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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 1, 2015 16:23:33 GMT -5
Nope, haven't ignored the fact he did well with the audience earlier this year at all. He connected to an extent as a wrestler. They gave him a shot to have more exposure. They gave him a Wrestlemania moment. They wanted to see more and he didn't deliver. Booking hasn't sabotaged them. They've knocked him down a few rungs on the roster because there are others doing better and more deserving of being higher than he is. Ryback was doing well, and getting good reactions, but there were safety concerns and they also wanted him to be able to demonstrate more of a personality as opposed to being a one-dimensional destroyer. His team with Axel allowed him to do that, and they've shot him right back up now he's made improvements in all areas. Ryder did well as a goof, but he never developed a serious side to his character. He's acknowledged that he has been told this is what he needed to do. He created a gimmick that had a little mileage but that screamed mid-card. Cesaro is not deserving of being higher up than anyone that is currently above him on the heel side at the moment. Of the guys operating as singles competitors, Luke Harper is doing better. Bray Wyatt is doing better. Rusev is doing better. There's Henry, Big Show and Kane, that have shown enough sides to their personalities over the year to be big stars that will always connect. If he can develop more sides to him, that Harper, Henry, Kane type level will be his next step. To you, a guy has the ability to succeed if he succeeds. He lacks the ability to succeed if he flounders. This is circular and non-falsifiable. It's a bad argument. You're never successfully distracting attention away from the fact that you think Vince McMahon has some kind of superpower at seeing people's "abilities," and he's set up a perfect meritocracy where the good thrive... and your evidence for it is that in the WWE in the past, some people have succeeded (which means they possessed the ability to do so) while other people have not done well (which means they didn't). That's so silly, and so bizarrely defensive of the status quo, I don't even know what to say about it. The other problem is, and I said this before, "ability to connect to an audience" ISN'T A THING. It by definition depends on the audience, first of all, and audiences are legion and everchanging. And, it depends on what you're doing. Even without your arbitrary limits on what "counts" as an ability to connect to the audience and what doesn't, different people will succeed in different situations. There isn't one thing. and FINALLY, I honestly can't get over your insistence that wrestlers need to be multifacted to succeed... while one of your pieces of evidence for that is the deep and rich characterization provided by freakin' RUSEV. Not only did megastars like Hulk Hogan and The Rock have the stupidest and simplest characters for their entire top run, but dude: if the bookers went with what worked, then the performers wouldn't all HAVE to be multifacted. You're actually, seriously defending bad booking because it handicaps the performers. The meritocracy fantasy is more important than putting on a good show.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 16:25:26 GMT -5
Just watched the promo. Had I not read this thread, I wouldn't have blinked at the botch. Mountain, molehill, etc. I love the guy to death, but I laughed, hard, when he said 4 ropes. You may not have noticed, others may not have noticed, but plenty of people did, and if they didn't the jackass announcers were going to shine a light on it and mock Cesaro for it anyway. It shouldn't kill his push, because that's just dumb, but it's certainly going to be something for him to live down.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 1, 2015 16:30:33 GMT -5
But do they have a spot for him though? Just because Jado and Gado are huge WWE fans doesn't means there's a roster spot open. AJ had the momentum from his TNA run to help him out. And even then, it was Prince Devitt leaving for WWE that gave him that spot. Well if AJ keeps "breaking necks and cashing checks", eventually he may get the boot, and that would open up a spot for Cesaro. And even if there isn't room in New Japan, surely he could get work in RoH, Lucha Underground, or even TNA could pony up some cash for a contract if they <insert "clever" joke about a bake sale or charity carwash here>. ROH got limited slots for people to come in. Same for Lucha Underground who looking for wrestlers to fill a character role not take the role and make it your own. And TNA has got a 35% success rate in handling former WWE talent. EC3 made it work while the former Brodus Clay is losing to Eric Young in 3 minutes and made a background character.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 17:22:10 GMT -5
I love the guy to death, but I laughed, hard, when he said 4 ropes. You may not have noticed, others may not have noticed, but plenty of people did, and if they didn't the jackass announcers were going to shine a light on it and mock Cesaro for it anyway. It shouldn't kill his push, because that's just dumb, but it's certainly going to be something for him to live down. See, that's a second debate. It was anything but a major botch. I've seen worse from better performers. But, the WWE will probably punish him for it. Well, it was a small mistake, but a very quotable, hilarious small mistake. Mistakes of that nature can come to define a person in the public eye, especially in our current culture where people absolutely live to rip on shit. It wasn't a major botch, BUT it could have major implications, especially if the announce team won't let it go and every time Cesaro wrestles we have to hear about how he can't even count. And that is not at all unlikely.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 1, 2015 17:31:43 GMT -5
See, that's a second debate. It was anything but a major botch. I've seen worse from better performers. But, the WWE will probably punish him for it. Well, it was a small mistake, but a very quotable, hilarious small mistake. Mistakes of that nature can come to define a person in the public eye, especially in our current culture where people absolutely live to rip on shit. It wasn't a major botch, BUT it could have major implications, especially if the announce team won't let it go and every time Cesaro wrestles we have to hear about how he can't even count. And that is not at all unlikely. Wouldn't such a flub make him more over in a "HE'S FAT" kind of way?
