summerslam match was so one sided. It's not much, but the damage to Bray Wyatt, the obnoxious verbal fellatio from the commentary team (and auto-fellatio by Cena himself in the opening segment) made it seem that Cena wasn't quite selling the devastating beat down he took. Well, Cena said he was, but he was moving around fine/saying he's willing to take on someone seen as a kayfabe threat without worry, taking down the 3 man Wyatt team almost single handedly. I don't think Cena being a coward is the way forward either, but for the sake of not damaging the standing of other wrestlers who aren't as established as Cena there are many easier/simpler/less awkward routes they could have gone down. Just stick the DDP rib tape on him, or have Cena mention his neck is a bit ruined from the multiple Germans, then have Cena not cleared to compete by a kayfabe doctor until NoC etc. Let the physical toll on Cena sell the damage but also sell his determination. he was wrestling impressively. The announcers are supposed to no-sell it. the beating was 8 days before, he hadn't wrestled since unlike say Swagger who keeps getting his ribs beat on every show or Rusev who keeps getting his ankle worked over and also unlike Swagger and Rusev they never suggested a particular spot was hurt to sell. they probably figured that showing Cena wrestling a more impactful style was needed to show the next match wouldn't just be a repeat
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Aug 26, 2014 16:51:44 GMT -5
It would have at least kind of made sense if instead of Cena going out there and showing "ruthless aggression" that he goes out there and says that after he beat Lesnar the first time, albeit after taking a ton of punishment, that he could go out there again and do the same thing. It would show he was putting his best effort forward, but that Lesnar had become better and he was going to need to up his game if he stands a chance at him again. But no...we'll have everyone act like scared dogs around Cena so that we can put the build on two guys while destroying three others. no one acted like that until he went out and smacked Bray around
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Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 26, 2014 16:52:55 GMT -5
They're finally using Cena to help someone (as seems to be the plan) and that person is Roman Reigns? Seriously?
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Post by Prince Petty on Aug 26, 2014 16:53:03 GMT -5
I've not watched Raw, but it seems to me that, if they've got three weeks until Night of Champions, they could go a bit slower on this. Have Cena doubting himself at first, have him look weak and vulnerable. Have him show that in a match, where he perhaps comes close to losing to someone he should really beat. Then he wins the match, and a little bit of his confidence comes back. Build on that the following week, have him give a promo about how he was over-confident and how he knows he made mistakes in the match against Brock, but he's ready to admit them and he knows now that he can do better in the rematch.
Then have Brock crush him again. Make it competitive for a bit, but then Brock just annihilates him in the end. Either Cena actually quits (no chance!) or the ref does stop the match because he can't continue.
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mrjl
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Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Aug 26, 2014 16:54:14 GMT -5
They could have simply ripped off Rocky III and IV They should have started with a confident Cena saying that's beaten Lesnar before and can do so again. Heyman would say Cena has lost his edge. He used to be a doctor of thugonomics but is now just a corporate mascot whose main purpose is selling merchandise, making sick kids happy and being a company man. Ce I would find that massively out of character for Cena. And the Doctor of Thuganomics got his knee destroyed by Lesnar and lost his title match when he returned so that doesn't work
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Post by BorneAgain on Aug 26, 2014 16:54:23 GMT -5
You know Cena being dominant would actually bother me less if the nature about it weren't so generic.
John doing a promo and admitting that he's pissed off at Brock, but more importantly pissed off at himself because he let his initial victory over Brock go to his head could have worked. Doubly so if he flat out says that he allowed himself to get complacent since the Extreme Rules and allowed his abilities to go stagnant rather than improving like Lesnar did. Hell I could even get into Cena saying he believes he's going to win at NOC if it came with him saying that he has to believe that, because if there is any doubt in his mind, than the Beast has already won and will take advantage.
