ededdneddy
Hank Scorpio
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Post by ededdneddy on Oct 17, 2014 0:34:01 GMT -5
I remember when John Cena was cutting that awesome promo at the WWE Championship Ascension he went on and on about putting people over and when he talked about CM Punk over CM Punk had this "dude, f*** you" face . I remember this and to be honest I always felt that Cena was just stroking his massive ego by saying "Oh yes I put people over" bull because if there is anything that is true about Cena he is an egomaniac and always worries when people start to get over because it will put him on the back burner and god knows WWE can't have Cena behind anyone else. Cena is like Spongebob Squarepants working at the Krusty Krab. A prime example is the Vacation episode where Spongebob was forced to take a vacation but no matter how hard Krabs made it for him to stay away from work he would keep coming back. Even believing that he was getting fired and went crazy and going onto terrorize his own friend to kick him out of working in what he believes is a position that belongs to him and only him.
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repomark
Unicron
For Mash Get Smash
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Post by repomark on Oct 17, 2014 3:46:19 GMT -5
I don't really blame the Cena feud itself, as I don't think he came off as badly in losing a series of three matches 2-1 to the WWE's golden boy. However, the nonsense with Cena coming out and knocking Bray silly with one clothesline the night after Summerslam just to rebuild Cena following his loss to Brock I took more objection to.
I do wonder if Daniel Bryan had not got injured if Bray would have feuded with him over the title this past summer but guess we with never know. It would have made a lot of sense give Bray beat Bryan clean at the Rumble and given their past history. I think that might also be a factor.
I think they are far from broken, and still strongly believe Bray will be one of the top guys going forward.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 17, 2014 4:20:14 GMT -5
because if there is anything that is true about Cena he is an egomaniac and always worries when people start to get over. Based on...
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Ryushinku
King Koopa
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Post by Ryushinku on Oct 17, 2014 4:54:03 GMT -5
I'd be quicker to blame the booking and the ice cold follow-up of the Jericho feud.
Not the evil mastermind of burial that is John Cena, apparently.
Anyway, the Chomp/Freddo stuff is much more important. I'll have to check that my local Co-op is keeping their small chocolate prices down, the Twixes are already out of control as it is.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Oct 17, 2014 7:37:01 GMT -5
because if there is anything that is true about Cena he is an egomaniac and always worries when people start to get over. Based on... Well I mean....he wins a lot of wrestling matches dude. What more do you need?! He obviously brought Ebola to the US in hopes of getting Dean Ambrose infected so he can protect his spot!
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 17, 2014 8:07:25 GMT -5
Well I mean....he wins a lot of wrestling matches dude. What more do you need?! He obviously brought Ebola to the US in hopes of getting Dean Ambrose infected so he can protect his spot! He also kicked Daniel Bryan in the neck while he as sleeping. A lot.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 17, 2014 8:07:47 GMT -5
I'd be quicker to blame the booking and the ice cold follow-up of the Jericho feud. Literally already forgot they feuded.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Oct 17, 2014 9:14:26 GMT -5
I don't really blame the Cena feud itself, as I don't think he came off as badly in losing a series of three matches 2-1 to the WWE's golden boy. However, the nonsense with Cena coming out and knocking Bray silly with one clothesline the night after Summerslam just to rebuild Cena following his loss to Brock I took more objection to. I do wonder if Daniel Bryan had not got injured if Bray would have feuded with him over the title this past summer but guess we with never know. It would have made a lot of sense give Bray beat Bryan clean at the Rumble and given their past history. I think that might also be a factor. I think they are far from broken, and still strongly believe Bray will be one of the top guys going forward. I could've seen that feud being the one before Brock getting the title at SummerSlam.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 14:58:13 GMT -5
So you think if creative came forward with an idea to book him as a cowardly heel who can only win by cheating he would just go along with it? No, he'd change it for his benefit, as would anybody who wants success. It's still not his job to look out for anybody else. Cena's job is to make the company look good so that it can make him look good. The company's main assets are its wrestlers. Furthermore, Rock was willing to take Ls to guys up and down the card, and he's a bigger star than Cena was, is, or ever will be
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Post by No Name is needed Bro Beans on Oct 17, 2014 14:59:46 GMT -5
I don't blame Cena I blame myself
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wcc2
AC Slater
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Post by wcc2 on Oct 18, 2014 9:17:41 GMT -5
I've been a long time lurker here but I've been made to register to just answer some of the astounding anti-WWE lack of understanding around what they do. So many people hear snippets from news sources and craft a completely incorrect picture of the business and how things work when it just isn't the case at all.
