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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 1, 2014 23:06:25 GMT -5
In such a situation, the guy would be escorted from the premises and you'd be given a chance to bowl your last ball again
And in any case, Cena wasn't on the verge of victory. It was still up in the air. Lesnar had spent most of the match pummelling him, interrupted occasionally by an AA or STF.
I'd also believe Cena's rage more if WWE were able for a single second to convince the audience that these title reigns even mean anything at all, given the sheer number he's had already. If it was the culmination of a hard drawn out struggle, where Cena was accomplishing a long sought after goal, then it would be more believable. If it's winning a title he held only a month earlier, I'm less convinced.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Oct 1, 2014 23:11:35 GMT -5
It's not an argument though when people try to dismiss something as illogical because they don't like the fact that it's taking away from another feud. People are trying to act like Cena shouldn't be pissed at Rollins at all, despite the fact that it makes perfect sense for him to be mad at him. And the reason why I call out this hypocrisy is because time and time again certain guys like Punk NEVER get called out on being assholes, but the second Cena or Sheamus or The Miz (when he was face) does something there's always tons of people complaining about how they're supposed to be faces But if you want a real world example to explain this: Imagine you're in a big bowling tournament and you made it to the finals. Your opponent is beating you but if you get a strike on the last frame, you win the tournament. As you're about to bowl your last ball, some guy comes up to you and shoves you, causing you to throw a gutter ball and lose. I can guarantee you your reaction would be "I'd have had it if not for that asshole" which is what Cena has now. Which would be fine except for the fact that in the next aisle over, there's another guy, who just got his head crushed onto a pile of bowling bowls by that same guy who ruined the game, his best friend, almost killing that guy, and now we're supposed to act like the complete insignificance of that first idiot's bowling match somehow is equal to the latter guy's trauma and impending quest for retribution. First bowler has a right to be angry, sure. But he should be content to let the guy with the real actual problem deal with his MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT AND RELATABLE ISSUE and just get back to bowling another championship game that he'll just gifted anyway since the entire league's built around him. To paraphrase Junior Soprano, John Cena is like a woman with a Virginia ham under each arm, crying cause she hasn’t got any bread. If we were to look at everything as 4 normal people, then yes Ambrose would have more reason to be mad. However in the WWE's lore, Seth Rollins essentially prevented a man from killing Satan and banishing him back to Hell. Yeah Cena didn't get almost murdered by Rollins...well they actually did try that last week, but even so I don't like the fact that people are saying Cena shouldn't be pissed at Rollins at all. You could also say Ambrose got his hands on the guy at NOC already and Cena wants his turn to beat the guy up
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 1, 2014 23:12:58 GMT -5
Again, no one's saying Cena can't be mad. He's perfectly justified there, but again, ultimately his goal should be beating his opponent.
The bowling analogy doesn't really work--yeah you'd feel "man I'd have it it wasn't for that asshole." But you wouldn't then bowl against said asshole, ignoring your previous tournament opponent entirely.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 1, 2014 23:14:17 GMT -5
Lesnar isn't Satan. Even as a nominal heel, he comes across as fairly lukewarm. For many, Lesnar is the face by default because Cena is so oversaturated, hypocritical, inconsistent and obnoxious. It's booking with contrived designated roles that don't conform to what is actually being shown on TV. Cena is the hero because.....of some reason. Lesnar is the bad guy because.....I don't know.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Oct 1, 2014 23:14:28 GMT -5
Again, no one's saying Cena can't be mad. He's perfectly justified there, but again, ultimately his goal should be beating his opponent. The bowling analogy doesn't really work--yeah you'd feel "man I'd have it it wasn't for that asshole." But you wouldn't then bowl against said asshole, ignoring your previous tournament opponent entirely. The title of this thread is "Get the f*** over it, Cena" I think some people want him to not be mad. And yeah you wouldn't bowl against the asshole, but you'd probably want to punch him in the gut for what he did. You wouldn't beat up the guy you lost to though Lesnar isn't Satan. Even as a nominal heel, he comes across as fairly lukewarm. For many, Lesnar is the face by default because Cena is so oversaturated, hypocritical, inconsistent and obnoxious. It's booking with contrived designated roles that don't conform to what is actually being shown on TV. Cena is the hero because.....of some reason. Lesnar is the bad guy because.....I don't know. And that's stupid. Lesnar is not a face in any way shape or form. That's not how face and heel work. Face is good guy, heel is bad guy. Lesnar is a megalomaniac who beats people up for stacks of huge cash and doesn't care about anything else. He's the bad guy, period.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 1, 2014 23:15:29 GMT -5
Again, no one's saying Cena can't be mad. He's perfectly justified there, but again, ultimately his goal should be beating his opponent. The bowling analogy doesn't really work--yeah you'd feel "man I'd have it it wasn't for that asshole." But you wouldn't then bowl against said asshole, ignoring your previous tournament opponent entirely. The title of this thread is "Get the f*** over it, Cena" I think some people want him to not be mad. And yeah you wouldn't bowl against the asshole, but you'd probably want to punch him in the gut for what he did. You wouldn't beat up the guy you lost to though Well no of course not, you'd bowl against him. That's the 1-1 comparison.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 1, 2014 23:19:22 GMT -5
I see
Work for money = Heel.