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Post by joeiscool on Aug 26, 2014 16:54:30 GMT -5
He revealed the monster that Wyatt said was in him the entirety of their feud. I doubt that will be mentioned. That thought crossed my mind briefly last night and I just had to shake my head. Actually it was mentioned on the post show
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 26, 2014 16:56:23 GMT -5
They could have simply ripped off Rocky III and IV They should have started with a confident Cena saying that's beaten Lesnar before and can do so again. Heyman would say Cena has lost his edge. He used to be a doctor of thugonomics but is now just a corporate mascot whose main purpose is selling merchandise, making sick kids happy and being a company man. Ce I would find that massively out of character for Cena. And the Doctor of Thuganomics got his knee destroyed by Lesnar and lost his title match when he returned so that doesn't work God forbid his character ever changes even slightly.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 26, 2014 17:00:12 GMT -5
This thread was funner when we were discussing Rocky villains and their merits and motivations. It felt like an actual dialogue was taking place, which is more than I can say for a lot of these exchanges.
"My opinion." "lol, no, my opinion." "My opinion phrased a little differently but restating things" "No, your opinion bad, here's mine stated again with a little different phrasing and a little bit snippier" Suplex, repeat.
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Post by Prince Petty on Aug 26, 2014 17:02:59 GMT -5
This thread was funner when we were discussing Rocky villains and their merits and motivations. It felt like an actual dialogue was taking place, which is more than I can say for a lot of these exchanges. "My opinion." "lol, no, my opinion." "My opinion phrased a little differently but restating things" "No, your opinion bad, here's mine stated again with a little different phrasing and a little bit snippier" Suplex, repeat. As someone who's only ever seen Rocky Wins The Cold War, I'm mystified by most of the talk in this thread. Cena is Rocky? Or is he Apollo Creed? Will he beat Rusev or be killed by him? Can we vote on that on the app?
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Post by BorneAgain on Aug 26, 2014 17:06:27 GMT -5
This thread was funner when we were discussing Rocky villains and their merits and motivations. It felt like an actual dialogue was taking place, which is more than I can say for a lot of these exchanges. "My opinion." "lol, no, my opinion." "My opinion phrased a little differently but restating things" "No, your opinion bad, here's mine stated again with a little different phrasing and a little bit snippier" Suplex, repeat. As someone who's only ever seen Rocky Wins The Cold War, I'm mystified by most of the talk in this thread. Cena is Rocky? Or is he Apollo Creed? Will he beat Rusev or be killed by him? Can we vote on that on the app? They're all wrong. With his single minded ways and unchanging manner, Cena is actually Paulie's robot.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 26, 2014 17:07:19 GMT -5
This thread was funner when we were discussing Rocky villains and their merits and motivations. It felt like an actual dialogue was taking place, which is more than I can say for a lot of these exchanges. "My opinion." "lol, no, my opinion." "My opinion phrased a little differently but restating things" "No, your opinion bad, here's mine stated again with a little different phrasing and a little bit snippier" Suplex, repeat. As someone who's only ever seen Rocky Wins The Cold War, I'm mystified by most of the talk in this thread. Cena is Rocky? Or is he Apollo Creed? Will he beat Rusev or be killed by him? Can we vote on that on the app? He needs to buy the Bellas' brother a robot.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 26, 2014 17:07:57 GMT -5
As someone who's only ever seen Rocky Wins The Cold War, I'm mystified by most of the talk in this thread. Cena is Rocky? Or is he Apollo Creed? Will he beat Rusev or be killed by him? Can we vote on that on the app? They're all wrong. With his single minded ways and unchanging manner, Cena is actually Paulie's robot. I like that we, simultaneously, went to reference the robot of all things.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 26, 2014 17:09:10 GMT -5
I thought it was really out of character when Colonel Quarritch was killed at the end of Avatar.
I mean, for most of the film, he was really tough and seemed really strong, but then the heroes defeat him at the end.
Doesn't make any sense. I don't get it.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 26, 2014 17:12:30 GMT -5
As someone who's only ever seen Rocky Wins The Cold War, I'm mystified by most of the talk in this thread. Cena is Rocky? Or is he Apollo Creed? Will he beat Rusev or be killed by him? Can we vote on that on the app? They're all wrong. With his single minded ways and unchanging manner, Cena is actually Paulie's robot. It honestly would make sense. He was the Prototype. If John was an android this whole time, him never showing any depth or real human emotions would fit in with all of that.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Aug 26, 2014 17:15:31 GMT -5
no one acted like that until he went out and smacked Bray around Oh that was just the beginning...
