SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
|
Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 2, 2014 1:23:34 GMT -5
Which would be fine except for the fact that in the next aisle over, there's another guy, who just got his head crushed onto a pile of bowling bowls by that same guy who ruined the game, his best friend, almost killing that guy, and now we're supposed to act like the complete insignificance of that first idiot's bowling match somehow is equal to the latter guy's trauma and impending quest for retribution. First bowler has a right to be angry, sure. But he should be content to let the guy with the real actual problem deal with his MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT AND RELATABLE ISSUE and just get back to bowling another championship game that he'll just gifted anyway since the entire league's built around him. To paraphrase Junior Soprano, John Cena is like a woman with a Virginia ham under each arm, crying cause she hasn’t got any bread. If we were to look at everything as 4 normal people, then yes Ambrose would have more reason to be mad. However in the WWE's lore, Seth Rollins essentially prevented a man from killing Satan and banishing him back to Hell. Yeah Cena didn't get almost murdered by Rollins...well they actually did try that last week, but even so I don't like the fact that people are saying Cena shouldn't be pissed at Rollins at all. You could also say Ambrose got his hands on the guy at NOC already and Cena wants his turn to beat the guy up The Satan analogy doesn't really work because Brock really isn't evil or out to corrupt anything. He's just a superior athlete who physically obliterated Cena through sheer dominance. He's not a nice guy, sure, but as far as Cena's recent experience's go, the worst thing Lesnar did to him was kick his ass straight up in a fair fight. Everything else is birthed from Cena's own insecurities and shortcomings. Obsessively chasing Rollins from town to town does not bring John any reward or any closer to the belt and Lesnar. It's an unnecessary sidetrack. The bottom line is, until Monday, Cena's biggest problem with Rollins was interrupting a title match he'll get again regardless and forever. And people's problem with it, is that narrative is trying to suggest both vendettas are equal. They are not. It's B& E vs. attempted homicide. And the B&E guy is throwing the almost-muder victim out of the way so he can get "justice" first when his big plight is laughably insignificant in comparison.
|
|
|
Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 2, 2014 1:42:01 GMT -5
The Satan analogy also doesn't hold because the guy claiming that the sky is falling because Brock Lesnar is champion is the guy who obsessive lives, eats, sleeps, and breathes the awesomeness of the WWE corporation. Cena is the very model of the corporate champion that 1998 Vince McMahon the TV character so wanted. But the people in charge don't want Cena to be champion. And despite being a company Guy, Cena isn't going to fall in line and follow the corrupt evil family in charge. Cena's character really isn't that "corporate champion". The dude still wears Jorts for crying out loud.
|
|
|
Post by Hobby Drifter on Oct 2, 2014 1:53:57 GMT -5
That's another interesting point. Why the hell ISN'T Cena the corporate champion that the Authority wants? I mean, other than because he's a "face" and they're heels? The dude has eaten, breathed, *****, and otherwise LIVED WWE for more than a decade. He's LITERALLY their poster boy. A 15 time world champion who has NEVER had to cheat to win of those titles. Even when it's required that he take time off, he'd rather rush back early than have to spend more time than necessary wrestling, traveling, visiting sick kids, doing interviews, signing autographs, posing for publicity shots, etc.
Just what is it about him that the Authority DOESN'T like? Considering that the other people they've backed as "best for business" are Randy freakin' Orton and (just) Kane...it makes zero sense.
Meanwhile, the guy who they reluctantly picked to be their guy is not only capable of legitimately dominating everybody else on the roster...but he broke BOTH of HHH's arms, HBK's arm, AND trashed HHH's office. When was the last time HHH and Cena had any kind of beef? The Bush administration? Hell, Cena was one of like three guys who DIDN'T walk out on the HHH-led RAW.
Is there ANY excuse for this beyond "lazy storytelling"?
|
|
Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
Eternally Confused
Posts: 13,482
|
Post by Malcolm on Oct 2, 2014 1:57:19 GMT -5
That's another interesting point. Why the hell ISN'T Cena the corporate champion that the Authority wants? I mean, other than because he's a "face" and they're heels? The dude has eaten, breathed, *****, and otherwise LIVED WWE for more than a decade. He's LITERALLY their poster boy. A 15 time world champion who has NEVER had to cheat to win of those titles. Even when it's required that he take time off, he'd rather rush back early than have to spend more time than necessary wrestling, traveling, visiting sick kids, doing interviews, signing autographs, posing for publicity shots, etc. Just what is it about him that the Authority DOESN'T like? Considering that the other people they've backed as "best for business" are Randy freakin' Orton and (just) Kane...it makes zero sense. Meanwhile, the guy who they reluctantly picked to be their guy is not only capable of legitimately dominating everybody else on the roster...but he broke BOTH of HHH's arms, HBK's arm, AND trashed HHH's office. When was the last time HHH and Cena had any kind of beef? The Bush administration? Hell, Cena was one of like three guys who DIDN'T walk out on the HHH-led RAW. Is there ANY excuse for this beyond "lazy storytelling"? Because he doesn't agree with how they run things and abuse their power? In other words he loves the company itself but not the people in charge.