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Post by benstudd on Jan 1, 2015 17:32:05 GMT -5
He's a typical example of 'gimmick more over than the wrestler', it was the Real American's package that helped him, the theme music, the crowd participation, Zeb...a heel in a heel faction that people liked. Outside of that nobody's cared. They did try to an extent, they put him with Heyman but almost immediately the interest deflated. The Real Americans got more over because of him, though. He outshined and outgrew it and at the end he was getting huge pops and they were heels. Which heels ever gets cheered in the WWE anymore? The fans are so much sheeps that it never happens. Yet it happened with Cesaro. Even JBL and King were praising him. Cesaro by the end of his run with the Real Americans was getting near a Goldberg type of run about a new wrestler that impresses people so much with his feats of strength that it was a following that grew and grew and after turning on the Real Americans and winning the Andre Battle Royale the sky was the limit with him. And then they screwed everything up. I can just imagine if Cesaro would have been in WCW, they would have taken the leash off and he would have been a top guy right on the spot. Plus Cesaro contrary to Goldberg can give you long matches and doesn't have to be protected. The promo stuff is just garbage to me. Goldberg did not talk, Lesnar either. In my opinion Vince just doesn't like this these type of big strong silent types that shows up in the ring and dominates. Last year you had Big E who had a pretty solid run with a belt, he had solid matches all the time and he grew into his character. But Vince got tired of him and he was back to jobbing. That is why they didn't know how to use Goldberg like Vince liked. Cause the character of Goldberg just clashed with what Vince liked. You can say it's different for Batista and Reigns but it's because they have sex appeal so Vince can pass over the fact that they cannot talk.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 17:59:45 GMT -5
He's a typical example of 'gimmick more over than the wrestler', it was the Real American's package that helped him, the theme music, the crowd participation, Zeb...a heel in a heel faction that people liked. Outside of that nobody's cared. They did try to an extent, they put him with Heyman but almost immediately the interest deflated. The Real Americans got more over because of him, though. He outshined and outgrew it and at the end he was getting huge pops and they were heels. Which heels ever gets cheered in the WWE anymore? Practically all of them? Rusev and Fandango are the only ones I can think of who never get any cheers and Fandango's because nobody boos him either. Even Curtis Axel got a chant for him on one of the PPV preshows.
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Post by benstudd on Jan 1, 2015 18:06:27 GMT -5
I guarantee that the moment WWE does fire him, the same folks calling for this will cry bloody murder. I dubbed him "White Shelton Benjamin" for a reason. He is tremendously talented in the ring but is lacking the IT factor needed to reach the next level. Not to say he can't get it and unlock his potential but right now, it's not there. And before anyone says Roman Reigns, there is no guarantee he works out as a certified main eventer. This time next year, we might have tons of threads calling for Roman to get pushed. Cesaro doesn't lack the IT factor at all, he is phenomenal and was connecting with the crowd big time. Until they paired him with Heyman and proceeded to do next to nothing all throughout the summer for no reasons whatsoever. It's not like he fumbled the ball, there wasn't any storylines or any matches that we could see have seen during that summer that said "hey it doesn't work". It never happened. It just that they chose to stop using him or pushing him.