This thread for example, and the other one about the Wyatts is just full of inaccuracies. To say Cena is to blame for 'killing their momentum' is just completely missing the point. I read one comment saying the Wyatts were finished on the main roster and that they were surprised they haven't gone down to NXT to be repackaged...what the hell??
It works like this: The WWE push who makes them money, who the fans react to, and who shift merchandise. As much as many people like to make out, they aren't stupid, and they know exactly what they are doing. Bray losing to Cena did not derail his position or momentum at all, it was all part of the plan. It was his job to do that, because of his position on the roster. Ignoring for a second the fact that when he faced Cena he had been on the main roster for less than a year, it needs to be looked at in the following way:
Everybody knows (or should know by now) that WWE has a ladder for their talent. It is a real, literal ladder. Where you are on this ladder dictates how the WWE booking machine makes you look. John Cena is one of the very top guys on the face side. Bray Wyatt is a few rungs down on the heel side. His job was to lose to Cena, and it happened exactly as planned.
The match with Cena wasn't supposed to be the match to build Bray up to Cena's level. But how Bray performs in that feud tells WWE whether he will be ready or not. If he goes against a massive star like Cena and sustains his reactions, sells merchandise, is a believable threat and has the entire arena lighting up their mobile phones when his entrants hits, that tells WWE he is worthy of being elevated. His time will then come a few months down the line because they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that his star power means he is worth investing a significant amount of time and money making potential in. But Bray has to prove himself first, and he did.
Bray was so, so good that he has been taken off TV to have a slight reboot. Before, he needed henchman to help him beat Cena in the cage, because he is a few rungs below Cena and shouldn't be beating him clean. I will bet anything that when he comes back, he will be booked as more of a legit threat that can win matches against main eventers because he proved himself. He won't need henchman to help him because his position on the ladder is higher, and he is supposed to then be beating people of a similar standing to himself.
People always accuse WWE of not striking while the iron is hot, but that isn't the case. If a wrestler gets amazing reactions despite being booked as less of a star than someone else higher, consistently, then that will be noted. The WWE knows that particular wrestler can be 'trusted' with their investment and that reaction is 'banked' for when that star can be built into their plans a few months down the line. But they don't do it immediately because they do have to have plans, if they hot-shotted someone higher because of a few good reactions then that would undo all the other booking that their machine has put in place, which could have ramifications across the entire roster and make other guys who are supposed to be featuring on PPV look worse than they should be looking.
Bray's feud with Cena was his trial to see how well he could hang in the main event against a top star. He passed with flying colours and will return higher up than he was, I guarantee it. Cesaro winning the battle royal was a trial, and he will likely be elevated in a few months too. It's up for debate as to whether or not the plan really was for Bryan to get into the WM main event or not. I can believe it wasn't, but those reactions he was getting would have lead to him having a sustained title run at some point down the line without a doubt, because he will have proved himself and the fans wanted to see him higher than he was. The only reason they hot shotted him was because WM presents a unique situation and they can't have their biggest show ever sign off with legit bad feelings.
