Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 31, 2014 18:01:17 GMT -5
I think that people are a little hard on Stephanie McMahon for her 9/11 comment where she brings up what was to that point the most personal tragedy of her life as a point of comparison, due in large part because of who was saying it. No, I'm not pulling the standard "If CM Punk did this-" horseshit, but people already had an opinion of Stephanie and this was very easy to twist to fit the narrative of the spoiled princess, glossing over the fact that "The US government is trying to put your dad in prison" would be scary as f*** to virtually anyone, regardless of what money you do or do not have. Who has time for empathy when there's time for snap judgments to direct your frustration in times of fear and anger? It was clumsy and unwise, but it was also a f***load more sincere and heartfelt than a lot of platitudes given by people in response to a number of tragedies. I'll take "meaning well but tripping" over "our PR department prepared a soulless, empty gesture for me to say today". The difference was, if you actually followed the case, and saw the fluke reason why Vince was found not guilty, you'd realize that unlike 9/11, her Daddy in all likelihood was responsible and guilty of the charges levied against him. That's what sticks in people craws. Vince was found not guilty, and no one can take that away from him, but he was hardly a government target and scapegoat. So her comparing a crime he *may have* committed and how it made her feel to how people victimized by 9/11 would feel is ridiculous and deserves all the scorn it gets. I get your point to a degree, but "Daddy" also goes a way towards proving mine. People approach it with a heavy bias, and coming from someone else, they'd have a much higher degree of sympathy. As to his guilt, I'm honestly not convinced they presented the best of cases, and this is coming from someone who thinks Vince was one carny motherf***er, only lessening somewhat over time, and wouldn't have put it past him to turn one hell of a blind eye. When one of the witnesses was Nailz, it's clear they did their share of scraping to try to make something stick, and they fell flat on their asses. Eh, I don't really expect many to agree with me, but it just bugs me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 18:20:19 GMT -5
Billy Gunn is possibly THE greatest tag wrestler of the last 20 years, he played a great straight man to Road Dogg and his athletic ability allowed for fun finished to matches from the Smoking Gunns to Billy & Chuck and everything in between.
Big Show when used right is one of the best guys on the roster, him as 2006 ECWs monster, him as an evil big bastard tag partner with Jericho, him as a killer brawler against Sheamus. He's genuinely very good in ring too. The sheer amount of crap stories/angles he's been put in does make him feel annoying to see, but he provides enough good feuds/matches and in person is *Cole/JR mode on* truly amazing to see! On TV you just can't see how big this man is! It's like a man playing with children!
I think outside of his finisher Kofi Kingston may have the most useless/least impactful moveset this side of Christian. Huge leaps, cool, impressive battle royale spots but damn it, make your leaping chops/dropkicks look like they have some strength!
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JTH
Dennis Stamp
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 3MB
Posts: 4,467
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Post by JTH on Aug 31, 2014 18:22:40 GMT -5
Cena is a better wrestler than Goldberg
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Aug 31, 2014 18:34:10 GMT -5
I think that people are a little hard on Stephanie McMahon for her 9/11 comment where she brings up what was to that point the most personal tragedy of her life as a point of comparison, due in large part because of who was saying it. No, I'm not pulling the standard "If CM Punk did this-" horseshit, but people already had an opinion of Stephanie and this was very easy to twist to fit the narrative of the spoiled princess, glossing over the fact that "The US government is trying to put your dad in prison" would be scary as f*** to virtually anyone, regardless of what money you do or do not have. Who has time for empathy when there's time for snap judgments to direct your frustration in times of fear and anger? It was clumsy and unwise, but it was also a f***load more sincere and heartfelt than a lot of platitudes given by people in response to a number of tragedies. I'll take "meaning well but tripping" over "our PR department prepared a soulless, empty gesture for me to say today". The difference was, if you actually followed the case, and saw the fluke reason why Vince was found not guilty, you'd realize that unlike 9/11, her Daddy in all likelihood was responsible and guilty of the charges levied against him. That's what sticks in people craws. Vince was found not guilty, and no one can take that away from him, but he was hardly a government target and scapegoat. So her comparing a crime he *may have* committed and how it made her feel to how people victimized by 9/11 would feel is ridiculous and deserves all the scorn it gets. Gonna have to agree with this one. Stehp's speech was just extremely tone-deaf on all levels to people that did lose family members in the attack.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 31, 2014 18:34:34 GMT -5