Gotcha.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 1, 2014 23:22:08 GMT -5
They all wrestle for the winner's share of the purse /Monsoon
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Oct 1, 2014 23:24:41 GMT -5
I see Work for money = Heel. Gotcha. Yeah and I don't get how Cena is a good guy. He's a hypocritical wanker who treats his friends like garbage.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 23:28:34 GMT -5
Now in this bowling analogy, who is Roy Munson and who is Big Ern McCracken?
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saintpat
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Post by saintpat on Oct 1, 2014 23:30:14 GMT -5
Aren't people usually mad when Cena shrugs off a setback? Now they're complaining that he cares too much? To paint a world full of greys in black and white is a waste of thought. Cena's just incredibly inconsistent, Dean Ambrose has more to be pissed about and if Cena's pride gets in the way of him seeing that then he's a tool. Well I have more of a right to be pissed about how Cena is being booked right now than most anybody on this thread ... so everyone else needs to delete their messages and quit trying to get to it before me!!!!!!
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 1, 2014 23:37:46 GMT -5
It's all a moot point anyway. Reigns beat Rollins before either of them did.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 1, 2014 23:50:08 GMT -5
It's all a moot point anyway. Reigns beat Rollins before either of them did. In this situation does that really matter? Neither Cena nor Ambrose's actual objective is to beat him in a match. Their objective is to pound him into a pulp for wronging them. I think there is room in this feud for both of them, but they cant both wrestle Rollins at HiaC. Ideally, Rollins and Ambrose should blow off their feud in the Cell while Cena should face Rollins at Survivor Series.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 23:55:28 GMT -5
I'm not going to say LESSSSNAR is a good guy... If the dude was fighting Cesaro, D. Bryan, Ziggler, Kofi or somebody, I guarantee people would boo the shit out of BURRRRROCK LESSSSNAR.
But c'mon, man. At least LESSSNAR is transparent and plain about who he is and what he's going to do. He's a jacked-up, bullying, prickly **** who doesn't much care about wrestling further than who he can beat up and what type of money he's making while doing it.
He's totally a mercenary. I think the thing that makes him...endearing...is the fact that there have never been attempts to try to get him to be everything else in this run.
Him winning the WWE title = more money. Him beating the shit out of John Cena once or twice to do it is a personal plus. In a way, that earnestness is what makes D. Bryan work for me as a face. That earnestness is what makes BURRROCK LESSSNAR a character you can actually understand, and when the guy he was going against has a history of title shots (and only caring about them at random) to go along with really janky logic...
I mean... I'm not surprised people don't have any tolerance to hear Cena of all people whine about a title match or the WWE Universe imploding because he ain't on the top of it. This is a dude who gave up a title match once because he knew he was in the position to get them whenever he wanted, after all.
He blew off wanting to beat the shit out The Rock right after this dude dropped him and cost him the main at SportsEntertainmentMania.
After catching a beating by the same dude twice, now I'm supposed to believe he really thinks that shit matters? Yeah. I'mma need his monkey ass to get over it, too. He's gonna get the title again, just like he always has and there's no reason for me to believe he isn't as far as WWE narratives go.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 1, 2014 23:56:23 GMT -5
It's all a moot point anyway. Reigns beat Rollins before either of them did. In this situation does that really matter? Neither Cena nor Ambrose's actual objective is to beat him in a match. Their objective is to pound him into a pulp for wronging them. I think there is room in this feud for both of them, but they cant both wrestle Rollins at HiaC. Ideally, Rollins and Ambrose should blow off their feud in the Cell while Cena should face Rollins at Survivor Series. Well, no it doesn't matter. My comment was more tongue-in-cheek about the anger there was at the time about it (I remember people at the time saying "Why should I care about Ambrose's revenge after this, he's just going after "sloppy seconds" now" and stuff like that).