People just need to look at the bigger picture rather than reacting instantly and assuming someone is buried, never to return. CM Punk's pipe bomb was his trial to get elevated even higher. He passed with flying colours and earned himself a 400+ day title run because of how much impact he made. That is how it works, but I'm sure in the months leading up to November you couldn't move for people saying he was buried or mis-used. It simply isn't the case. If Mizdow sustains the reactions he is getting beyond a few smarky chants and gets them consistently, he will get his opportunity, because he earned it. Jeff Hardy was red-hot in early 2008 but he had to wait until the end of the year to be booked as an unstoppable force. But that's how it works. He was no worse off for it, and by not hot-shotting him too soon his reactions stayed the same, and the company worked through their existing plans to ensure everyone on the roster looked as they were supposed to, before allowing him to move up. And they knew that he could do it because he was getting consistently massive reactions despite not being booked as one of the very top stars. His Orton feud was the trial and he proved he could hang.
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Post by Hypnosis on Oct 18, 2014 9:42:15 GMT -5
People always accuse WWE of not striking while the iron is hot, but that isn't the case. If a wrestler gets amazing reactions despite being booked as less of a star than someone else higher, consistently, then that will be noted. The WWE knows that particular wrestler can be 'trusted' with their investment and that reaction is 'banked' for when that star can be built into their plans a few months down the line. But they don't do it immediately because they do have to have plans, if they hot-shotted someone higher because of a few good reactions then that would undo all the other booking that their machine has put in place, which could have ramifications across the entire roster and make other guys who are supposed to be featuring on PPV look worse than they should be looking. On Jericho's podcast, Bryan (in part 1 of the interview) said WWE's booking plans only changed in favor of him after Punk quit in January. Originally, according to Meltzer, Bryan was going to face Sheamus again at Wrestlemania 30, while Punk would wrestle HHH.
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wcc2
AC Slater
Posts: 159
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Post by wcc2 on Oct 18, 2014 10:14:31 GMT -5
People always accuse WWE of not striking while the iron is hot, but that isn't the case. If a wrestler gets amazing reactions despite being booked as less of a star than someone else higher, consistently, then that will be noted. The WWE knows that particular wrestler can be 'trusted' with their investment and that reaction is 'banked' for when that star can be built into their plans a few months down the line. But they don't do it immediately because they do have to have plans, if they hot-shotted someone higher because of a few good reactions then that would undo all the other booking that their machine has put in place, which could have ramifications across the entire roster and make other guys who are supposed to be featuring on PPV look worse than they should be looking. On Jericho's podcast, Bryan (in part 1 of the interview) said WWE's booking plans only changed in favor of him after Punk quit in January. Originally, according to Meltzer, Bryan was going to face Sheamus again at Wrestlemania 30, while Punk would wrestle HHH. I'm well aware.
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Post by cabbageboy on Oct 18, 2014 10:26:02 GMT -5
To me, Wyatt wasn't ready for that spot vs. Cena in the first place. He had barely even had singles matches of any kind, and certainly wasn't ready for a semi main event program with Cena. We're supposed to buy a guy with maybe one decent singles match (vs. Bryan) against Cena? Sorry.
But how does Cena account for Rowan and Harper completely jobbing to the Usos in any meaningful match? Let's face it, the Wyatts should have at least won the tag titles in dominant fashion, especially when the Usos jobbed out in the very next feud against Goldust/Stardust. There was no point in the Wyatts jobbing there since it's not like WWE had any serious plans for the Usos anyway.
As far as Bray goes, he's a midcard heel. WWE has always built midcard heels up to job to the main event babyfaces. That's what they do. Coming out of the Cena feud, Wyatt's cred was shaky at best and jobbing in any way, shape, or form to the washed up Jericho was a terrible move. It's almost like they said "Hey, Jericho is buried and has zero heat left, so we need to rebuild him in order to job him out again. Put him over Bray."
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Tony Schiavontay
Dennis Stamp
This is the greatest post in the history of this board!