Cena is a better wrestler than Goldberg Goldberg has more physical talent, I'd say, but if we're talking who has had better matches, I'd also go with Cena. Goldberg had some classics, certainly, but fewer, in part due to him being willing to walk away when it was right for him. Can't fault him for that, but it puts him at a disadvantage here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 18:38:04 GMT -5
Cena is a better wrestler than Goldberg That would've been an unpopular opinion in 2005, maybe even 2008, but these days I'd say that's a pretty mainstream view.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 31, 2014 19:00:19 GMT -5
The more they get awesome? I loved Diesel. I loved Diesel too. But, I loved Bret more. Not me. I liked Bret, but I liked Diesel WAY more.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 31, 2014 19:06:03 GMT -5
I loved Diesel too. But, I loved Bret more. Not me. I liked Bret, but I liked Diesel WAY more. I've always had a fondness for Nash. He's just a cool dude.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 0:27:05 GMT -5
I loved Diesel too. But, I loved Bret more. Not me. I liked Bret, but I liked Diesel WAY more. I have diagrams to prove that you are incorrect. DIAGRAMS!
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Emmet Russell
King Koopa
Quieter
The best wrestler on earth.
Posts: 12,526
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Post by Emmet Russell on Sept 1, 2014 0:31:44 GMT -5
Emma is cringe-worthy beyond belief and Paige is vastly overrated.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Sept 1, 2014 1:23:50 GMT -5
Not me. I liked Bret, but I liked Diesel WAY more. I've always had a fondness for Nash. He's just a cool dude. His history of burying small guys is vastly overstated. He really did try to help the X Division in TNA, he let Mysterio eliminate him from the Rumble in 2011 as a receipt for the lawndarting in WCW, and recently he has been a vocal advocate for Ziggler.
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The Unconquered Sun
King Koopa
He has no pants! What a heathen!
Lord of Storms and Kittens!
Posts: 11,548
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Post by The Unconquered Sun on Sept 1, 2014 11:30:34 GMT -5
Having the part time Brock beat the Undertaker's streak made 0 sense. I'd rather had Cena end it, at least Cena is devoted to the business.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Sept 1, 2014 13:00:48 GMT -5
Emma is cringe-worthy beyond belief Yes, how did I forget this one? She reminds me of a girl playing wrestler
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
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Post by The Ichi on Sept 1, 2014 13:12:57 GMT -5
Having the part time Brock beat the Undertaker's streak made 0 sense. I'd rather had Cena end it, at least Cena is devoted to the business. I still don't get the "Brock has no devotion to the business!" thing. Since coming back, he's done pretty much everything that's been asked of him. He (stupidly, IMO) lost to Cena in his first match back, and laid down for HHH at Wrestlemania. If he's this primadonna that people claim, he's a pretty damn bad one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 13:22:44 GMT -5
Having the part time Brock beat the Undertaker's streak made 0 sense. I'd rather had Cena end it, at least Cena is devoted to the business. I still don't get the "Brock has no devotion to the business!" thing. Since coming back, he's done pretty much everything that's been asked of him. He (stupidly, IMO) lost to Cena in his first match back, and laid down for HHH at Wrestlemania. If he's this primadonna that people claim, he's a pretty damn bad one. He's a businessman in a business that makes a ton of money, for some reason this translates to the mercenary thing the WWE push as a kayfabe story reason people should hate Brock Lesnar. People tend to believe it's a bad thing but I'd rather someone put themselves first as long as they're willing to do what they're asked. It's all kayfabe stuff that's seemingly made people believe it's a genuine problem.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Sept 1, 2014 13:24:37 GMT -5
I could beat up anybody in this thread.
