Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Jan 1, 2015 8:30:59 GMT -5
You know what would be awesome? If the commentary team didn't act like a bunch of bizarre f***ing Smarks waiting on dudes to f*** up so they can pounce on it and bury them. This is why I think the commentary team should be wrestlers. Sometimes, yes, it is Vince yelling in the ear but I doubt that's always the case. The RAW team are just too pleased with themselves and the higher-ups don't care enough to call them out when they go after women or mid-carders. I feel like if they put Miz back on there or someone active, he'd be less likely to do it.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Jan 1, 2015 8:40:35 GMT -5
You know what would be awesome? If the commentary team didn't act like a bunch of bizarre f***ing Smarks waiting on dudes to f*** up so they can pounce on it and bury them. This is why I think the commentary team should be wrestlers. Sometimes, yes, it is Vince yelling in the ear but I doubt that's always the case. The RAW team are just too pleased with themselves and the higher-ups don't care enough to call them out when they go after women or mid-carders. I feel like if they put Miz back on there or someone active, he'd be less likely to do it. This was proven this week when Big Show proved to be both more entertaining and more into putting over the wrestlers than the other 3 combined. Even his grudging praise of Roman Reigns, the wrestler he's currently feuding with, was more than most mid-carders get from the regular team.
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Jan 1, 2015 8:47:48 GMT -5
This is why I think the commentary team should be wrestlers. Sometimes, yes, it is Vince yelling in the ear but I doubt that's always the case. The RAW team are just too pleased with themselves and the higher-ups don't care enough to call them out when they go after women or mid-carders. I feel like if they put Miz back on there or someone active, he'd be less likely to do it. This was proven this week when Big Show proved to be both more entertaining and more into putting over the wrestlers than the other 3 combined. Even his grudging praise of Roman Reigns, the wrestler he's currently feuding with, was more than most mid-carders get from the regular team. That's a very good point. The wrestlers aren't going to confront Cole and they wouldn't dare with JBL or King so we're in a weird place right now where three loathsome guys have more power than the performers who carry the product. I am not saying the wrestlers wouldn't heel it up or make jokes but there's something very smug and self-satisfied when the RAW team does it. Oddly, when AJ called them out on it they're a lot more friendly to her. Maybe Cesaro needs to punch JBL just once.
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Post by MrElijah on Jan 1, 2015 11:33:39 GMT -5
You know what would be awesome? If the commentary team didn't act like a bunch of bizarre f***ing Smarks waiting on dudes to f*** up so they can pounce on it and bury them. I never understood this stupid ass logic. Hell when there were multiple teams, they buried each other(ie. Cole & King, Striker & Grisham). You NEVER bury your product. Heenan used to rail on Tito Santana but not once did he bury him. When there was a mistake JR or Monsoon would cover it up or draw AWAY from it. Now it's "look at these goofs!" Or like when King called the Tag Champs "boring" Hell David Crockett, at his highpoint of face blowing, wasn't that bad.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 1, 2015 11:42:05 GMT -5
I guarantee that the moment WWE does fire him, the same folks calling for this will cry bloody murder. I dubbed him "White Shelton Benjamin" for a reason. He is tremendously talented in the ring but is lacking the IT factor needed to reach the next level. Not to say he can't get it and unlock his potential but right now, it's not there. And before anyone says Roman Reigns, there is no guarantee he works out as a certified main eventer. This time next year, we might have tons of threads calling for Roman to get pushed.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 1, 2015 13:23:40 GMT -5
You know what would be awesome? If the commentary team didn't act like a bunch of bizarre f***ing Smarks waiting on dudes to f*** up so they can pounce on it and bury them. This is why I think the commentary team should be wrestlers. Sometimes, yes, it is Vince yelling in the ear but I doubt that's always the case. The RAW team are just too pleased with themselves and the higher-ups don't care enough to call them out when they go after women or mid-carders. I feel like if they put Miz back on there or someone active, he'd be less likely to do it. If they put an active wrestler on commentary, management gets too used to them on commentary that their ring time is reduced (the later part of Miz's face run) or they stop booking them in matches altogether (Alex Riley).
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Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
Posts: 6,420
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Post by Abdullah on Jan 1, 2015 13:40:28 GMT -5
This is why I think the commentary team should be wrestlers. Sometimes, yes, it is Vince yelling in the ear but I doubt that's always the case. The RAW team are just too pleased with themselves and the higher-ups don't care enough to call them out when they go after women or mid-carders. I feel like if they put Miz back on there or someone active, he'd be less likely to do it. If they put an active wrestler on commentary, management gets too used to them on commentary that their ring time is reduced (the later part of Miz's face run) or they stop booking them in matches altogether (Alex Riley). Eh. I don't care. That's a small price to pay for cutting back on JBL or King. This is all hypothetical so I'd much much Primo commentate than wrestle as a matador. I'd like it if they found Maddox. I'd even rather hear Cody than watch him as Stardust. He was really good the one week he tried it. Hell, everyone wants Show or Kane to bugger off - use one of them since they have more credibility than the younger generation.