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Post by benstudd on Jan 1, 2015 18:08:33 GMT -5
The Real Americans got more over because of him, though. He outshined and outgrew it and at the end he was getting huge pops and they were heels. Which heels ever gets cheered in the WWE anymore? Practically all of them? Rusev and Fandango are the only ones I can think of who never get any cheers and Fandango's because nobody boos him either. Even Curtis Axel got a chant for him on one of the PPV preshows. Well we're not watching the same shows.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Jan 1, 2015 18:10:09 GMT -5
Yes they can... But they shouldn't.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 1, 2015 18:25:33 GMT -5
I guarantee that the moment WWE does fire him, the same folks calling for this will cry bloody murder. I dubbed him "White Shelton Benjamin" for a reason. He is tremendously talented in the ring but is lacking the IT factor needed to reach the next level. Not to say he can't get it and unlock his potential but right now, it's not there. And before anyone says Roman Reigns, there is no guarantee he works out as a certified main eventer. This time next year, we might have tons of threads calling for Roman to get pushed. Cesaro doesn't lack the IT factor at all, he is phenomenal and was connecting with the crowd big time. Until they paired him with Heyman and proceeded to do next to nothing all throughout the summer for no reasons whatsoever. It's not like he fumbled the ball, there wasn't any storylines or any matches that we could see have seen during that summer that said "hey it doesn't work". It never happened. It just that they chose to stop using him or pushing him. He became the Guy does the Big Swing for a while. Once the crowd only pops only for a move, it stymies you. Look what the Canadian Destroyer did to Petey Williams. I like Cesaro more than most but I recognize his limitations. When asked to commentate during a match or cut promos, he is not comfortable doing so. Which makes management lose confidence in him and sends him back down the card. He was connecting as a Real American so WWE made him a Heyman Guy which is a kiss of death for anyone not Brock or CM Punk. His script material may not be good but lesser folks done more with worst. Cesaro got folks rooting for him but his live mic skills are going to hold him back. Just like it did to Dolph who last year managed to get over that hump.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 18:40:21 GMT -5
They definitely shouldn't fire him. All they need to do is let him actually do stuff and not be treated as a joke. People will be behind him, that's not the problem. The problem is that they keep booking him like a joke and cut his legs out from under him which doesn't do anyone any favors at all.
but, that's not just a problem with Cesaro, that's a problem that encompasses the entire roster.
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Post by benstudd on Jan 1, 2015 19:01:12 GMT -5
Cesaro doesn't lack the IT factor at all, he is phenomenal and was connecting with the crowd big time. Until they paired him with Heyman and proceeded to do next to nothing all throughout the summer for no reasons whatsoever. It's not like he fumbled the ball, there wasn't any storylines or any matches that we could see have seen during that summer that said "hey it doesn't work". It never happened. It just that they chose to stop using him or pushing him. He became the Guy does the Big Swing for a while. Once the crowd only pops only for a move, it stymies you. Look what the Canadian Destroyer did to Petey Williams. I like Cesaro more than most but I recognize his limitations. When asked to commentate during a match or cut promos, he is not comfortable doing so. Which makes management lose confidence in him and sends him back down the card. He was connecting as a Real American so WWE made him a Heyman Guy which is a kiss of death for anyone not Brock or CM Punk. His script material may not be good but lesser folks done more with worst. Cesaro got folks rooting for him but his live mic skills are going to hold him back. Just like it did to Dolph who last year managed to get over that hump. You said it yourself, pairing him with Heyman was the kiss of death. Especially considering people hated Heyman's guts after he kept repeating his client beat the Streak. Yet these same people wanted to embrace Cesaro as the new hot face but couldn't because of it. It was a strange vibe and the fans didn't know how to react. So even the swing came off as forced. Also I've never seen him fumble the ball after Mania. They wanted him as a heel and he did a good job there. It just wasn't the place he should have been. And again the promos should not factor in, plenty of guys cannot talk, give him a guy that does them or just have him show up in the ring and dominates like he does best. It worked for Goldberg. The fact that someone cannot talk has nothing to do with the guy lacking the IT factor or not desiring to be a star. Every wrestlers have their strengths and weaknesses. Just hide the problems.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 1, 2015 19:22:03 GMT -5
