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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 28, 2014 9:19:13 GMT -5
I'm so incredibly tired of this stupid expression. Anyone else? Yes. It's similar to the post about being jaded long term fans. WWE did the same thing with all of their major faces getting the rocket push. Just because we were to young to notice or care didn't mean it wasn't happening. WWE are more forceful these days and less likely to move with organic support. When when we were younger, it was undeniable that people like Hogan, the Rock, Mick Foley, Stone Cold etc...had a groundswell of support and WWE would respond to it enthusiastically. With Daniel Bryan/Zack Ryder/Dolph Ziggler etc... for example, they didn't.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Aug 28, 2014 11:55:50 GMT -5
Yes. It's similar to the post about being jaded long term fans. WWE did the same thing with all of their major faces getting the rocket push. Just because we were to young to notice or care didn't mean it wasn't happening. WWE are more forceful these days and less likely to move with organic support. When when we were younger, it was undeniable that people like Hogan, the Rock, Mick Foley, Stone Cold etc...had a groundswell of support and WWE would respond to it enthusiastically. With Daniel Bryan/Zack Ryder/Dolph Ziggler etc... for example, they didn't. Hogan had a groundswell of support? He won the WWF title one month after he returned to the company Mankind debuted taking on and beating the Undertaker The Rock was massively promoted, they never really depushed him they just changed his character. Stone Cold's the only one of those guys WWE didn't try to rocket push. They just let the fans be convinced it was their idea
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Aug 28, 2014 12:12:43 GMT -5
Lesnar and Goldberg have/had personalities. They were intense tough guys who took no shit from anyone and didn't talk too much. if that counts as a personality then happy go lucky risk taking good guy like Kofi Kingston is should count as personality
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 28, 2014 15:55:11 GMT -5
Which then led to a groundswell of support.
The guys have to debut first, obviously.
Because the fans were shitting all over his Kofi Kingston character. That's why the change was required. Once they did it, support began to build.
Stone Cold's support was the fan's idea. WWE's initial idea was The Ringmaster Steve Austin. It was only when Austin himself realised how terrible their booking was that his character began to change, and the fans embraced it.
It's more of a default expression, rather than a personality.
He loses. He smiles. He loses again. He keeps smiling.
And so on...
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Aug 28, 2014 17:17:18 GMT -5
Which then led to a groundswell of support. The guys have to debut first, obviously. Because the fans were shitting all over his Kofi Kingston character. That's why the change was required. Once they did it, support began to build. Stone Cold's support was the fan's idea. WWE's initial idea was The Ringmaster Steve Austin. It was only when Austin himself realised how terrible their booking was that his character began to change, and the fans embraced it. those kinds of debuts count as manufacturing the groundswell of support. And I was saying Austin was the exception to the rocket push.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 28, 2014 17:38:15 GMT -5
No they don't. Debuts have to occur before support can.
He was the exception to the rocket push because WWE bogged him down with a shit gimmick.
It was only when the wrestler himself corrected their awful booking that he was able to build support.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Aug 28, 2014 17:42:23 GMT -5
No they don't. Debuts have to occur before support can. Daniel Bryan and CM Punk show that's not true
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2014 17:50:23 GMT -5
While you people are sitting at your comfy keyboards not liking faces, Reigns is training hard for YOU right now standing out in the rain.
He sees people go by with umbrellas and knows that it can never be that way for him.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 28, 2014 17:56:15 GMT -5
No they don't. Debuts have to occur before support can. Daniel Bryan and CM Punk show that's not true In their indie roles, maybe. Their WWE success needed the initial debut and big league spotlight first.
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Post by angryfan on Aug 28, 2014 18:35:39 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan and CM Punk show that's not true In their indie roles, maybe. Their WWE success needed the initial debut and big league spotlight first. Eh..."homegrown" is a misnomer, and WWE success seems (historically) predicated on "we have no idea who THIS guy is" even they all major stars have come in with some level of recognition. Hogan had been on the national stage with his Hulkamania gimmick getting over in AWA, Andre was a huge international star, Foley got "Cactus Jack" chants (mild, but they were there) on his debut...hell, the only "mega star" pre 2000 that didn't have success prior to coming to McMahonland was The Rock. That's it, he's the only guy who drew successfully for them that had no "outside recognition" coming in.