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Injustice45
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Post by Injustice45 on Aug 26, 2014 17:24:13 GMT -5
It was mentioned a couple times, but, John Cena is a Saiyan. He took a serious ass-kicking, and he comes back stronger than before. And we all thought Son Goku was bad for defeating bad guys in the show/manga and movies...
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Woo
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Post by Woo on Aug 26, 2014 17:29:19 GMT -5
A question for all those who think Cena is acting "illogically". When a sports star gets absolutely beaten in competition, beaten to the point that its quite clear who the better man/team is, how often do you see them admit it the next time the two face? How many show actual doubt before the rematch? Doesn't happen often. Its just as likely they're going to puff up their chest and make some kind of bold prediction about them winning. This is what happens in the real world. If it happens in the real world, you cannot claim it makes no sense, because there are concrete examples of it happening. Pretty sure that's exactly what Brazil will do when they face Germany again in another world cup. What they won't do is say "we were unlucky in 2014, but I know we are good enough to win with the same team this time!! It was just an off day, you'll see!"
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Aug 26, 2014 17:30:47 GMT -5
This thread was funner when we were discussing Rocky villains and their merits and motivations. It felt like an actual dialogue was taking place, which is more than I can say for a lot of these exchanges. "My opinion." "lol, no, my opinion." "My opinion phrased a little differently but restating things" "No, your opinion bad, here's mine stated again with a little different phrasing and a little bit snippier" Suplex, repeat. Sort of, and I agree that it's one of the biggest fun killing aspects on this board. But, in a lot of the cases, it's: "My opinion" "NO! MY OPINION! MY OPINION!" "But, logically disputes and debunks opinion" "Snide comment restating loud countered opinion" "Sigh, debunks again" "Third person here, sticking up for first opinion and further debunking opinion 2" "Opinion 2 angrier and snider" "Mod warns general group, but is really aimed at Opinion 2" "Opinion 2 angrier still, probably gets warned privately" "Opinion 4 trying to stir up hate either in the same topic, or by adding another hot button topic that gets people to roll eyes" "Thread locked, mod barely cites reason, possibly privately speaks to troublemakers, troublemakers fully intend to do the same thing in another thread." It's soul crushing, man. This place can be a lot of fun, and the serious discussion can be fun too, but the same three or four people make it miserable and nothing ever seems to be done about it. Just because rules aren't technically being broken, they're bending about as far as they can do, and it hurts the people that were just enjoying themselves.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 26, 2014 17:41:54 GMT -5
This thread was funner when we were discussing Rocky villains and their merits and motivations. It felt like an actual dialogue was taking place, which is more than I can say for a lot of these exchanges. "My opinion." "lol, no, my opinion." "My opinion phrased a little differently but restating things" "No, your opinion bad, here's mine stated again with a little different phrasing and a little bit snippier" Suplex, repeat. Sort of, and I agree that it's one of the biggest fun killing aspects on this board. But, in a lot of the cases, it's: "My opinion" "NO! MY OPINION! MY OPINION!" "But, logically disputes and debunks opinion" "Snide comment restating loud countered opinion" "Sigh, debunks again" "Third person here, sticking up for first opinion and further debunking opinion 2" "Opinion 2 angrier and snider" "Mod warns general group, but is really aimed at Opinion 2" "Opinion 2 angrier still, probably gets warned privately" "Opinion 4 trying to stir up hate either in the same topic, or by adding another hot button topic that gets people to roll eyes" "Thread locked, mod barely cites reason, possibly privately speaks to troublemakers, troublemakers fully intend to do the same thing in another thread." It's soul crushing, man. This place can be a lot of fun, and the serious discussion can be fun too, but the same three or four people make it miserable and nothing ever seems to be done about it. Just because rules aren't technically being broken, they're bending about as far as they can do, and it hurts the people that were just enjoying themselves. The place is neat because people here care a lot, but the dark side of caring is getting upset over it, and stubborness is part of that. Even the people who "don't care" about WWE or its current product care a LOT, or they wouldn't loiter in WWE Current and remind everyone so much that they don't watch it. They still can't pry themselves away, because WWE's twists and turns effect all of wrestling on one level or another. Everyone is very invested in their favorites, and what they think the future holds, and I'm included in that. I know I've dug in my heels plenty of times, but it's still a pain when battle lines are drawn and no one gives up an inch, and it turns into a pissing match.
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