He became the Guy does the Big Swing for a while. Once the crowd only pops only for a move, it stymies you. Look what the Canadian Destroyer did to Petey Williams. I like Cesaro more than most but I recognize his limitations. When asked to commentate during a match or cut promos, he is not comfortable doing so. Which makes management lose confidence in him and sends him back down the card. He was connecting as a Real American so WWE made him a Heyman Guy which is a kiss of death for anyone not Brock or CM Punk. His script material may not be good but lesser folks done more with worst. Cesaro got folks rooting for him but his live mic skills are going to hold him back. Just like it did to Dolph who last year managed to get over that hump. You said it yourself, pairing him with Heyman was the kiss of death. Especially considering people hated Heyman's guts after he kept repeating his client beat the Streak. Yet these same people wanted to embrace Cesaro as the new hot face but couldn't because of it. It was a strange vibe and the fans didn't know how to react. So even the swing came off as forced. Also I've never seen him fumble the ball after Mania. They wanted him as a heel and he did a good job there. It just wasn't the place he should have been. And again the promos should not factor in, plenty of guys cannot talk, give him a guy that does them or just have him show up in the ring and dominates like he does best. It worked for Goldberg. The fact that someone cannot talk has nothing to do with the guy lacking the IT factor or not desiring to be a star. Every wrestlers have their strengths and weaknesses. Just hide the problems. At some point, he's going to need to talk to sell an angle, a match, or himself. You can hide it for so long before people start asking why they aren't talking. Ryback on Monday got promo time to introduce himself as more than a catchphrase spewing meathead. It wasn't perfect it it was effective enough to earn more fan support. Cesaro got a semi shoot promo to do and he stumbled a bit. Which hurts you if you got detractors like your boss. I watched Shelton viciously butchered a promo with Eric Bischoff and it spelled doom for his main event hopes. Genesis of McGullicutty ruined Curtis Axel's FCW golden boy status. Cesaro is currently in the Jerry Lynn: Starmaker role. He broke off from the Real Americans too soon without fleshing himself enough to work in a babyface role. With Heyman, he was just a body so Heyman had a reason to be on tv. Sure Heyman hyped him up, but Cesaro barely said a word. The mystique of Goldberg took a hit when he finally had to say more than "Who's next?". Goldberg wasn't terrible but I can't remember a memorable Goldberg promo.
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wcc2
AC Slater
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 1, 2015 19:35:03 GMT -5
Nope, haven't ignored the fact he did well with the audience earlier this year at all. He connected to an extent as a wrestler. They gave him a shot to have more exposure. They gave him a Wrestlemania moment. They wanted to see more and he didn't deliver. Booking hasn't sabotaged them. They've knocked him down a few rungs on the roster because there are others doing better and more deserving of being higher than he is. Ryback was doing well, and getting good reactions, but there were safety concerns and they also wanted him to be able to demonstrate more of a personality as opposed to being a one-dimensional destroyer. His team with Axel allowed him to do that, and they've shot him right back up now he's made improvements in all areas. Ryder did well as a goof, but he never developed a serious side to his character. He's acknowledged that he has been told this is what he needed to do. He created a gimmick that had a little mileage but that screamed mid-card. Cesaro is not deserving of being higher up than anyone that is currently above him on the heel side at the moment. Of the guys operating as singles competitors, Luke Harper is doing better. Bray Wyatt is doing better. Rusev is doing better. There's Henry, Big Show and Kane, that have shown enough sides to their personalities over the year to be big stars that will always connect. If he can develop more sides to him, that Harper, Henry, Kane type level will be his next step. To you, a guy has the ability to succeed if he succeeds. He lacks the ability to succeed if he flounders. This is circular and non-falsifiable. It's a bad argument. You're never successfully distracting attention away from the fact that you think Vince McMahon has some kind of superpower at seeing people's "abilities," and he's set up a perfect meritocracy where the good thrive... and your evidence for it is that in the WWE in the past, some people have succeeded (which means they possessed the ability to do so) while other people have not done well (which means they didn't). That's so silly, and so bizarrely defensive of the status quo, I don't even know what to say about it. The other problem is, and I said this before, "ability to connect to an audience" ISN'T A THING. It by definition depends on the audience, first of all, and audiences are legion and everchanging. And, it depends on what you're doing. Even without your arbitrary limits on what "counts" as an ability to connect to the audience and