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 2, 2014 0:11:56 GMT -5
To be fair, that was really dumb. Especially giving away the victory on Raw when they were just gonna put the same match on ppv before Reigns hernia was no longer a fugitive.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 2, 2014 0:16:15 GMT -5
I'm not going to say LESSSSNAR is a good guy... If the dude was fighting Cesaro, D. Bryan, Ziggler, Kofi or somebody, I guarantee people would boo the shit out of BURRRRROCK LESSSSNAR. But c'mon, man. At least LESSSNAR is transparent and plain about who he is and what he's going to do. He's a jacked-up, bullying, prickly **** who doesn't much care about wrestling further than who he can beat up and what type of money he's making while doing it. He's totally a mercenary. I think the thing that makes him...endearing...is the fact that there have never been attempts to try to get him to be everything else in this run. Him winning the WWE title = more money. Him beating the shit out of John Cena once or twice to do it is a personal plus. In a way, that earnestness is what makes D. Bryan work for me as a face. That earnestness is what makes BURRROCK LESSSNAR a character you can actually understand, and when the guy he was going against has a history of title shots (and only caring about them at random) to go along with really janky logic... I mean... I'm not surprised people don't have any tolerance to hear Cena of all people whine about a title match or the WWE Universe imploding because he ain't on the top of it. This is a dude who gave up a title match once because he knew he was in the position to get them whenever he wanted, after all. He blew off wanting to beat the shit out The Rock right after this dude dropped him and cost him the main at SportsEntertainmentMania. After catching a beating by the same dude twice, now I'm supposed to believe he really thinks that shit matters? Yeah. I'mma need his monkey ass to get over it, too. He's gonna get the title again, just like he always has and there's no reason for me to believe he isn't as far as WWE narratives go. I read this entire post with the voice of John Candy in JFK playing that jive talking lawyer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 0:25:25 GMT -5
I read this entire post with the voice of John Candy in JFK playing that jive talking lawyer. You mean Attorney Dean Andrews? Eh. I'm a Southern boy an' ah do fancy turnin' that jive off an' on in my posts, ya dig? I just don't because nobody wants to read 18 paragraphs of that shit. ...and then too, if you do it people think it's cool for everyone to do it so it just sounds like people poking fun.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Oct 2, 2014 0:50:55 GMT -5
Once again, I find multiple levels of "what were they thinking?" here.
1: John Cena has the "right" to be upset with Seth. That's fine. That's totally understandable, since Seth MAY have cost him the WWE Championship. BUT...why did that happen?!? The cash in didn't succeed. Seth still has the case. The Authority didn't put him up to it. He REALLY doesn't seem like the type of dude who would attempt to pick a fight with the BEAST. Seth even apologized to Lesnar for what he did...and had that apology was accepted. There is no reason for Seth to have caused the disqualification EXCEPT to keep Cena from losing. So yeah, Cena's got a right want revenge...for something that was only done to provoke that response. It's lazy writing.
2: Cena keeps saying that "Lesnar only does it for the money". But we've SEEN his friggin' car collection (including his own Cenamobile) and his gym that looks like it fell should be a part of the International Space Station. Are we supposed to think that stuff is cheap and or free? For that matter, what about all the merch? How can Cena be so brazen as to say "Brock only cares about money" while coming to the ring dressed as a living billboard. T-shirts, wristbands, and that stupid towel. The towel is what does it for me. He may as well be holding up a sign that says "BUY THIS!"
3: In all of Lesnar's interviews, he's been pretty mild-mannered. Aside from that thing with Big Johnny, he never even mentions money. It's all "I came back to this company to the be the best and win the championship". Where did the "Mercenary" thing even come from? He came back for one match and then "quit". Just about every match he's had since then (up until the Cena match) has been because somebody ELSE challenged him. Or, you know, threatened/attacked his friend.
If WWE doesn't want Lesnar to be the face (and they CERTAINLY don't want want Cena to be the heel), then for the love of Pete, stop writing Cena like an unabashed hypocrite and Lesnar as the most GENUINE PERSON SINCE STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 0:53:30 GMT -5
To paint a world full of greys in black and white is a waste of thought. Cena's just incredibly inconsistent, Dean Ambrose has more to be pissed about and if Cena's pride gets in the way of him seeing that then he's a tool. Well I have more of a right to be pissed about how Cena is being booked right now than most anybody on this thread ... so everyone else needs to delete their messages and quit trying to get to it before me!!!!!! After Cena broke into your home and stole every pen he could find in order to write himself a better character arc I'm not surprised you want to see him suffer.
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