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deancubed
Don Corleone
Playing League of Legends
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Post by deancubed on Aug 29, 2014 8:16:39 GMT -5
The Usos are fantastic. Not only do they have some of the best matches every night and every PPV, no matter who their opponents are (excluding RybAxel), but they also have the rare capability to win almost all their matches while still maintaining Underdog status - something that if you don't balance on the tip of the pin, you either fall off one way and become Rey Mysterio who is an "underdog" while being predictable, or John Cena on the other side who is an "underdog" while being the franchise.
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Post by Hit Girl on Aug 29, 2014 10:37:14 GMT -5
In their indie roles, maybe. Their WWE success needed the initial debut and big league spotlight first. Eh..."homegrown" is a misnomer, and WWE success seems (historically) predicated on "we have no idea who THIS guy is" even they all major stars have come in with some level of recognition. Hogan had been on the national stage with his Hulkamania gimmick getting over in AWA, Andre was a huge international star, Foley got "Cactus Jack" chants (mild, but they were there) on his debut...hell, the only "mega star" pre 2000 that didn't have success prior to coming to McMahonland was The Rock. That's it, he's the only guy who drew successfully for them that had no "outside recognition" coming in. Daniel Bryan was brought in as a "rookie" to NXT, and what references to his indie past that were made were usually pissed on by Michael Cole.
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Post by angryfan on Aug 29, 2014 14:29:45 GMT -5
Eh..."homegrown" is a misnomer, and WWE success seems (historically) predicated on "we have no idea who THIS guy is" even they all major stars have come in with some level of recognition. Hogan had been on the national stage with his Hulkamania gimmick getting over in AWA, Andre was a huge international star, Foley got "Cactus Jack" chants (mild, but they were there) on his debut...hell, the only "mega star" pre 2000 that didn't have success prior to coming to McMahonland was The Rock. That's it, he's the only guy who drew successfully for them that had no "outside recognition" coming in. Daniel Bryan was brought in as a "rookie" to NXT, and what references to his indie past that were made were usually pissed on by Michael Cole. Not disagreeing. What I was saying was that their "homegrown" stars were all famous elsewhere. MCMahonland just pretended to have zero idea who any of them were or, in the case of DBD, openly mock said recognition. Foley was an international name big in Japan, Austin was a known upper-midcarder in WCW who caught fire in ECW, Hogan was a star main event level guy in AWA, and on and on and on.
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Post by sunnytaker on Aug 29, 2014 22:25:07 GMT -5
hmm ya know i don;t really have many faces left that i like either now that DB and Punk are out of the picture.
let's see
Jericho- Yes Big Show- nope Mark Henry- he's ok Sheamus- not since he started telling jokes Ziggler- Yes Usos- just the entrance Brie- nope Ambrose- meh Reigns- meh Kingston- nope Big E- losing interest fast Los Matadores- gimme a hell no! RVD- used to really like him now he's just meh Swagger- nope AJ- yes cena- nope (speaking in ring character only naturally)
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Post by sonofblaine on Aug 29, 2014 22:49:03 GMT -5
I agree with you. There are three on your list that I have a vested interest in but theres still problems. Reigns I like, but he is pretty dull on the stick. Ziggler I love but he's not really got anything good going on. And I like AJ, but I'm lukewarm to this crazy vs. crazy, pseudo-bisexual thing (I'm a LGBT supporter, but this storyline feels forced).
Aside from Ambrose (who's on a break), all my favorite guys are heels. But then, I was the kid in the 80s who liked Piper, Cobra and Skeletor more that Hogan, GI Joe, and He-Man.
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Post by benstudd on Aug 30, 2014 0:16:52 GMT -5
The Usos are fantastic. Not only do they have some of the best matches every night and every PPV, no matter who their opponents are (excluding RybAxel), but they also have the rare capability to win almost all their matches while still maintaining Underdog status - something that if you don't balance on the tip of the pin, you either fall off one way and become Rey Mysterio who is an "underdog" while being predictable, or John Cena on the other side who is an "underdog" while being the franchise. The thing with the USos is that they are talented but I find them and their whole act annoying as Hell. Which is something I never had a problem, with Mysterio. I was so happy when the Rhoses attacked them. in my book, the Rhodes are the faces. As far as other babyfaces, I like the way they are booking Swager. Althought I still think he should do more to come across as more likeable.
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