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Post by Tony Schiavontay on Oct 18, 2014 10:42:23 GMT -5
I've been a long time lurker here but I've been made to register to just answer some of the astounding anti-WWE lack of understanding around what they do. So many people hear snippets from news sources and craft a completely incorrect picture of the business and how things work when it just isn't the case at all. This thread for example, and the other one about the Wyatts is just full of inaccuracies. To say Cena is to blame for 'killing their momentum' is just completely missing the point. I read one comment saying the Wyatts were finished on the main roster and that they were surprised they haven't gone down to NXT to be repackaged...what the hell?? It works like this: The WWE push who makes them money, who the fans react to, and who shift merchandise. As much as many people like to make out, they aren't stupid, and they know exactly what they are doing. Bray losing to Cena did not derail his position or momentum at all, it was all part of the plan. It was his job to do that, because of his position on the roster. Ignoring for a second the fact that when he faced Cena he had been on the main roster for less than a year, it needs to be looked at in the following way: Everybody knows (or should know by now) that WWE has a ladder for their talent. It is a real, literal ladder. Where you are on this ladder dictates how the WWE booking machine makes you look. John Cena is one of the very top guys on the face side. Bray Wyatt is a few rungs down on the heel side. His job was to lose to Cena, and it happened exactly as planned. The match with Cena wasn't supposed to be the match to build Bray up to Cena's level. But how Bray performs in that feud tells WWE whether he will be ready or not. If he goes against a massive star like Cena and sustains his reactions, sells merchandise, is a believable threat and has the entire arena lighting up their mobile phones when his entrants hits, that tells WWE he is worthy of being elevated. His time will then come a few months down the line because they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that his star power means he is worth investing a significant amount of time and money making potential in. But Bray has to prove himself first, and he did. Bray was so, so good that he has been taken off TV to have a slight reboot. Before, he needed henchman to help him beat Cena in the cage, because he is a few rungs below Cena and shouldn't be beating him clean. I will bet anything that when he comes back, he will be booked as more of a legit threat that can win matches against main eventers because he proved himself. He won't need henchman to help him because his position on the ladder is higher, and he is supposed to then be beating people of a similar standing to himself. People always accuse WWE of not striking while the iron is hot, but that isn't the case. If a wrestler gets amazing reactions despite being booked as less of a star than someone else higher, consistently, then that will be noted. The WWE knows that particular wrestler can be 'trusted' with their investment and that reaction is 'banked' for when that star can be built into their plans a few months down the line. But they don't do it immediately because they do have to have plans, if they hot-shotted someone higher because of a few good reactions then that would undo all the other booking that their machine has put in place, which could have ramifications across the entire roster and make other guys who are supposed to be featuring on PPV look worse than they should be looking. Bray's feud with Cena was his trial to see how well he could hang in the main event against a top star. He passed with flying colours and will return higher up than he was, I guarantee it. Cesaro winning the battle royal was a trial, and he will likely be elevated in a few months too. It's up for debate as to whether or not the plan really was for Bryan to get into the WM main event or not. I can believe it wasn't, but those reactions he was getting would have lead to him having a sustained title run at some point down the line without a doubt, because he will have proved himself and the fans wanted to see him higher than he was. The only reason they hot shotted him was because WM presents a unique situation and they can't have their biggest show ever sign off with legit bad feelings. People just need to look at the bigger picture rather than reacting instantly and assuming someone is buried, never to return. CM Punk's pipe bomb was his trial to get elevated even higher. He passed with flying colours and earned himself a 400+ day title run because of how much impact he made. That is how it works, but I'm sure in the months leading up to November you couldn't move for people saying he was buried or mis-used. It simply isn't the case. If Mizdow sustains the reactions he is getting beyond a few smarky chants and gets them consistently, he will get his opportunity, because he earned it. Jeff Hardy was red-hot in early 2008 but he had to wait until the end of the year to be booked as an unstoppable force. But that's how it works. He was no worse off for it, and by not hot-shotting him too soon his reactions stayed the same, and the company worked through their existing plans to ensure everyone on the roster looked as they were supposed to, before allowing him to move up. And they knew that he could do it because he was getting consistently massive reactions despite not being booked as one of the very top stars. His Orton feud was the trial and he proved he could hang. How's it going Vince?