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Post by aliciafoxfan on Jan 1, 2015 13:44:22 GMT -5
I wish Vince would realize him having the commentators bury the wrestlers is detrimental to the product and helps no one.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 1, 2015 13:47:30 GMT -5
I guarantee that the moment WWE does fire him, the same folks calling for this will cry bloody murder. I dubbed him "White Shelton Benjamin" for a reason. He is tremendously talented in the ring but is lacking the IT factor needed to reach the next level. Not to say he can't get it and unlock his potential but right now, it's not there. And before anyone says Roman Reigns, there is no guarantee he works out as a certified main eventer. This time next year, we might have tons of threads calling for Roman to get pushed. Of course they would, because WWE wouldn't have properly utilized his talents when they had him. And you make the Shelton comparisons, but the difference is that WWE actually tried with Shelton. They gave him different gimmicks to try to get over. They gave him multiple singles title runs. They had him going over HHH of all people during the time that Hunner was at his peak of being a selfish prick.
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Boo!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,417
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Post by Boo! on Jan 1, 2015 13:50:19 GMT -5
The swing thing was a cool move, it really didnt need a gimmick built around it.
"King of swing" ?. Sod off. Should have been something he did to get himself over not a way to define his character.
Kayfabe terms, Swiss is a crappy nationality to have. Canadian, Russian(Soviet), German, French, British, Japanese are the gold standard foreign nationalities to have. One reason why Borga didn't work. Who the hell dislikes Finland?
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 1, 2015 13:54:48 GMT -5
I guarantee that the moment WWE does fire him, the same folks calling for this will cry bloody murder. I dubbed him "White Shelton Benjamin" for a reason. He is tremendously talented in the ring but is lacking the IT factor needed to reach the next level. Not to say he can't get it and unlock his potential but right now, it's not there. And before anyone says Roman Reigns, there is no guarantee he works out as a certified main eventer. This time next year, we might have tons of threads calling for Roman to get pushed. Of course they would, because WWE wouldn't have properly utilized his talents when they had him. And you make the Shelton comparisons, but the difference is that WWE actually tried with Shelton. They gave him different gimmicks to try to get over. They gave him multiple singles title runs. They had him going over HHH of all people during the time that Hunner was at his peak of being a selfish prick. They tried the same with Cesaro. US title reigns. The first ever Andre the Giant Battle Royal winner. Big swinging and hitting the Neutralizer on everyone. Managed by Paul Heyman and Zeb Colter. Only person the current roster with more reboots is Wade Barrett. Folks think if he get fired that he magically getting a job with New Japan and becoming a megastar. Not everyone get a NJPW gig.
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wcc2
AC Slater
Posts: 159
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 1, 2015 15:29:51 GMT -5
there are several serious issues with how wcc2 is approaching this argument First, he is continuing to ignore the fact that Cesaro has and did connect with the audience. Second, he keeps denying that the booking sabotaged him when it absolutely did. That's simply a fact. It's like denying that the creative team ruined Ryder or Ryback. He is acting like creative mishandling can't destroy someone's momentum or credibility when the WWE has done it over and over again. Third, he keeps harping on the "main event star" thing. Maybe Cesaro isn't main event caliber. But there's a huge gap between main event and where he is now. He absolutely should be a good midcard star. He WAS a good midcard star, until the WWE screwed him over with bad booking. Nope, haven't ignored the fact he did well with the audience earlier this year at all. He connected to an extent as a wrestler. They gave him a shot to have more exposure. They gave him a Wrestlemania moment. They wanted to see more and he didn't deliver. Booking hasn't sabotaged them. They've knocked him down a few rungs on the roster because there are others doing better and more deserving of being higher than he is. Ryback was doing well, and getting good reactions, but there were safety concerns and they also wanted him to be able to demonstrate more of a personality as opposed to being a one-dimensional destroyer. His team with Axel allowed him to do that, and they've shot him right back up now he's made improvements in all areas. Ryder did well as a goof, but he never developed a serious side to his character. He's acknowledged that he has been told this is what he needed to do. He created a gimmick that had a little mileage but that screamed mid-card. Cesaro is not deserving of being higher up than anyone that is currently above him on the heel side at the moment. Of the guys operating as singles competitors, Luke Harper is doing better. Bray Wyatt is doing better. Rusev is doing better. There's Henry, Big Show and Kane, that have shown enough sides to their personalities over the year to be big stars that will always connect. If he can develop more sides to him, that Harper, Henry, Kane type level will be his next step.