|
|
|
Post by Hobby Drifter on Oct 2, 2014 2:08:37 GMT -5
Because he doesn't agree with how they run things and abuse their power? Are there any examples of that? Because it was the Authority that made Cena the Number One contender to Randy Orton's newly won WWE Championship. They screwed Bryan three months in a row, but just said "Randy. Your next opponent is John Cena. Fight." Even though he lost that match, he still wound up getting the belt eventually. A few strong words here and there are the extent of his displeasure. But he's done nothing to back those words up. He still does all that PR stuff forthe company led by people "he doesn't agree with". Hell, he's on TOTAL DIVAS for cryin' out loud. He is completely obsessed with being the FACE and CHAMPION of the WWE...a company run by people he doesn't agree with. WWE has been primarily run by heels since 1996. And Cena has been THE GUY since, what, like 2004? He might not *like* HHH and Steph, but he sure as hell cashes all those main-event paychecks and accepts all those main-event title matches. Ever see Daredevil? When Matt's dad tells Fallon "I don't work for you no more?" and Fallon replies "Jack...you never stopped". THAT is Cena. He may not go out and pummel whoever the Authority wants him to, but you can bet your ass that if they booked him against those guys in actual matches, he'd do everything in power to win. Heh. Just ask Rey Mysterio.
|
|
|
Post by Hobby Drifter on Oct 2, 2014 2:08:59 GMT -5
Because he doesn't agree with how they run things and abuse their power? Are there any examples of that? Because it was the Authority that made Cena the Number One contender to Randy Orton's newly won WWE Championship. They screwed Bryan three months in a row, but just said "Randy. Your next opponent is John Cena. Fight." Even though he lost that match, he still wound up getting the belt eventually. A few strong words here and there are the extent of his displeasure. But he's done nothing to back those words up. He still does all that PR stuff forthe company led by people "he doesn't agree with". Hell, he's on TOTAL DIVAS for cryin' out loud. He is completely obsessed with being the FACE and CHAMPION of the WWE...a company run by people he doesn't agree with. WWE has been primarily run by heels since 1996. And Cena has been THE GUY since, what, like 2004? He might not *like* HHH and Steph, but he sure as hell cashes all those main-event paychecks and accepts all those main-event title matches. Ever see Daredevil? When Matt's dad tells Fallon "I don't work for you no more?" and Fallon replies "Jack...you never stopped". THAT is Cena. He may not go out and pummel whoever the Authority wants him to, but you can bet your ass that if they booked him against those guys in actual matches, he'd do everything in power to win. Heh. Just ask Rey Mysterio.
|
|
SEAN CARLESS
Hank Scorpio
More of a B+ player, actually
I'm Necessary Evil.
Posts: 5,770
|
Post by SEAN CARLESS on Oct 2, 2014 2:22:30 GMT -5
But the people in charge don't want Cena to be champion. And despite being a company Guy, Cena isn't going to fall in line and follow the corrupt evil family in charge. Cena's character really isn't that "corporate champion". The dude still wears Jorts for crying out loud. That the Authority has expressed concern about Cena being champion is just something that when one follows the storyline makes little sense. Other TV characters wouldn't behave like the Authority has. Cena talks up WWE all the time. Cena is the Mickey Mouse of WWE at this point. Cena's not certainly anti-management, he's just anti-bad management. Which is still weird, because the character basically has said "I have no life without this corporation." Which, to me at least, comes across like John Cena the wrestling character has some serious mental health problems, which, at the very least, could be one way to explain his consistent inconsistency like this recent nonsense with Rollins when Rollins should be Ambrose's hit. A corporate champ today doesn't have to look like a member of the Four Horseman from 1987. He just has to be a walking, talking advertisement that says very little in terms of substance and comes across to many as being phony. In a world where WWE is listed on the NASDAQ, Cena is the Perfect Cell (from Dragonball Z) of corporate wrestling started when Vince McMahon expanded his territory business back in the 1980s. We know in reality that Cena makes WWE money, so why does the kayfabe world pretend that Cena is some rebellious spirit dyed from the same wool as someone like Steve Austin? Instead of pretending that Cena makes WWE money to the point of being a multi-millionare in spite of himself... Brock Lesnar is really the other side of the same coin, at least he's honest about it to himself and to others, and that's why he comes across as a face when he feuds with Cena more than Cena does when he feuds with Lesnar. Lesnar is not the paragon of babyface virtue in the vein of a Ricky Steamboat. He's just less full of shit than the other guy, ergo, he's a face. That's the reality of babyfacedom and heeldom today, and why so many heels come across like faces, because they are less full of shit than the babyfaces who are booked like heels but perceived in the TV world that is the 'WWE universe' as faces. Lesnar is the brute force nature of making money in WWE: his freakish size and strength is the spectacle that makes him marketable. Cena is the goofy smile or dumb joke that is the brute force of making money veiled by the spectacle of spectacle itself (in the vein of Guy Debord: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle). The fact that Cena is a version of Mickey Mouse who can kick some ass doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day Cena is still Mickey Mouse, a mascot to a multi-million dollar corporation. When Cena drones on about how awesome he is and how awesome WWE is and how awesome WWE is because he's in it, you can see the same deadened emptiness in his eyes like when you see Mickey Mouse's affixed grin plastered all over Disney's merchandised crap. Fantastic post. One of my favorites ever on here. People who keep arguing the same silly point should read this a few dozen times. This sums up the Cena character in a nutshell, and why it is so rejected by a certain contingent of fans.
