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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 20:12:40 GMT -5
It's not about who exactly. It needs to happen. The big mistake is that he didn't have any real problems with the people you listed. At some point, someone should've been competition for the guy to make the super push less transparent.
The guy has to show weakness at some point.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jan 3, 2015 20:14:58 GMT -5
Has anybody noticed that Roman looks like a broke ass Ice-T?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 3, 2015 20:16:08 GMT -5
It's not about who exactly. It needs to happen. The big mistake is that he didn't have any real problems with the people you listed. At some point, someone should've been competition for the guy to make the super push less transparent. The guy has to show weakness at some point. But that's part of the reason why I like the idea of Reigns vs Lesnar. To strong guys who apparently have no weaknesses just trying to kill each other and seeing who the top dog is.
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Post by Stu on Jan 3, 2015 20:20:43 GMT -5
It's not about who exactly. It needs to happen. The big mistake is that he didn't have any real problems with the people you listed. At some point, someone should've been competition for the guy to make the super push less transparent. The guy has to show weakness at some point. But that's part of the reason why I like the idea of Reigns vs Lesnar. To strong guys who apparently have no weaknesses just trying to kill each other and seeing who the top dog is. None of that means much if the man behind the character isn't up to par, and that's what people are concerned about. For example, Goldberg had a manufactured win streak way back when and he was portrayed as an unstoppable beast. But he still didn't have the years of experience that others have had, and that affected him on and off camera. The same could happen with Reigns at this point. It's not that people don't want Reigns to be champion at all; they just don't want him to be champion yet. They want him to gain sufficient experience so that he becomes a skilled professional on and off camera. At this point, people just aren't confident he's there yet.
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wcc2
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 3, 2015 20:31:28 GMT -5
gotta agree with lonewolf here, people are really using opinions and stating them as fact. You can't say 'He isn't ready' is an informed opinion, because it just isn't.
The guy can work a WWE style match. The guy can cut promos that suit his character. The guy has an unteachable presence. He is over with the crowd, and has been consistently for a while now. If they choose to push him, he's got enough about him to justify being ready.
I would have a gripe with Reigns beating Lesnar at Mania too early in that he's not really had the star-making angle that propels him to that level. Batista had a great story with HHH. Triple H himself had a fantastic story with his TV marriage to Steph. Orton had a great story around him when he won the Rumble in 09. Rollins last segment on Raw felt like a real star making turn even. I feel like if Reigns is going to be the guy, he needs to be the focus of a story, rather than winning the whole thing and dethroning the beast, just because. There has to be a reason why he suddenly grows up to a level they haven't even let Cena be, if they are going to have Reigns win.
That's my only gripe on Reigns, but for all I know the company is planning on constructing that angle as we speak. People on this forum are talking about the fact that Reigns, the guy, isn't ready, and that this is fact, based on nothing but their opinion. Which is all the more bizzare considering he's clearly doing well with the crowd and has so many skills a WWE main eventer needs. People really want to shoehorn Reigns into the role of 'corporate push that backfires' and are so certain it will happen, despite nothing really suggesting it will.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 3, 2015 20:41:45 GMT -5
gotta agree with lonewolf here, people are really using opinions and stating them as fact. You can't say 'He isn't ready' is an informed opinion, because it just isn't. The guy can work a WWE style match. The guy can cut promos that suit his character. The guy has an unteachable presence. He is over with the crowd, and has been consistently for a while now. If they choose to push him, he's got enough about him to justify being ready. I would have a gripe with Reigns beating Lesnar at Mania too early in that he's not really had the star-making angle that propels him to that level. Batista had a great story with HHH. Triple H himself had a fantastic story with his TV marriage to Steph. Orton had a great story around him when he won the Rumble in 09. Rollins last segment on Raw felt like a real star making turn even. I feel like if Reigns is going to be the guy, he needs to be the focus of a story, rather than winning the whole thing and dethroning the beast, just because. There has to be a reason why he suddenly grows up to a level they haven't even let Cena be, if they are going to have Reigns win. That's my only gripe on Reigns, but for all I know the company is planning on constructing that angle as we speak. People on this forum are talking about the fact that Reigns, the guy, isn't ready, and that this is fact, based on nothing but their opinion. Which is all the more bizzare considering he's clearly doing well with the crowd and has so many skills a WWE main eventer needs. People really want to shoehorn Reigns into the role of 'corporate push that backfires' and are so certain it will happen, despite nothing really suggesting it will. Well WWE can put that to the test to end all doubt. Here's what they should do. Put Bryan and Reigns in the Rumble. Have Bryan eliminated and Reigns win. Then we can see the results. I wonder, what will happen?