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wcc2
AC Slater
Posts: 159
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 1, 2015 15:39:02 GMT -5
There's a reason they have a 'way they want it.' It's not bloody minded stubbornness, it's because they know what works, because they have to cater to a mass audience, not just a wrestling audience. Benoit had his moment and then the next year was back competing for the US title. He connected by virtue of having a 20 plus year career but again, if he was a big star waiting to break out and carry the business, he wouldn't be competing for mid-card titles so soon again. His was a thank you run because there were bigger characters around that can carry a show. Ambrose will be absolutely fine. He's main evented PPVs since leaving the Shield and is only 2 years into his time on the roster. He's got plenty of time to be showcased as one of the guys carrying the company, and Vince also recognises what a talent he has. Whether or not he's been booked as a top, top guy these last couple of months doesn't really matter in the context of what his entire career will be here. But he's the total package. He can work the mic, he can work a match, he has an obvious character, the fans are behind him, he can play both face and heel, and he can do comedy and silly kids slapstick stuff as well. That's the reason he will be a big star in the WWE. I can guarantee it. This obsession with shooting their load on every young guy with potential as soon as possible is concerning to me. They have years and years left on the roster, and they have loads of talent they need to showcase. Just because Ambrose isn't carrying the company right now, it doesn't mean he will never get the opportunity to do so. Except they've been killing their mass audience: the crowd is usually dead an hour or two into each and every show they've been doing for the past few weeks if not longer; their ratings are hitting lower lows than they ever have; nobody is over except for guys who they want push out of stubbornness, guys who they have no choice but to push, and established names from the past; the heir apparent, Roman Reigns has been so badly botched because they don't know how to hide his weaknesses and highlight his strengths that are pretty much dooming him before he gets out of the gate. Crowds were deader a few years ago than they are now. I can't think of a top star on the roster than isn't getting good reactions. The ones that need a connection and some more reaction are the likes of Fandango. Roman Reigns is doing absolutely fine, what you're saying there is based upon rumours and nothing that has actually happened yet on our screens. Roman Reigns is a guy with presence, that has a power move set and doesn't need to say too much. They present him as a guy with a power move set, saying a few words and giving a glare. That's exactly what he should be. He's doing fine. Cena is getting older by the year, and eventually even he's gonna start having diminishing returns. So are alot of their roster right now, but all the guys in NXT, while they've worked down there, none of them have really connected except maybe Bray, whose quickly jumping the proverbial shark, and Rusev. And in the latter case the only reason he's doing as well as he likely is would be because they never beat the guy. No shit a guy who never loses is gonna be over! Wonder why they haven't tried that for a few other guys they'd like to try and make into stars instead of beating them like a drum or making them look like idiots? Rusev is doing phenominally well and deserves what he is getting. Stick Bull Dempsey or Tye Dillinger on the main roster as they are now and have them go undefeated for a year and see how they do. It will be nothing like how well Rusev connects. Seth Rollins is doing well. Reigns is doing well. Ambrose is doing well. Bo Dallas is doing well. Big E is doing reasonably well. Rose hasn't worked as a face but give time he could work as a heel, no shame in that. Paige has done great. What's the big issue here?And their solution to all this... their big solution to that is trotting out the tired, hackneyed heel authority yet again. A trope that has long worn out its welcome to the point that nobody cares one damn iota about them. WWE has single-handedly water that down to the point where it may never mean anything again. Not like it really should in the first place because it's such a lazy concept having the big bad boss being the main heel of the promotion. Nothing to do with the current debate, but to indulge you anyway, it absolutely does mean something. It's hugely helped Rollins. It hugely helped Bryan. It gives new life to the characters of HHH and Steph, and will likely also be good for Ziggler. Rollins character progression can be directly attributed to siding with the heel authority figures, and they were the absolutely perfect foil to Daniel Bryan's character earlier in the year. I do give them credit because they are getting a few things right, but honestly right now WWE has been so toxic creatively. I'd argue it's actually worse in some ways then WCW 2000. At least there you could laugh at how bad some of this stuff was! Today's product just makes me want to turn it off and never look back. And I hate that because I love professional wrestling. I like alot of guys on the roster nowadays. NXT is awesome! But aside from that... WWE is just no good right now. WWE 2014 is light years ahead of WCW 2000.And it's not just the "hardcores" that think so.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Jan 1, 2015 15:40:53 GMT -5