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H-Virus
Hank Scorpio
A Real Contagious Experience
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Post by H-Virus on Oct 18, 2014 11:41:05 GMT -5
Everybody knows (or should know by now) that WWE has a ladder for their talent. It is a real, literal ladder. I don't think you know what the word 'literal' means. Although that does make for an amusing visual image.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2014 12:41:27 GMT -5
People always accuse WWE of not striking while the iron is hot, but that isn't the case...that reaction is 'banked' for when that star can be built into their plans a few months down the line. I appreciate the effort of a well written post but most of your paragraphs started with one point which could have been developed before going against the initial point mid-way through. Crowd reactions don't work like that for 95% of wrestlers. The 5% who manage it do so in spite of crap structuring of their booking plans. The weekly shows are re-written before every show, the only long term plans put in place are for existing main-event draws -and some are more "hope they can draw" than "proven to draw"-, Brock, Rock, Cena, Triple H etc. If you're not of that tier, whether you're Randy Orton, Kane, Bray, The Usos, Kofi Kingston, or The Miz, you can be anywhere on the card one week to down at the bottom the next. It's not a good formula as the lack of internal logic/consistency within the WWE is something out of a fifth grade writing class.
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wcc2
AC Slater
Posts: 159
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Post by wcc2 on Oct 18, 2014 16:06:15 GMT -5
Everybody knows (or should know by now) that WWE has a ladder for their talent. It is a real, literal ladder. I don't think you know what the word 'literal' means. Although that does make for an amusing visual image. It depends on how you define what the word 'ladder' means. If you think the only ladder is the metal implement that allows you to climb, fine. But women can also get ladders in their tights.
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wcc2
AC Slater
Posts: 159
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Post by wcc2 on Oct 18, 2014 16:13:00 GMT -5
People always accuse WWE of not striking while the iron is hot, but that isn't the case...that reaction is 'banked' for when that star can be built into their plans a few months down the line. I appreciate the effort of a well written post but most of your paragraphs started with one point which could have been developed before going against the initial point mid-way through. Crowd reactions don't work like that for 95% of wrestlers. The 5% who manage it do so in spite of crap structuring of their booking plans. The weekly shows are re-written before every show, the only long term plans put in place are for existing main-event draws -and some are more "hope they can draw" than "proven to draw"-, Brock, Rock, Cena, Triple H etc. If you're not of that tier, whether you're Randy Orton, Kane, Bray, The Usos, Kofi Kingston, or The Miz, you can be anywhere on the card one week to down at the bottom the next. It's not a good formula as the lack of internal logic/consistency within the WWE is something out of a fifth grade writing class. I don't think I have gone against my points made a the beginning of the paragraphs. On the point you raised, there's a difference between the booking machine, and the writing of the show to make the story. The machine exists to present every star at the level they should be. So mid carders look like mid carders and main eventers look like main eventers. Whether or not the show is being rewritten 5 mins before going live doesn't change the fact that Cesaro, for example, will be 5-7 rungs below Cena on the ladder and will be presented as such. If the Miz gets consistently great reactions, he will be elevated. Same for Kofi. But they have to prove themselves. Your point about crap booking is in actuality a mid carder being presented as a mid carder. If the fans simply refuse to allow a certain guy to continue to be treated as a mid carder, then they will be elevated eventually. It's easy enough for WWE to book someone as a main eventer and have them get decent reactions, but for them to know someone is worth investing in they need to see that the fans have invested in them first.
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Fauxnaki
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Post by Fauxnaki on Oct 19, 2014 9:00:34 GMT -5
i liked the idea of bray using the kids against john cena but then they gave the kid a stupid altered voice and then it just seemed dropped altogther then cena wins.
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