what doesn't, different people will succeed in different situations. There isn't one thing. and FINALLY, I honestly can't get over your insistence that wrestlers need to be multifacted to succeed... while one of your pieces of evidence for that is the deep and rich characterization provided by freakin' RUSEV. Not only did megastars like Hulk Hogan and The Rock have the stupidest and simplest characters for their entire top run, but dude: if the bookers went with what worked, then the performers wouldn't all HAVE to be multifacted. You're actually, seriously defending bad booking because it handicaps the performers. The meritocracy fantasy is more important than putting on a good show. I make this line of argument because I'm willing to submit to the fact that Vince McMahon and a legion of other business decision makers know more than me about what they want to promote in their business, and what they think it takes to succeed. I will also submit to the fact that they have metrics that they use that may not be obvious to fans without all the information. Now, as fun as it may be for some people on here to rag on how the WWE are stoopid for whatever reason is griping them today, it's very simply a clear fact that they know more about what it takes to be a star in their company than we do. The amount of people that chalk it up to a company being stubborn is quite funny. As if a thriving business that represents the top of the industry simply cannot have certain metrics that they use, and instead the only logical explanation is that the business itself has a personality defect if they do something that a small percentage of fans disagree with. And the ability to connect with fans definitely is a thing. I don't know why this is so hard for you to admit. WWE has an audience that they want to cater to, and therefore want to promote stars that appeal to a mass audience, not a niche one. And I'm sure I made this point earlier but it got ignored. Look at Baron Corbin and look at Bull Dempsey, and tell me who is connecting better with the NXT audience. Baron Corbin had one match, in which he stood there while getting announced and squashed a guy in 5 seconds. Bull Dempsey had had numerous squash matches as well as a tag angle with Mojo Rawley and has been on the roster longer. Who is connecting better? It's Baron Corbin, because in this scaled down example he is connecting better. He has some intangible it factor that gives him a presence that makes him connect, where as Bull Dempsey has the look of a guy that is trying to connect but simply isn't doing as well. It most definitely is a thing. We've only seen Rusev for less than a year on the roster and in that time he's done extremely well. Frankly he's done better than Cesaro has. The presentation and the whole cocktail of his pairing with Lana has connected better than anything Cesaro has done with a mass market audience and that's why he continues to be promoted. By multi-faceted, I can't believe you don't understand my reasoning as to why someone like The Rock works in the context of the WWE. He can do the lame poop-humour, he can do genuinely hilarious segments, he can play arrogant heel, he can play white meat babyface, and he was extraordinary for the way he could cut a promo using his poop humour to run down his PPV opponent and then switch into serious mode to sell the match and remind everyone that not only was he a star, he was a competitor in this company too. He's a fantastic example of what works. The guys with the talent rise to the top in the WWE. And it's handled carefully so they know when they are promoting someone, it's because they deserve it. It isn't decided on a whim and care is taken to make sure any promotion is justified. For example everyone assumes the Bray Wyatt loss to Cena was bad booking, because it stopped his momentum. Only it didn't. He had done extraordinarily well to the point where he was trusted to be the heel against the company franchise at Wrestlemania. That was his job, and he proved himself so much through that programme, that he is now being elevated again. And further down the roster, everyone is judged on how they make use of their smaller minutes. Do well with them, you get a bit more time. Do well with that extra time, you get more angles, do well in the angles, you get a title run. There are clear examples of this in action every single week. Excuses are constantly made for performers that didn't have what it takes to rise beyond what was their true level in a company that markets to a mass audience. If they were connecting, they would be promoted. The status quo in the WWE in terms of how they decide who they promote is there because it works. If you are going to be more one-dimensional, you are never going to rise beyond a certain level. Everyone above Cesaro right now deserves to be there. He's a great talent that unfortunately for him has a roster full of great talent to compete with. If he was in the company in 2007 where they had little choice but to throw Snitsky out there to see if they could sell him as a credible monster threat that people would care about, he'd be in a better spot right now. But he simply isn't doing as well as the people above him right now, and that's why they are above him.