Of course they would, because WWE wouldn't have properly utilized his talents when they had him. And you make the Shelton comparisons, but the difference is that WWE actually tried with Shelton. They gave him different gimmicks to try to get over. They gave him multiple singles title runs. They had him going over HHH of all people during the time that Hunner was at his peak of being a selfish prick. They tried the same with Cesaro. US title reigns. The first ever Andre the Giant Battle Royal winner. Big swinging and hitting the Neutralizer on everyone. Managed by Paul Heyman and Zeb Colter. Only person the current roster with more reboots is Wade Barrett. Folks think if he get fired that he magically getting a job with New Japan and becoming a megastar. Not everyone get a NJPW gig.If Doc Gallows can do it, it can't be that hard.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 1, 2015 15:46:51 GMT -5
They tried the same with Cesaro. US title reigns. The first ever Andre the Giant Battle Royal winner. Big swinging and hitting the Neutralizer on everyone. Managed by Paul Heyman and Zeb Colter. Only person the current roster with more reboots is Wade Barrett. Folks think if he get fired that he magically getting a job with New Japan and becoming a megastar. Not everyone get a NJPW gig.If Doc Gallows can do it, it can't be that hard. Doc isn't a megastar in New Japan and filled a quota. Since NJPW wants to make Karl Anderson perma tag team champions and pair him with a big man gaijin, Gallows got the role. If Mike Knox was available, he would got the gig.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Jan 1, 2015 15:55:47 GMT -5
If Doc Gallows can do it, it can't be that hard. Doc isn't a megastar in New Japan and filled a quota. Since NJPW wants to make Karl Anderson perma tag team champions and pair him with a big man gaijin, Gallows got the role. If Mike Knox was available, he would got the gig. I meant really just getting a contract with New Japan. In terms of in-ring ability and mic skills, Cesaro's on the same level as AJ Styles so I imagine he'd either be the leader of Suzuki-gun and/or fighting for the Heavyweight title as soon as he went there. Also, I'd love to see Mike Knox in NJPW!
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 1, 2015 16:00:34 GMT -5
Doc isn't a megastar in New Japan and filled a quota. Since NJPW wants to make Karl Anderson perma tag team champions and pair him with a big man gaijin, Gallows got the role. If Mike Knox was available, he would got the gig. I meant really just getting a contract with New Japan. In terms of in-ring ability and mic skills, Cesaro's on the same level as AJ Styles so I imagine he'd either be the leader of Suzuki-gun and/or fighting for the Heavyweight title as soon as he went there. Also, I'd love to see Mike Knox in NJPW! But do they have a spot for him though? Just because Jado and Gado are huge WWE fans doesn't means there's a roster spot open. AJ had the momentum from his TNA run to help him out. And even then, it was Prince Devitt leaving for WWE that gave him that spot.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Jan 1, 2015 16:07:43 GMT -5
I meant really just getting a contract with New Japan. In terms of in-ring ability and mic skills, Cesaro's on the same level as AJ Styles so I imagine he'd either be the leader of Suzuki-gun and/or fighting for the Heavyweight title as soon as he went there. Also, I'd love to see Mike Knox in NJPW! But do they have a spot for him though? Just because Jado and Gado are huge WWE fans doesn't means there's a roster spot open. AJ had the momentum from his TNA run to help him out. And even then, it was Prince Devitt leaving for WWE that gave him that spot. NJPW's been pretty aggressive with expanding in the west with PPVs and the new tv show, having a reconizable star like Cesaro could help out with that. If the roster's filled, they would probably just can a guy to try to make room for him.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 1, 2015 16:10:07 GMT -5
I meant really just getting a contract with New Japan. In terms of in-ring ability and mic skills, Cesaro's on the same level as AJ Styles so I imagine he'd either be the leader of Suzuki-gun and/or fighting for the Heavyweight title as soon as he went there. Also, I'd love to see Mike Knox in NJPW! But do they have a spot for him though? Just because Jado and Gado are huge WWE fans doesn't means there's a roster spot open. AJ had the momentum from his TNA run to help him out. And even then, it was Prince Devitt leaving for WWE that gave him that spot. Well if AJ keeps "breaking necks and cashing checks", eventually he may get the boot, and that would open up a spot for Cesaro. And even if there isn't room in New Japan, surely he could get work in RoH, Lucha Underground, or even TNA could pony up some cash for a contract if they <insert "clever" joke about a bake sale or charity carwash here>.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 1, 2015 16:23:22 GMT -5
But do they have a spot for him though? Just because Jado and Gado are huge WWE fans doesn't means there's a roster spot open. AJ had the momentum from his TNA run to help him out. And even then, it was Prince Devitt leaving for WWE that gave him that spot. NJPW's been pretty aggressive with expanding in the west with PPVs and the new tv show, having a reconizable star like Cesaro could help out with that. If the roster's filled, they would probably just can a guy to try to make room for him. Good luck on that. They fired Honma a while back and it went over like a lead balloon with fans. He got brought back and still is jobbing to the stars like before. And there are more puroresu companies than New Japan so why limit yourself just to one promotion. Going to NJPW would be basically a lateral because he would be at most in the Intercontinental picture which is where is filters in and out in WWE.
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