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Post by Ashy Larry on Sept 1, 2014 13:29:23 GMT -5
I don't think he needs to put on bulk, but I think Ambrose/Moxley at his current build would look perfectly fine in trunks. I found him back in his evolve and FCW days a little skinny, but you might be right. I think we can agree in the importance of trunks, the miz was only taken serious after he wrestled in trunks, Jericho was already over, but he understood the importance in wearing them, it's one of vkm's pet peeves. Vince also hates singlets. Miz during his 2007 - 2008 run wasn't built you can say, once he wore trunks he developed a passable upper mid carder/main event physique. Christian from his 2003 - 2005 run would've done better in trunks, not the way he looks now since he's not built anymore. Vince had a weird fetish for it. He probably wouldn't have made the blue dot joke if Christian wore trunks.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 1, 2014 13:42:59 GMT -5
I found him back in his evolve and FCW days a little skinny, but you might be right. I think we can agree in the importance of trunks, the miz was only taken serious after he wrestled in trunks, Jericho was already over, but he understood the importance in wearing them, it's one of vkm's pet peeves. Vince also hates singlets. Miz during his 2007 - 2008 run wasn't built you can say, once he wore trunks he developed a passable upper mid carder/main event physique. Christian from his 2003 - 2005 run would've done better in trunks, not the way he looks now since he's not built anymore. Vince had a weird fetish for it. He probably wouldn't have made the blue dot joke if Christian wore trunks. Yeah, Miz told the story on Talk is Jericho, when he wrestled as the masked "Calgary Kid" he wore trunks, after the match Vince made the comment that Miz had good looking legs or something, after being creeped out, an agent explained to Miz that the top guys wore trunks. It's funny that you mention Christian, before the blue dot joke, he had hopes for Christian, he made him cut his hair, allegedly another one of McMahon's pet peeves is for his heels to not have long hair. Vince really loved the "CLB" peep character, who knows maybe Christian back in 05 with trunks, could've been in the main event.
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The Unconquered Sun
King Koopa
He has no pants! What a heathen!
Lord of Storms and Kittens!
Posts: 11,548
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Post by The Unconquered Sun on Sept 1, 2014 13:47:15 GMT -5
Having the part time Brock beat the Undertaker's streak made 0 sense. I'd rather had Cena end it, at least Cena is devoted to the business. I still don't get the "Brock has no devotion to the business!" thing. Since coming back, he's done pretty much everything that's been asked of him. He (stupidly, IMO) lost to Cena in his first match back, and laid down for HHH at Wrestlemania. If he's this primadonna that people claim, he's a pretty damn bad one. I'm not calling him a primadonna at all. But in 29 months he's had, what a dozen matchs? Now compare that to the guys working 300 days a year, plus public appearances. Who sounds more devoted to the to the company now? I like the guys that are loyal to the business and fans.
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Bo Rida
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Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 1, 2014 15:00:04 GMT -5
People often say criticising a wrestler for a small thing is nit-picking, however wrestling's inherently ridiculous nature means the whole thing can fall apart on those small flaws because they often ruin the suspension of disbelief. It's not really much different to seeing the row of knotted handkerchiefs sticking out of a magicians sleeve. Heckling has it's place in wrestling and many types of live performance, if a wrestler can successfully deal with such a crowd it can add to the entertainment and help them win the respect of an audience including those watching at home. Cena's masterclass at ONS2 (which included the t-shirt throwing) helped win him a lot of respect while Big Show's responding to a "You can't wrestle" chant with "I don't have to" was in sharp contrast to Batista's tantrum. Admittedly there are times heckling is inappropriate or particularly moronic but I'm speaking generally. -Roman Reigns' "amazing potential" is the best example of an informed ability in wrestling right now. Even the people who think he's getting pushed too fast and too soon still parrot this. So mission accomplished, WWE. Potential is not an ability. Potential is what's possible, what he may be capable of becoming in the future. As JR would say he has all the tools (look, charisma, athletic background etc) he already did well in The Shield and his wrestling family and WWE being behind him means he should get every chance to allow him to realise that potential. WWE don't need to tell us, we can see it even we don't like him or have strong doubts he'll ever realise that potential.
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