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 3, 2015 20:43:23 GMT -5
gotta agree with lonewolf here, people are really using opinions and stating them as fact. You can't say 'He isn't ready' is an informed opinion, because it just isn't. The guy can work a WWE style match. The guy can cut promos that suit his character. The guy has an unteachable presence. He is over with the crowd, and has been consistently for a while now. If they choose to push him, he's got enough about him to justify being ready. I would have a gripe with Reigns beating Lesnar at Mania too early in that he's not really had the star-making angle that propels him to that level. Batista had a great story with HHH. Triple H himself had a fantastic story with his TV marriage to Steph. Orton had a great story around him when he won the Rumble in 09. Rollins last segment on Raw felt like a real star making turn even. I feel like if Reigns is going to be the guy, he needs to be the focus of a story, rather than winning the whole thing and dethroning the beast, just because. There has to be a reason why he suddenly grows up to a level they haven't even let Cena be, if they are going to have Reigns win. That's my only gripe on Reigns, but for all I know the company is planning on constructing that angle as we speak. People on this forum are talking about the fact that Reigns, the guy, isn't ready, and that this is fact, based on nothing but their opinion. Which is all the more bizzare considering he's clearly doing well with the crowd and has so many skills a WWE main eventer needs. People really want to shoehorn Reigns into the role of 'corporate push that backfires' and are so certain it will happen, despite nothing really suggesting it will. Well WWE can put that to the test to end all doubt. Here's what they should do. Put Bryan and Reigns in the Rumble. Have Bryan eliminated and Reigns win. Then we can see the results. I wonder, what will happen? That test is flawed since it'll only be in one city, and considering which city it is I would say that it's something that won't be typical of every single crowd. That's not say nowhere else would have the same reaction, but I don't like Philadelphia is the one to base overall popularity on
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jan 3, 2015 20:44:07 GMT -5
I feel like making "f*** with Roman Reigns Day" a FAN holiday would defuse the tension.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 3, 2015 20:48:01 GMT -5
I feel like making "f*** with Roman Reigns Day" a FAN holiday would defuse the tension. I don't think I'll partake in that celebration.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 3, 2015 20:50:28 GMT -5
Well WWE can put that to the test to end all doubt. Here's what they should do. Put Bryan and Reigns in the Rumble. Have Bryan eliminated and Reigns win. Then we can see the results. I wonder, what will happen? That test is flawed since it'll only be in one city, and considering which city it is I would say that it's something that won't be typical of every single crowd. That's not say nowhere else would have the same reaction, but I don't like Philadelphia is the one to base overall popularity on Extend the test then. Put him in the main event of Wrestlemania, where he beats Lesnar and wins the title. Unless of course Santa Clara would also fall into the unreliable response catagory too.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 3, 2015 20:52:05 GMT -5
That test is flawed since it'll only be in one city, and considering which city it is I would say that it's something that won't be typical of every single crowd. That's not say nowhere else would have the same reaction, but I don't like Philadelphia is the one to base overall popularity on Extend the test then. Put him in the main event of Wrestlemania, where he beats Lesnar and wins the title. Unless of course Santa Clara would also fall into the unreliable response catagory too. If they boo him against Lesnar then they're dumb since it'd clearly be moreso out of spite at that point. You don't boo a guy because you don't think he's ready. Then again Cena gets booed at every Mania and he's by far the most popular guy on the roster so maybe it'd be good for Reigns
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Post by Stu on Jan 3, 2015 20:53:50 GMT -5
I feel like making "f*** with Roman Reigns Day" a FAN holiday would defuse the tension. Batista has thousands of memes and he never got a "EFF with Batista Day." As far as I know, the only one for Reigns is "Internet movie" and that's still in its infancy.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 3, 2015 20:55:51 GMT -5
Extend the test then. Put him in the main event of Wrestlemania, where he beats Lesnar and wins the title. Unless of course Santa Clara would also fall into the unreliable response catagory too. If they boo him against Lesnar then they're dumb since it'd clearly be moreso out of spite at that point. You don't boo a guy because you don't think he's ready. Then again Cena gets booed at every Mania and he's by far the most popular guy on the roster so maybe it'd be good for Reigns I see So the Philly response will be unreliable, and the Santa Clara response, if negative, is dumb and spiteful. All the bases are being covered here.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Jan 3, 2015 20:57:57 GMT -5
This is another one of those things that gets said often and presented as Tyson Kidd's catchphrase. Roman Reigns isn't booked as some incredibly dominant, near invincible juggernaut who just mows through opponents with ease. Folks act like he's booked like prime Lesnar when he's actually booked as someone that can hang with and hold his own against main eventers (a large of The Shield's whole deal btw) and is able to defeat them with a spear if he catches them sleepin'. To say he "has to show weakness at some point" is ignoring reality or maybe you missed the beatings he's taken or the times his second wind got cut off. Hell, the guy just had a match where he was having a hard time with Fandango. I want the word "fact" to be filtered to this sentence.