|
|
|
Post by baerrtt on Oct 2, 2014 3:27:09 GMT -5
The impression I get is that HHH, kayfabe wise (though this aspect of the angle might be drawn on how poorly he viewed Cena for real years ago), has personally never really cared for John as the face of the company and John's disagreements with him and Steph has just furthered that flame. Irregardless of Cena's success Trips probably always saw that spot for Orton or Batista (or indeed even Brock as it was supposed to) and as irrational as that may be the whole point of the Bryan vs Authority angle was to show how the latter's decisions had less to do with what's 'best for business' and more to do with personal bias.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 4:09:50 GMT -5
The impression I get is that HHH, kayfabe wise (though this aspect of the angle might be drawn on how poorly he viewed Cena for real years ago), has personally never really cared for John as the face of the company and John's disagreements with him and Steph has just furthered that flame. Irregardless of Cena's success Trips probably always saw that spot for Orton or Batista (or indeed even Brock as it was supposed to) and as irrational as that may be the whole point of the Bryan vs Authority angle was to show how the latter's decisions had less to do with what's 'best for business' and more to do with personal bias.
|
|
|
Post by CM Parish on Oct 2, 2014 4:18:59 GMT -5
Why can't Cena just go after Brock saying that he would have beaten him whilst being happy knowing the fact that someone is going to kick Rollins' ass for him anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 2, 2014 6:19:42 GMT -5
That's another interesting point. Why the hell ISN'T Cena the corporate champion that the Authority wants? I mean, other than because he's a "face" and they're heels? The dude has eaten, breathed, *****, and otherwise LIVED WWE for more than a decade. He's LITERALLY their poster boy. A 15 time world champion who has NEVER had to cheat to win of those titles. Even when it's required that he take time off, he'd rather rush back early than have to spend more time than necessary wrestling, traveling, visiting sick kids, doing interviews, signing autographs, posing for publicity shots, etc. Just what is it about him that the Authority DOESN'T like? Considering that the other people they've backed as "best for business" are Randy freakin' Orton and (just) Kane...it makes zero sense. Meanwhile, the guy who they reluctantly picked to be their guy is not only capable of legitimately dominating everybody else on the roster...but he broke BOTH of HHH's arms, HBK's arm, AND trashed HHH's office. When was the last time HHH and Cena had any kind of beef? The Bush administration? Hell, Cena was one of like three guys who DIDN'T walk out on the HHH-led RAW. Is there ANY excuse for this beyond "lazy storytelling"? Because he doesn't agree with how they run things and abuse their power? In other words he loves the company itself but not the people in charge. And he never does one thing to attempt to truly rebel against the people in charge. He's like an ineffectual middle manager. Cena is Bill Lumberg.
|
|
|
Post by thelonewolf527 on Oct 2, 2014 6:28:42 GMT -5
Why can't Cena just go after Brock saying that he would have beaten him whilst being happy knowing the fact that someone is going to kick Rollins' ass for him anyway. Cuz Brock's at home counting his money, drinking a Coors Light, and f***ing his wife
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 2, 2014 6:37:29 GMT -5
I'm just wondering how long until this sentiment REALLY starts affecting his crowd reactions again beyond the normal 50/50 heat he's been getting since forever like it did in 2005/2006. I was seeing posts in the RAW thread saying he was getting a smaller reaction than normal... not more heel heat, but less heat PERIOD.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 2, 2014 7:41:07 GMT -5
May be like Hogan circa 92--people in general are finally burned out, or getting there.