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Post by benstudd on Jan 1, 2015 19:43:55 GMT -5
You said it yourself, pairing him with Heyman was the kiss of death. Especially considering people hated Heyman's guts after he kept repeating his client beat the Streak. Yet these same people wanted to embrace Cesaro as the new hot face but couldn't because of it. It was a strange vibe and the fans didn't know how to react. So even the swing came off as forced. Also I've never seen him fumble the ball after Mania. They wanted him as a heel and he did a good job there. It just wasn't the place he should have been. And again the promos should not factor in, plenty of guys cannot talk, give him a guy that does them or just have him show up in the ring and dominates like he does best. It worked for Goldberg. The fact that someone cannot talk has nothing to do with the guy lacking the IT factor or not desiring to be a star. Every wrestlers have their strengths and weaknesses. Just hide the problems. At some point, he's going to need to talk to sell an angle, a match, or himself. You can hide it for so long before people start asking why they aren't talking. Ryback on Monday got promo time to introduce himself as more than a catchphrase spewing meathead. It wasn't perfect it it was effective enough to earn more fan support. Cesaro got a semi shoot promo to do and he stumbled a bit. Which hurts you if you got detractors like your boss. I watched Shelton viciously butchered a promo with Eric Bischoff and it spelled doom for his main event hopes. Genesis of McGullicutty ruined Curtis Axel's FCW golden boy status. Cesaro is currently in the Jerry Lynn: Starmaker role. He broke off from the Real Americans too soon without fleshing himself enough to work in a babyface role. With Heyman, he was just a body so Heyman had a reason to be on tv. Sure Heyman hyped him up, but Cesaro barely said a word. The mystique of Goldberg took a hit when he finally had to say more than "Who's next?". Goldberg wasn't terrible but I can't remember a memorable Goldberg promo. Again, there's plenty of ways to be involved in a storyline without having to talk.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 1, 2015 19:47:02 GMT -5
At some point, he's going to need to talk to sell an angle, a match, or himself. You can hide it for so long before people start asking why they aren't talking. Ryback on Monday got promo time to introduce himself as more than a catchphrase spewing meathead. It wasn't perfect it it was effective enough to earn more fan support. Cesaro got a semi shoot promo to do and he stumbled a bit. Which hurts you if you got detractors like your boss. I watched Shelton viciously butchered a promo with Eric Bischoff and it spelled doom for his main event hopes. Genesis of McGullicutty ruined Curtis Axel's FCW golden boy status. Cesaro is currently in the Jerry Lynn: Starmaker role. He broke off from the Real Americans too soon without fleshing himself enough to work in a babyface role. With Heyman, he was just a body so Heyman had a reason to be on tv. Sure Heyman hyped him up, but Cesaro barely said a word. The mystique of Goldberg took a hit when he finally had to say more than "Who's next?". Goldberg wasn't terrible but I can't remember a memorable Goldberg promo. Again, there's plenty of ways to be involved in a storyline without having to talk. Unless he's a mute or got a mime gimmick, he's going to have to talk. Maybe he should learn sign language.