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wcc2
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 3, 2015 20:59:24 GMT -5
Extend the test then. Put him in the main event of Wrestlemania, where he beats Lesnar and wins the title. Unless of course Santa Clara would also fall into the unreliable response catagory too. If they boo him against Lesnar then they're dumb since it'd clearly be moreso out of spite at that point. You don't boo a guy because you don't think he's ready. Then again Cena gets booed at every Mania and he's by far the most popular guy on the roster so maybe it'd be good for Reigns Indeed, Mania itself has become a smarky event and I think think the company will measure response over a number of different cities, but also with a number of different metrics. I think there's a good chance they go with Bryan winning though, as they probably feel there is mileage that they are still yet to realise with him in the title picture. For all we know Reigns has been built up as an emergency back up in case Bryan couldn't get back in time, and actually the company is completely comfortable with allowing him more of a slow build. It hasn't stopped people talking as if he's been shoved down our throats and booed out of the building before Wrestlemania has happened though.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 3, 2015 20:59:46 GMT -5
If they boo him against Lesnar then they're dumb since it'd clearly be moreso out of spite at that point. You don't boo a guy because you don't think he's ready. Then again Cena gets booed at every Mania and he's by far the most popular guy on the roster so maybe it'd be good for Reigns I see So the Philly response will be unreliable, and the Santa Clara response, if negative, is dumb and spiteful. All the bases are being covered here. If Reigns goes from cheered to booed for no reason other than because he's main eventing, then yes it's out of spite. If you don't "think he's ready" it should imply that you like the guy and are trying to protect his career. You don't protect a guy's career by booing him during the biggest moment of his life. And the reason why Mania crowds are also whatever is because of how many hardcore fans fly in from both all over the US and other countries. PLENTY of guys who are popular and get cheered all the time get booed at Mania. Big Show got booed at Mania last year, Randy Orton's been booed at Mania, Cena gets booed at every Mania. I would hope though that Reigns, who hasn't been booed yet wouldn't all of a sudden get booed for no reason other than because he's main eventing
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wcc2
AC Slater
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 3, 2015 21:00:43 GMT -5
This is another one of those things that gets said often and presented as Tyson Kidd's catchphrase. Roman Reigns isn't booked as some incredibly dominant, near invincible juggernaut who just mows through opponents with ease. Folks act like he's booked like prime Lesnar when he's actually booked as someone that can hang with and hold his own against main eventers (a large of The Shield's whole deal btw) and is able to defeat them with a spear if he catches them sleepin'. To say he "has to show weakness at some point" is ignoring reality or maybe you missed the beatings he's taken or the times his second wind got cut off. Hell, the guy just had a match where he was having a hard time with Fandango. Another good point, and I think earlier in this thread (or maybe another one of the Reigns threads) you have people complaining he is selling for Fandango. So what should it be?
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 3, 2015 21:03:11 GMT -5
Well WWE can put that to the test to end all doubt. Here's what they should do. Put Bryan and Reigns in the Rumble. Have Bryan eliminated and Reigns win. Then we can see the results. I wonder, what will happen? That test is flawed since it'll only be in one city, and considering which city it is I would say that it's something that won't be typical of every single crowd. That's not say nowhere else would have the same reaction, but I don't like Philadelphia is the one to base overall popularity on I am 99% positive you said this last year after the Rumble, EC, and every RAW even after Bryan got put in the main event. Nothing changed in how the crowd wanted things last year so why keep waiting for things to change (should Reigns get rejected) when there is proof people want Bryan going back 18 months? You don't like him or want him near the main event, that is your right but to keep acting like he doesn't belong or hasn't earned the right to be in the main event despite everything that has happened is more than tiring. The man is the most over wrestler in WWE and has been going into Summerslam 2013.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 3, 2015 21:04:08 GMT -5
Not necessarily.
They may like Reigns in a certain spot on the card for now, but it doesn't mean they want him in a spot that they'd prefer another wrestler to be in.
Protecting his career is WWE's responsibility, not the fans.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jan 3, 2015 21:08:06 GMT -5
That test is flawed since it'll only be in one city, and considering which city it is I would say that it's something that won't be typical of every single crowd. That's not say nowhere else would have the same reaction, but I don't like Philadelphia is the one to base overall popularity on I am 99% positive you said this last year after the Rumble, EC, and every RAW even after Bryan got put in the main event. Nothing changed in how the crowd wanted things last year so why keep waiting for things to change (should Reigns get rejected) when there is proof people want Bryan going back 18 months? You don't like him or want him near the main event, that is your right but to keep acting like he doesn't belong or hasn't earned the right to be in the main event despite everything that has happened is more than tiring. The man is the most over wrestler in WWE and has been going into Summerslam 2013. I've always said that Bryan's fine, I like the guy. He's in my f***ing avatar for crying out loud. It's all about timing and I've said multiple times too that Bryan will be champion again and get the title at some point, but I didn't like the timing. I don't like him as much as other people sure, but it doesn't mean I hate the guy. Last year what I said was that everyone was basing their reactions based off of two crowds and using that to act like Bryan was the most over person in WWE history (there WERE threads about this). Those crowds being the one where he turned face again or whatever, and one in his hometown which really doesn't mean much. I said that Bryan's reactions otherwise were no better than say CM Punk's at the time, so saying he was by far the most popular based on those two reactions was flawed.
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