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Oct 2, 2014 8:32:39 GMT -5
Well I have more of a right to be pissed about how Cena is being booked right now than most anybody on this thread ... so everyone else needs to delete their messages and quit trying to get to it before me!!!!!! After Cena broke into your home and stole every pen he could find in order to write himself a better character arc I'm not surprised you want to see him suffer. I totally don't get the "step aside logic" that Cena shouldn't go after someone who wronged him just because he wronged someone else too. They both should be going after Rollins, which ... they are. I don't remember any threads discussing whether HHH or Orton or Batista most "deserved" to get their hands on Bryan and how the others should drop it.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Oct 2, 2014 8:58:42 GMT -5
But the people in charge don't want Cena to be champion. And despite being a company Guy, Cena isn't going to fall in line and follow the corrupt evil family in charge. Cena's character really isn't that "corporate champion". The dude still wears Jorts for crying out loud. That the Authority has expressed concern about Cena being champion is just something that when one follows the storyline makes little sense. Other TV characters wouldn't behave like the Authority has. Cena talks up WWE all the time. Cena is the Mickey Mouse of WWE at this point. Cena's not certainly anti-management, he's just anti-bad management. Which is still weird, because the character basically has said "I have no life without this corporation." Which, to me at least, comes across like John Cena the wrestling character has some serious mental health problems, which, at the very least, could be one way to explain his consistent inconsistency like this recent nonsense with Rollins when Rollins should be Ambrose's hit. A corporate champ today doesn't have to look like a member of the Four Horseman from 1987. He just has to be a walking, talking advertisement that says very little in terms of substance and comes across to many as being phony. In a world where WWE is listed on the NASDAQ, Cena is the Perfect Cell (from Dragonball Z) of corporate wrestling started when Vince McMahon expanded his territory business back in the 1980s. We know in reality that Cena makes WWE money, so why does the kayfabe world pretend that Cena is some rebellious spirit dyed from the same wool as someone like Steve Austin? Instead of pretending that Cena makes WWE money to the point of being a multi-millionare in spite of himself... Brock Lesnar is really the other side of the same coin, at least he's honest about it to himself and to others, and that's why he comes across as a face when he feuds with Cena more than Cena does when he feuds with Lesnar. Lesnar is not the paragon of babyface virtue in the vein of a Ricky Steamboat. He's just less full of shit than the other guy, ergo, he's a face. That's the reality of babyfacedom and heeldom today, and why so many heels come across like faces, because they are less full of shit than the babyfaces who are booked like heels but perceived in the TV world that is the 'WWE universe' as faces. Lesnar is the brute force nature of making money in WWE: his freakish size and strength is the spectacle that makes him marketable. Cena is the goofy smile or dumb joke that is the brute force of making money veiled by the spectacle of spectacle itself (in the vein of Guy Debord: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle). The fact that Cena is a version of Mickey Mouse who can kick some ass doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day Cena is still Mickey Mouse, a mascot to a multi-million dollar corporation. When Cena drones on about how awesome he is and how awesome WWE is and how awesome WWE is because he's in it, you can see the same deadened emptiness in his eyes like when you see Mickey Mouse's affixed grin plastered all over Disney's merchandised crap. The Authority are heels. They don't really want a corporate champion or what's "best for business". They want to protect their cronies, who protect them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 9:09:23 GMT -5
I'm just wondering how long until this sentiment REALLY starts affecting his crowd reactions again beyond the normal 50/50 heat he's been getting since forever like it did in 2005/2006. I was seeing posts in the RAW thread saying he was getting a smaller reaction than normal... not more heel heat, but less heat PERIOD. It sort of wavered on Raw really. He got a pop for initially attacking Rollins at the start of the show but it quickly turned into booing, then when he attacked Rollins again at the end of it, they were dead silent.
|
|
|
Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Oct 2, 2014 9:25:22 GMT -5
I honestly can't think too hard about why John Cena isn't their corporate backed Champion because then I'll think about why the weird offscreen neverseen "Board of Directors" is ok with Steph and Hunter's new chosen guy committing attempted homicide on another employee by driving his head through cinderblocks.
I just like to think they're hypocritical dumbasses.
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 2, 2014 9:33:40 GMT -5
I honestly can't think too hard about why John Cena isn't their corporate backed Champion because then I'll think about why the weierd offscreen neverseen "Board of Directors" is ok with Steph and Hunter's new chosen guy committing attempted homocide on another employee by driving his head through cinderblocks. I just like to think they're hypocritical dumbasses. I just go back to other Board Of Directors theories that I've seen around the place, like they're just Vince rapidly switching between outfits and accents, or that it's just one wooden plank like that kid in Ed, Edd and Eddy had.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 2, 2014 9:35:09 GMT -5
I like the idea that it's just a big room filled with Empty Chairs that Vince carries on full conversations with.
|
|