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wcc2
AC Slater
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 1, 2015 19:49:17 GMT -5
You said it yourself, pairing him with Heyman was the kiss of death. Especially considering people hated Heyman's guts after he kept repeating his client beat the Streak. Yet these same people wanted to embrace Cesaro as the new hot face but couldn't because of it. It was a strange vibe and the fans didn't know how to react. So even the swing came off as forced. Also I've never seen him fumble the ball after Mania. They wanted him as a heel and he did a good job there. It just wasn't the place he should have been. And again the promos should not factor in, plenty of guys cannot talk, give him a guy that does them or just have him show up in the ring and dominates like he does best. It worked for Goldberg. The fact that someone cannot talk has nothing to do with the guy lacking the IT factor or not desiring to be a star. Every wrestlers have their strengths and weaknesses. Just hide the problems. At some point, he's going to need to talk to sell an angle, a match, or himself. You can hide it for so long before people start asking why they aren't talking. Ryback on Monday got promo time to introduce himself as more than a catchphrase spewing meathead. It wasn't perfect it it was effective enough to earn more fan support. Cesaro got a semi shoot promo to do and he stumbled a bit. Which hurts you if you got detractors like your boss. I watched Shelton viciously butchered a promo with Eric Bischoff and it spelled doom for his main event hopes. Genesis of McGullicutty ruined Curtis Axel's FCW golden boy status. Cesaro is currently in the Jerry Lynn: Starmaker role. He broke off from the Real Americans too soon without fleshing himself enough to work in a babyface role. With Heyman, he was just a body so Heyman had a reason to be on tv. Sure Heyman hyped him up, but Cesaro barely said a word. The mystique of Goldberg took a hit when he finally had to say more than "Who's next?". Goldberg wasn't terrible but I can't remember a memorable Goldberg promo. Goldberg is a really interesting name to bring up, in terms of how someone connects with the WWE audience. He was a one-note performer that didn't really flesh himself out beyond the initial thing that made him popular. People accused WWE of mishandling him by having him communicate with Goldust in a backstage segment, saying it just exposed Goldberg's weaknesses. And it's true, it did. But it's just his trial to see if they can get more out of him. That he fails at stuff like that means he would never be looked upon as someone the WWE truly needed to bank on beyond his year run, once they had gotten the possible dream matches out of the way. Compare Goldberg to someone like Booker T. Why has Booker T faired so much better in the WWE? Why were they so interested in picking up Booker T when they bought out WCW? He's a multi-faceted performer. He has a personality that can connect. He can be serious but he can also go the complete other way with something like King Bookeh and so a load of stuff in between, hence being a commodity that works well in an environment like WWE. If they gave Daniel Bryan the anger management segments and Bryan totally floundered in them, couldn't adapt and wasn't funny, then I guarantee this forum would have a load of people saying that it's WWE's fault, they mis-managed him and he should go back to the indies where he can concentrate on being a wrestler. They'd say that WWE lost the opportunity for a massive star. Only the reality of it is, Bryan works in the WWE because he can be given something like the whole anger management angle and make it work, because he's a multi-faceted performer, and that allowed him to flesh out his personality as well as demonstrate skills that made him worthy of being in the Summerslam main event, and ultimately Wrestlemania. He made it work, hence the company gives him more opportunity, and he delivers. Cesaro just hasn't demonstrated enough top class WWE type qualities yet to deserve being any higher than he is.
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wcc2
AC Slater
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 1, 2015 19:50:51 GMT -5
At some point, he's going to need to talk to sell an angle, a match, or himself. You can hide it for so long before people start asking why they aren't talking. Ryback on Monday got promo time to introduce himself as more than a catchphrase spewing meathead. It wasn't perfect it it was effective enough to earn more fan support. Cesaro got a semi shoot promo to do and he stumbled a bit. Which hurts you if you got detractors like your boss. I watched Shelton viciously butchered a promo with Eric Bischoff and it spelled doom for his main event hopes. Genesis of McGullicutty ruined Curtis Axel's FCW golden boy status. Cesaro is currently in the Jerry Lynn: Starmaker role. He broke off from the Real Americans too soon without fleshing himself enough to work in a babyface role. With Heyman, he was just a body so Heyman had a reason to be on tv. Sure Heyman hyped him up, but Cesaro barely said a word. The mystique of Goldberg took a hit when he finally had to say more than "Who's next?". Goldberg wasn't terrible but I can't remember a memorable Goldberg promo. Again, there's plenty of ways to be involved in a storyline without having to talk. But that means he'll never be above a certain level within the company then, because everyone above him right now can talk as well as connect well with ring work and character development. What is the justification that he should be any higher than he is? And who should be demoted to make way for him?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 1, 2015 19:52:08 GMT -5
Again, there's plenty of ways to be involved in a storyline without having to talk. But that means he'll never be above a certain level within the company then, because everyone above him right now can talk as well as connect well with ring work and character development. What is the justification that he should be any higher than he is? And who should be demoted to make way for him? No one has to be demoted for him. Right now WWE is lacking in quality heels. Right now it's Rollins, Kane, Big Show and then everyone else. Cesaro should be moved up by default.
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